I am the only person on Earth that believes Genesis 2:17

[Jocund]

Logic and reason is why there is so much doctrinal disputation in the

Logic and reason by itself will not contradict truth. It is only when we apply assumptions within a logical framework that contradictions can occur. And this is what we see happened with the Pharisees. They wrongfully placed all of their conviction within one of many possible interpretations at the expense of other possible interpretations (including at the expense of a true understanding).

True scholars will recognize the difference between that which is necessarily true, that which is possibly true, and that which is necessarily untrue. Discerning truth by heart and mind led by the Spirit.

Differences in interpretation come in when people find possible interpretations differently compelling. And sometimes, these differences are rightly so. The truth for an ear that hears is foundationally different than the truth of an eye that sees. To the mind behind the body, each of these signals and reactions make sense and are valued, but to the individual body parts the other misleadingly seem completely foreign and disconnected from purpose.

We all have the truth we need at the time we have it. Disagreement and dispute is not necessarily a sign of disfunction or disassociation.

The soul is meant to be the organ of expression.

Heart and mind are aspects of the soul. We clearly aren't talking about the heart as a literal physical organ, nor the mind simply as brain structures. We can look at these as pathos and logos. And from the Holy Spirit (an ethos), these lead us to truth.

So in that, there is still a place for rational thought and discernment... without it, no words would have meaning... logic and reason are not something that can be tossed away. (And historically this has been a great starting grounds against nihilism)

 

[EloyCraft]

As far as I know, I appear to be the only Human Being on the planet that believes the following verse in its most literal sense...

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

Everyone else changes the words around to make it say something else entirely. This is a no-no of course.

One of the reasons I signed up here is to see if there actually exists another person that believes the aforementioned verse.

Are you out there? Or am I the only one that simply believes what is says?

I believe it as you do. In that day they died. Their bodies began that day to obey the law of sin and death. That day the powers of nature became hostile in their flesh and in the world. The body had to survive like the other animals. It now operated on it's own volition because it's members were no longer free to serve the will. A body of death serves the law of death. Just as the flesh of other animals do. Their bodies informed them of their change of state. From life to death. The involuntary movements of there bodies shamed them. So they covered their bodies. The human body itself is the sign of that first covenant because it wasn't burdened by the need to survive. The human body wasn't meant for death and there was no mistaking it for a body of the other animals. The longevity of Methuselah was a remnant of the sign of the first covenant. So when He died the first drop of rain fell to begin the deluge.

 

[Timtofly]

They experienced death immediately. They went from permanent incorruptible physical bodies to temporal corruptible physical bodies. That is what physical death is. Eventually their corruptible bodies stopped working altogether. Which is what many then call physical death. But we are all born with a physically dead body from conception.


In Christ the soul now has an escape from death by having a permanent incorruptible physical body waiting for us in Paradise immediately when the soul leaves this dead body. Paul pointed that out in 2 Corinthians 5:1. Therefore in Christ we do not even taste death.

For the OT redeemed tasting death was waiting in Abraham's bosom as a soul in sheol, but not in torment. Even the soul could not enter Paradise, until the Cross. The Cross in 30AD opened Paradise with a resurrected soul in that permanent incorruptible physical body. We can know Paradise is physical with the soul enjoying that physical incorruptible body.

Now one can say that is only known spiritually by the Spirit. And even Paul claimed he did not physically know that in 2 Corinthians 12:1-4. It was not his time to experience that. But he did not rule out the possibility, or he would have contradicted his own point in chapter 5.

Many are also dogmatic that flesh and blood means all physical bodies. That cannot be the case. Only Adam's dead flesh and blood cannot enter Paradise. There is nothing prohibiting the flesh and blood of Christ from entering Paradise. Nor was Paradise forbidden to all the OT redeemed with their new resurrected permanent incorruptible physical bodies.

Many also want to be very dogmatic on only one physical resurrection period. They let one verse dictate all other verses, instead of comparing all Scripture to get a broader picture of God's redemption. Since God's plan all along was to make a way of escape, even from Adam's drastic decision to disobey God and literally physically die. And even the punishment would last no longer than 6,000 years. To think we would just be resurrected back into sin nature, dead, human flesh is beyond ridiculous. As well as the notion all since Adam are still waiting in the confines of Abraham's bosom. Abraham's bosom is not Paradise. Paradise is that city not made by hands Abraham viewed by faith. But even Abraham had to wait in faith until the Cross to enter. But now entrance is immediate. Just as Adam's physical death was immediate that day, Jesus as the Lamb provides immediate physical entrance into Paradise (the Garden) which is now Abraham's city. In 1,000 years or so, Paradise will come down to earth as the New Jerusalem John saw in Revelation 21.

 

[Bleed]

i thought "death" was being away from God....

 

[ewq1938]

They experienced death immediately. They went from permanent incorruptible physical bodies to temporal corruptible physical bodies.

They were never incorruptible physically. All humans are created or born mortal. Adam and Eve died in a spiritual manner the day they sinned and that is true of all humans when they first sin. Christ was also born mortal and aged but never sinned so further proof that sin does not cause aging and eventual death.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Adam was in a natural body which is mortal. Only the spiritual body is immortal.

 

[ewq1938]

i thought "death" was being away from God....

No, that is simply separation. Death means something died and has no life. The first death is when the body dies but the soul and spirit remain alive. The second death can happen after the body is resurrected then it dies a second time but this time the soul and spirit also die. There is not another resurrection for those who partake in the second death.