If YESUAH says that the wicked is gather FIRST, WHY ARE some people looking for a rapture,??? Who does the say was taken in the flood.???
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Yes he's alive. The body of Christ is the bible. Not trying to derail.... carry on. 
Um....what?
Jesus himself said after His resurrection: “See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have” (Luke 24:39).
And just what did Thomas put his fingers into? (John 20:27)
The one taken/left is clearly the rspture.
It is framed "before the flood"
And ends "watch therefore you know not what hour Jesus comes"
Not only that but it aligns with 50% TAKEN in mat 25.
Both gatherings are 50%.
Both gatherings are the rapture.
Plus if those gathered are wicked,then we need 3 components to be true.
1) those left behind to be righteous.
...which is rediculous because you have a satan worshipper with the mark of the beast in bed with a believer.
2) the "one taken/left" event to be AFTER the flood.(after the 7 yr trib)
Which is OPPOSITE of scripture.
3)you need a setting of war,and destroyed earth,since you are transposing the event to the end of the GT.
The "one taken" event is a peacetime event. Every component lines up with a pretrib rapture.
EVERY COMPONENT.
Where did this "one taken/left" scripture get side tracked into "wicked taken"?
Nothing of that concept fits.
It is framed "before the flood"
And ends "watch therefore you know not what hour Jesus comes"
Not only that but it aligns with 50% TAKEN in mat 25.
Both gatherings are 50%.
Both gatherings are the rapture.
Plus if those gathered are wicked,then we need 3 components to be true.
1) those left behind to be righteous.
...which is rediculous because you have a satan worshipper with the mark of the beast in bed with a believer.
2) the "one taken/left" event to be AFTER the flood.(after the 7 yr trib)
Which is OPPOSITE of scripture.
3)you need a setting of war,and destroyed earth,since you are transposing the event to the end of the GT.
The "one taken" event is a peacetime event. Every component lines up with a pretrib rapture.
EVERY COMPONENT.
Where did this "one taken/left" scripture get side tracked into "wicked taken"?
Nothing of that concept fits.
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^ Here's a post I made in the past, on this Subject currently under discussion:
[quoting old post]
Okay, but I was speaking specifically of the verses Isaiah 24:21-22a with Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 [/ His Second Coming to the earth]"
So, ^ in Revelation 19:21a (one of the verses I pointed out) it says "and the remnant were SLAIN" (i.e. they DIE). This is what verse 22 means in Isaiah 24 where it says [see verse 22]:
The remnant is the ones that took the mark of the Beast, They are the ones that are alive and lost at YESUAH second coming, they will be slain by the Brightness of YESUAH Coming, the BIBLE SAYS that they will be food for the birds, the BIBLE SAYS,
Isaiah 24 -
21 In that day the LORD will punish
the host of heaven above,
and the kings of the earth below. [<--COMPARE with Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (at His 2nd Coming to the earth)]
These are not in Heaven, These are the angels that was cast out with Satan, they are here on Earth, and will be destroyed with ALL the lost, from the beginning of earth to the end of the earth.
22 They will be gathered together
like prisoners in a pit.
They will be confined to a dungeon They are DEAD, the dungeon is that they are in is death .
ECC 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.
This is distinct from what Revelation 20:11-15 says specifically, that "and death and hades delivered [/gave] up the dead" (v.13).
This is at YESUAH 3rd Coming, when New Jerusalem comes down from GOD out of HEAVEN, after the !000 years
The "pit" is not "the lake of fire," see. (the "pit" is equivalent to "death [and/or] the grave," see).
This is when YESUAH destroys the wicked at HIS second coming with the brightness of HIS coming, And takes all of HIS saints TO Heaven for the 1000 years, And the earth will be without form and void and on sun for the 1000 years years GOD people are in HEAVEN,
NOTICE that this will not be A full end of the Earth,
4:20 Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, [and] my curtains in a moment.
4:21 How long shall I see the standard, [and] hear the sound of the trumpet?
4:22 For my people [is] foolish, they have not known me; they [are] sottish children, and they have none understanding: they [are] wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, [it was] without form, and void; and the heavens, and they [had] no light.
4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
4:25 I beheld, and, lo, [there was] no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place [was] a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, [and] by his fierce anger.
4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken [it], I have purposed [it], and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
4:29 The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city [shall be] forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.
