Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Where do you get that this "contradicts other things Jesus said"??? Please support your claim.

"The dead KNOW NOT ANYTHING" says Solomon.

Here's a fresh thought for you. The dead do NOT know what's going on in THIS world. Rev 6:10 shows that they DO know a lot of things in heaven.

However, these dead in this parable seem to know a boatload of stuff.

It isn't a parable. And, yes, the conscious dead still know where they are and where their relatives are.

You are unteachable. You have been given clear explanations of why there isn't any such thing as soul sleep. But you prefer your own opinions, or whoever taught you these things.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Should we believe you or Jesus?

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Quick note on this phrase: since John clearly mentioned the passage of time (day and night - 24 hours), immediately followed by "forever and ever", he was very clearly saying that those thrown into the lake of fire will experience torment for the passage of time being forever.

 

[awelight]

The popular yet erroneous teaching about Rich Man and Lazarus has succeeded to both strike fear in the hearts of Christians and drive countless others to atheism, because those who refuse to recognize this passage in Luke 16 as the parable that it is use it to advance the false idea of Eternal Torment - a doctrine of devils - because they know then can't substantiate a doctrine on an uninterpreted parable. Here's the other side of the story:

I will keep this short.

Eternal Torment was taught by all of the old preachers and commentators because that is what Scripture teaches. This recent attempt to get rid of Eternal Punishment is pure hogwash. It is an attempt to bring humanistic thinking, human science and human philosophy into Scripture.

If one sins, he sins against an eternal God. Since God is eternal, that sin is eternally with God. Therefore if it is not eternally covered over by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, then the just punishment is eternal.

If you want to believe that punishment is just obliteration, even though I don't see how that is better, then you are going to be in for a real surprise for eternity.

 

[TheLearner]

Context matters.

Matthew 25:46
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Death is an eternal punishment. This doesn’t say eternal punishing. Furthermore, only the righteous receive eternal life, but you seem you be saying that the unrighteousness receive eternal life, too, forever being punished. Amazing how the proof verse you provided contradicts you.

James defines death as seperation of body and spirit brother. By whatever it is called, seperation from God would be defined as death.

 

[TheLearner]

It doesn’t say why someone put him down. Maybe he was given a ride there on a donkey, as a kind of taxi service, and dropped off there? There are other possibilities than him being a cripple. You don’t seem to be considering any other option than trying to force the scripture to make the beggar unable to walk or work.

All art of him shows him as handicap and weak. Christian Texts outside the Bible says he is a lepard. With that disease, losing body parts happens.

 

[TheLearner]

He’s begging at a gate rather than working. What’s your definition of lazy?

a lazy person would not even get out of bed to beg. If he was a lepar, no one will hire him.

 

[TheLearner]

I agree 100%. At the moment I’m supportive of Conditional Immortality. Eternal conscious torment is definitely not in the Bible. I found that this is a great book on the subject.

Matthew 25 and Luke 16 disagrees with you.

 

[TheLearner]

I agree 100%. At the moment I’m supportive of Conditional Immortality. Eternal conscious torment is definitely not in the Bible. I found that this is a great book on the subject.

Yes, that is a very funny book indeed.

 

[TheLearner]

I didn't say that he said he wasn't given food. I am just pointing out the facts. FreeGrace2, I think your thoughts about me are causing you to project a bit of your desperation to find fault with me. Slow down.

I did not say he was not given food brother. It is likely from the hardness of heart the rich man did not given him any food, but we were not there.

 

[TheLearner]

pick up at #2,299

 

[TheLearner]

If you're wrong about this then that's tantamount to calling God an atheist. I can't think of many other things more blasphemous than that. Let me remind you that God has repeatedly said in scripture that souls can die.

And, when given an resurrected body it would be like the one in I Cor 15. There is no reference to the wicked not getting that kind of body? or is the body of them spelled out somewhere, friend.
Please answer in this thread https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...t-the-resurrected-body-of-the-unsaved.205058/

 

[FreeGrace2]

Runningman said:
He’s begging at a gate rather than working. What’s your definition of lazy?

a lazy person would not even get out of bed to beg. If he was a lepar, no one will hire him.

He's just looking for excuses to falsely judge him. What is clear is that he was poor, and put down at the gate. That's all we know about him. The other poster simply judged him falsely without any evidence.

But, regardless, Lazarus ended up literally in Abraham's bosom, the other title of Paradise, where Jesus went when He died. The point of the account is that there are no second chances after death.

 

[Mitaze1075]

Yes, that is a very funny book indeed.

Ahh…

Yes, that is a very funny book indeed.

so you read it?

 

[FreeGrace2]

"The dead KNOW NOT ANYTHING" says Solomon. However, these dead in this parable seem to know a boatload of stuff.

Do you have an explanation for WHY Jesus said this to one of the thieves on the cross:

Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” Luke 23:43

If every person who dies is in soul sleep, why would Jesus tell someone they would be with Him in Paradise, the SAME place Jesus said Lazarus went when he died? If everyone is asleep, why would Jesus make up a story about the dead being conscious?

These are questions soul sleepers cannot answer.

 

[Mitaze1075]

Do you have an explanation for WHY Jesus said this to one of the thieves on the cross:

Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” Luke 23:43

If every person who dies is in soul sleep, why would Jesus tell someone they would be with Him in Paradise, the SAME place Jesus said Lazarus went when he died? If everyone is asleep, why would Jesus make up a story about the dead being conscious?

These are questions soul sleepers cannot answer.

Paradise is simply a term for soul sleep of the righteous. Jesus was dead three days and came back. That man died that day as well. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is just that. A parable.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Paradise is simply a term for soul sleep of the righteous.

How do you know this?

Jesus was dead three days and came back. That man died that day as well.

Why would Jesus tell someone who was about to go to sleep where he would be? Why does it matter where ANY soul goes if they are simply sleeping and unconscious? All of this makes no sense.

And Jesus didn't go to sleep. He went to "preach to the spirits in prison". How do you do that while asleep?

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is just that. A parable.

Why would Jesus tell a totally FALSE and made up story that isn't even possible if soul sleep is real?

It isn't a parable. It is a glimpse of the afterlife. And the teaching is that there are no second chances. Even some believers think there will be a second chance for everyone.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jesus was dead three days and came back. That man died that day as well.

1 Pet 3:19 - in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison,

When do you think Jesus went to the spirits in prison? After He died. If there is soul sleep, how does this make sense?

 

[TheLearner]

Ahh…

so you read it?

Years ago, friend

try free trail https://www.perlego.com/book/249109...study-of-the-doctrine-of-final-punishment-pdf

 

[Duckybill]

I understand those who are ignorant of the proper meaning and use of words often draw wrong conclusions, and is why they are seduced by the demonic doctrine of "eternal torment".

Honest scholars who believe as you do will admit "forever" in the Greek usage of the word doesn't always mean "without end" --- and the "eternal/everlasting fire" with which Sodom and Gomorrah was burned is no longer burning, seeing that both cities are under the Dead Sea.

And I understand those like you trying to rewrite our Bible.

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Duckybill]

Quick note on this phrase: since John clearly mentioned the passage of time (day and night - 24 hours), immediately followed by "forever and ever", he was very clearly saying that those thrown into the lake of fire will experience torment for the passage of time being forever.

Amen! Forever.