Matthew 13:30 I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
If YESUAH says that the wicked is gather FIRST, WHY ARE some people looking for a rapture,??? Who does the say was taken in the flood.???
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Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
LUKE 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two [men] in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 17:35 Two [women] shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
17:36 Two [men] shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together.
Here are the ones that ARE taken, They laying dead on the GROUND, for the BIRDS is what the BIBLE says,
17:36 Two [men] shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together.
Here are the ones that ARE taken, They laying dead on the GROUND, for the BIRDS is what the BIBLE says,
Bud62, the weeds/wicked are gathered by the angels when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age. These will be LIVING people who will have made it through the entire tribulation period.
There will be different groups on the earth during the tribulation period:
1). The unbelieving nation of Israel
2). The 144,000 who come out Israel who recognize Jesus as their Messiah
3). The great number of saints who come out of the great tribulation which no man can count from every nation, tribe, people and language
Prior to the tribulation, the church will have been gathered and taken back to the Father's house, as promised in John 14:1-3 and I Thess.4:16-18.
When the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, the angels will go out first and collect the weeds. These are the 'ones taken.' They will all be killed by that double-edged sword that proceeds from the mouth of the Lord, as described in Rev.19:15, 21. The wheat will be gathered after that, who will be those saints (not the church) who will have made it through the great tribulation and will enter into the millennial kingdom to repopulate the earth, along with the remnant of Israel.
The gathering of the church is a separate event which will take place prior to the tribulation and will be returning with the Lord when returns to the earth to end the age. That said, the church is not in view in regards to the "one taken and the other left" event.
^ Agreed, that these passages are all contexts regarding His Second Coming to the earth , FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (and are NOT "Rapture [IN THE AIR]" passages, per CONTEXT).
[there are many such passages... Daniel 12:12 is one such passage (about "still-living saints" at the time surrounding His Second Coming to the earth): "BLESSED is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days." These "saints" ENTER the earthly MK age in mortal bodies capable of reproducing/bearing children...]
[there are many such passages... Daniel 12:12 is one such passage (about "still-living saints" at the time surrounding His Second Coming to the earth): "BLESSED is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days." These "saints" ENTER the earthly MK age in mortal bodies capable of reproducing/bearing children...]
P
pottersclay
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Notice the first command is to bind them. To stop them to do no more harm or evil.
In bundles may be just like stubble is gathered.
It does not say then burn them but to be burned.
because the wicked are gathered & bound into bundles, but the righteous are taken into His barn.
the bundles of tares are left in the field. the wheat is taken away from the field.
was Noah not taken away, 'stored in a barn' so to speak, before the world was judged?
and Lot - was he left in Sodom while Sodom was destroyed, or taken out of it first?
how are they "taken" and also "laying dead on the ground" ?
seems to me if they are taken they are not still there.
Eagles eat meat. The body of Christ is meat.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed
In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away.
And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back.
(Luke 17:31)
if that were the case why is Christ warning those who believe not to turn back from the field or come down from their rooftop in that day? what would be the point of such a warning, if the result is that they're going to be left on earth anyway?
Eagles eat meat. The body of Christ is meat.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed
what, is Christ's body dead?
He lives, friend. He was bodily raised, and bodily ascended, and will bodily return. He is not composed of death; He is Life. Christ is not a decomposing corpse that vultures tear apart.
this doesn't answer the question i had for @bud62 tho -- he says the wicked will be in two places at the same time, 'taken' and 'left'
he describes there personhood as being both their spirit ((taken?)) and their body ((left?))
if we are souls, then our body of dust that's left behind is not us.
if we are flesh, then the spirit departing at the death of the body is not us.
he's got a self-contradictory view. i wonder if this is a standard SDA thing? has anyone heard this weird 'it's the wicked who will be raptured, not the saints' false teaching before? it's new to me, and seems incredibly bogus.
even if i'm not fully convinced about some particular things you say sometimes, i really love how coherent your eschatology is
Yes he's alive. The body of Christ is the bible. Not trying to derail.... carry on.
Eagles eat meat. The body of Christ is meat.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed
i think this is a much better fit with Christ saying the eagles gather where the dead bodies are:
And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven,
'Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; that ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great!'
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him that sat on the horse, and against His army.