"But the rest of the dead lived not again UNTIL,"... see [they go to or remain in the "pit" ('death and/or the grave') UNTIL... Until the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words, the one in Isaiah 24:22b ("and AFTER MANY DAYS shall they be PUNISHED" [ = the later GWTj point in time, Rev20:11-15] )]
This is ALL the LOST that are dead from the beginning to the END of the earth, That will be resurrected when the New Jerusalem, Comes DOWN from GOD out of Heaven, With the saints in it, all the lost will be resurrected And will surround the city, AND GOD will rain down fire from GOD out of Heaven And punish them for their sins, and Satan and all HIS fallen Angels, with all the lost and will bring them to ashes upon the ground, And the saints will tread down their ashes after they have burnt up,
MAL 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.
Re: "the pit" and "the grave" (basically meaning "death"... not that someone's BODY necessarily had to have been "buried" in the ground! [see again the word "SLAIN" in Rev19:21]--recall the verse, Lk12:20, "20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?"--means the person DIED but doesn't really speak as to "what has happened to the person's BODY"... coz that's not what the Subject is centered on, here [it is basically irrelevant to what is being talked about there, in that verse])
This great is time, YESUAH was just looking in the future, while they are being punish
Isaiah 38:18 -
"For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth."
ECC 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.
Ezekiel 28:8 -
"They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas."
This is Satan being destroyed with all the lost, Water = A lot of people in the BIBLE and in prophecy
Ezekiel 31:14 -
"[...]: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit."
This is the LOST again
[I see this also as equivalent to the phrase "cast into outer darkness" which will take place at the time of His Second Coming to the earth, in that, those to whom this phrase pertains will NOT be entering the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (aka 'the age [singular] to come') to enjoy it]
THE 1000 years will be in heaven, all the lost are dead, no one is alive on the earth, But Satan and HIS devils,
The chain is that there are no one on earth to temp or try to get them to sin. For all the lost is dead, And all the saved is in Heaven.
GOD bless as GOD sees GOOD for you All
[end quoting old post]
____________
Hope that made some sense.
[quoting old post]
Okay, but I was speaking specifically of the verses Isaiah 24:21-22a with Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 [/ His Second Coming to the earth]"
So, ^ in Revelation 19:21a (one of the verses I pointed out) it says "and the remnant were SLAIN" (i.e. they DIE). This is what verse 22 means in Isaiah 24 where it says [see verse 22]:
The remnant is the ones that took the mark of the Beast, They are the ones that are alive and lost at YESUAH second coming, they will be slain by the Brightness of YESUAH Coming, the BIBLE SAYS that they will be food for the birds, the BIBLE SAYS,
Isaiah 24 -
21 In that day the LORD will punish
the host of heaven above,
and the kings of the earth below. [<--COMPARE with Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (at His 2nd Coming to the earth)]
These are not in Heaven, These are the angels that was cast out with Satan, they are here on Earth, and will be destroyed with ALL the lost, from the beginning of earth to the end of the earth.
22 They will be gathered together
like prisoners in a pit.
They will be confined to a dungeon They are DEAD, the dungeon is that they are in is death .
ECC 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.
This is distinct from what Revelation 20:11-15 says specifically, that "and death and hades delivered [/gave] up the dead" (v.13).
This is at YESUAH 3rd Coming, when New Jerusalem comes down from GOD out of HEAVEN, after the !000 years
The "pit" is not "the lake of fire," see.
(the "pit" is equivalent to "death [and/or] the grave," see). This is when YESUAH destroys the wicked at HIS second coming with the brightness of HIS coming, And takes all of HIS saints TO Heaven for the 1000 years, And the earth will be without form and void and on sun for the 1000 years years GOD people are in HEAVEN,
NOTICE that this will not be A full end of the Earth,
4:20 Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, [and] my curtains in a moment.
4:21 How long shall I see the standard, [and] hear the sound of the trumpet?
4:22 For my people [is] foolish, they have not known me; they [are] sottish children, and they have none understanding: they [are] wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, [it was] without form, and void; and the heavens, and they [had] no light.
4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
4:25 I beheld, and, lo, [there was] no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place [was] a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, [and] by his fierce anger.
4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken [it], I have purposed [it], and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
4:29 The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city [shall be] forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.
"But the rest of the dead lived not again UNTIL,"... see
[they go to or remain in the "pit" ('death and/or the grave') UNTIL... Until the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words, the one in Isaiah 24:22b ("and AFTER MANY DAYS shall they be PUNISHED" [ = the later GWTj point in time, Rev20:11-15] )]This is ALL the LOST that are dead from the beginning to the END of the earth, That will be resurrected when the New Jerusalem, Comes DOWN from GOD out of Heaven, With the saints in it, all the lost will be resurrected And will surround the city, AND GOD will rain down fire from GOD out of Heaven And punish them for their sins, and Satan and all HIS fallen Angels, with all the lost and will bring them to ashes upon the ground, And the saints will tread down their ashes after they have burnt up,
MAL 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.