(Revelation 19:17-19)
Yes he's alive. The body of Christ is the bible. Not trying to derail.... carry on.
this is probably a thread that could stand some derailing lol
probably i should have extended my quote:
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth:
and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
(Revelation 19:21)
interestingly on-topic, we have the beast & false prophet "taken" here & cast alive into the lake of fire.not all the unbelieving that follow them; they are slain and the birds gather at their dead bodies. there's a distinctly different end to the beast & prophet vs. those who worship them.
not sure Christ is talking about the same event in Luke 17 -- but there's definitely a relationship here, through the dead bodies & the birds
which connects back to my point about this statement:
here at the coming of the LORD, the ones the Bible describes as "taken" are taken explicitly alive not dead. the ones who are not taken are the dead ones.
THE wicked will be destroy by the brightness of his coming, they will lay dead on the ground for food for the bird, and no one to bury them.
JER 25:33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.
^ Here's a post I made in the past, on this Subject currently under discussion:
[quoting old post]
Okay, but I was speaking specifically of the verses Isaiah 24:21-22a with Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 [/ His Second Coming to the earth]"
So, ^ in Revelation 19:21a (one of the verses I pointed out) it says "and the remnant were SLAIN" (i.e. they DIE). This is what verse 22 means in Isaiah 24 where it says [see verse 22]:
Isaiah 24 -
21 In that day the LORD will punish
the host of heaven above
and the kings of the earth below. [<--COMPARE with Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (at His 2nd Coming to the earth)]
22 They will be gathered together
like prisoners in a pit.
They will be confined to a dungeon
This is distinct from what Revelation 20:11-15 says specifically, that "and death and hades delivered [/gave] up the dead" (v.13).
The "pit" is not "the lake of fire," see.
(the "pit" is equivalent to "death [and/or] the grave," see).
"But the rest of the dead lived not again UNTIL,"... see [they go to or remain in the "pit" ('death and/or the grave') UNTIL... Until the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words, the one in Isaiah 24:22b ("and AFTER MANY DAYS shall they be PUNISHED" [ = the later GWTj point in time, Rev20:11-15] )]
____________
[and]
Re: "the pit" and "the grave" (basically meaning "death"... not that someone's BODY necessarily had to have been "buried" in the ground! [see again the word "SLAIN" in Rev19:21]--recall the verse, Lk12:20, "20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?"--means the person DIED but doesn't really speak as to "what has happened to the person's BODY"... coz that's not what the Subject is centered on, here [it is basically irrelevant to what is being talked about there, in that verse])
Isaiah 38:18 -
"For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth."
Ezekiel 28:8 -
"They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas."
Ezekiel 31:14 -
"[...]: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit."
[I see this also as equivalent to the phrase "cast into outer darkness" which will take place at the time of His Second Coming to the earth, in that, those to whom this phrase pertains will NOT be entering the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (aka 'the age [singular] to come') to enjoy it]
[end quoting old post]
____________
Hope that made some sense.
[quoting old post]
Okay, but I was speaking specifically of the verses Isaiah 24:21-22a with Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 [/ His Second Coming to the earth]"
So, ^ in Revelation 19:21a (one of the verses I pointed out) it says "and the remnant were SLAIN" (i.e. they DIE). This is what verse 22 means in Isaiah 24 where it says [see verse 22]:
Isaiah 24 -
21 In that day the LORD will punish
the host of heaven above
and the kings of the earth below. [<--COMPARE with Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (at His 2nd Coming to the earth)]
22 They will be gathered together
like prisoners in a pit.
They will be confined to a dungeon
This is distinct from what Revelation 20:11-15 says specifically, that "and death and hades delivered [/gave] up the dead" (v.13).
The "pit" is not "the lake of fire," see.
(the "pit" is equivalent to "death [and/or] the grave," see)."But the rest of the dead lived not again UNTIL,"... see
[they go to or remain in the "pit" ('death and/or the grave') UNTIL... Until the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words, the one in Isaiah 24:22b ("and AFTER MANY DAYS shall they be PUNISHED" [ = the later GWTj point in time, Rev20:11-15] )]____________
[and]
Re: "the pit" and "the grave" (basically meaning "death"... not that someone's BODY necessarily had to have been "buried" in the ground! [see again the word "SLAIN" in Rev19:21]--recall the verse, Lk12:20, "20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?"--means the person DIED but doesn't really speak as to "what has happened to the person's BODY"... coz that's not what the Subject is centered on, here [it is basically irrelevant to what is being talked about there, in that verse])
Isaiah 38:18 -
"For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth."
Ezekiel 28:8 -
"They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas."
Ezekiel 31:14 -
"[...]: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit."
[I see this also as equivalent to the phrase "cast into outer darkness" which will take place at the time of His Second Coming to the earth, in that, those to whom this phrase pertains will NOT be entering the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (aka 'the age [singular] to come') to enjoy it]
[end quoting old post]
____________
Hope that made some sense.