Re: "the pit" and "the grave" (basically meaning "death"... not that someone's BODY necessarily had to have been "buried" in the ground! [see again the word "SLAIN" in Rev19:21]--recall the verse, Lk12:20, "20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?"--means the person DIED but doesn't really speak as to "what has happened to the person's BODY"... coz that's not what the Subject is centered on, here [it is basically irrelevant to what is being talked about there, in that verse])
This great is time, YESUAH was just looking in the future, while they are being punish
Isaiah 38:18 -
"For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth."
ECC 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.
Ezekiel 28:8 -
"They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas."
This is Satan being destroyed with all the lost, Water = A lot of people in the BIBLE and in prophecy
Ezekiel 31:14 -
"[...]: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit."
This is the LOST again
[I see this also as equivalent to the phrase "cast into outer darkness" which will take place at the time of His Second Coming to the earth, in that, those to whom this phrase pertains will NOT be entering the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (aka 'the age [singular] to come') to enjoy it]
THE 1000 years will be in heaven, all the lost are dead, no one is alive on the earth, But Satan and HIS devils,
The chain is that there are no one on earth to temp or try to get them to sin. For all the lost is dead, And all the saved is in Heaven.
GOD bless as GOD sees GOOD for you All
[end quoting old post]
____________
Hope that made some sense.
Well, all I can say to that, bud62, is that you are (for the second time I am aware of) simply not tracking with the points I am actually making ... and I think this is partly because you've got it set in your mind that Revelation 19:15b is speaking of "UP IN Heaven"
[15b - "... and He SHALL [FUTURE tense] shepherd/rule them [/the nations] with a rod/sceptre [see also Heb1:8] of iron [righteousness and strength]..." (NATIONS are "on the earth"... "out-of [ek] all the nations" is a different story, I would say, however )... I think we differ on some of the CHRONOLOGY issues... which is a common thing to differ on, since many folks tend to overlook such issues in the Bible and consider such "references" to this as unimportant]
Oh well... nice talkin with you, bud62, thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter. = ) I do think you've missed my points though... and, for that, I'm kinda bummed. = )
... and I think this is partly because you've got it set in your mind that Revelation 19:15b is speaking of "UP IN Heaven"[15b - "... and He SHALL [FUTURE tense] shepherd/rule them [/the nations] with a rod/sceptre [see also Heb1:8] of iron [righteousness and strength]..." (NATIONS are "on the earth"... "out-of [ek] all the nations" is a different story, I would say, however
)... I think we differ on some of the CHRONOLOGY issues... which is a common thing to differ on, since many folks tend to overlook such issues in the Bible and consider such "references" to this as unimportant]Oh well... nice talkin with you, bud62, thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter. = ) I do think you've missed my points though... and, for that, I'm kinda bummed. = )
B
We will start with this, how could a person being raptured turn back for something?
But the real story there is.
“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place— let the reader understand— then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days! Moreover, pray that when you flee, it will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again.
Matthew 24:15-21 NASB2020
Notice those who are in Judea are to flee to the mountains. No rapture involved.
But the real story there is.
“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place— let the reader understand— then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days! Moreover, pray that when you flee, it will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again.
Matthew 24:15-21 NASB2020
Notice those who are in Judea are to flee to the mountains. No rapture involved.
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But nobody is "left" in the Parable of the Tares. BOTH are harvested (Matthew 13:30; "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.")
There are THREE "gatherings" in this Parable.
Your question was very valid. I'm sorry you walked away from it.
There are THREE "gatherings" in this Parable.
- The Tares are gathered first
- The Wheat is gathered second
- Out of Christ's Kingdom, that which offends is gathered third
Your question was very valid. I'm sorry you walked away from it.
But you did not ask who is "protected". You pointed out that our Lord Jesus said that the tares are gathered FIRST. That is true. Why?
And you are incorrect about Noah. Noah and his family are "gathered FIRST". They go into the Ark 7 days before the rain started. Those who were LEFT were killed. So now you have those LEFT in Genesis, and who were killed, but in Matthew 24 those who were killed where those who were "taken" by the flood ("airo" - Gk. - "snatched away").
And you are incorrect about Noah. Noah and his family are "gathered FIRST". They go into the Ark 7 days before the rain started. Those who were LEFT were killed. So now you have those LEFT in Genesis, and who were killed, but in Matthew 24 those who were killed where those who were "taken" by the flood ("airo" - Gk. - "snatched away").