Yes, there is Scripture supporting the view that angels are real, but the hypothesis of this thread is that it opens up a can of worms about which GW is very vague. Do angels have MFW and thus need God's POS, or are they robotic and thus viewable as mere extensions of God's HS, so we should only glorify them as such?
How do angels jibe with the Holy Spirit?
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I appreciate getting an opinion of an ex-RC. Yes, in the thread about KISSing the HOB we saw how RC left/renounced GW/the NT and became corrupted by papalism and perversions of the Gospel.
I cited the book because there may be folks on CC who are more confused about angelology than I am, so we are trying to agree on what Scripture teaches with respect to their role and personality compared with the HS.
I perceive that the hypothesis "angels should grow less as the HS is glorified in the church era" (between Acts and REV) is affirmed by a few so far, and there are a couple of folks willing to consider whether the OT angels were actually manifestations of the HS described by souls before revelation per the NT that God is Triune.
I cited the book because there may be folks on CC who are more confused about angelology than I am, so we are trying to agree on what Scripture teaches with respect to their role and personality compared with the HS.
I perceive that the hypothesis "angels should grow less as the HS is glorified in the church era" (between Acts and REV) is affirmed by a few so far, and there are a couple of folks willing to consider whether the OT angels were actually manifestations of the HS described by souls before revelation per the NT that God is Triune.
Thanks CS1. When the Lord himself descends from heaven in 1 Thes he has the voice of the archangel. That is his voice: We read, "
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
"
When Michael defeats Satan in Revelation it is with his blood: "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels," which continues a few verses further... "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. "
When Daniel inquires from God, we read, "But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince. " Jesus is the prince of peace in the Bible and he is Daniel's prince.
The term archangel simply means 'chief messenger' which Jesus is.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
"
When Michael defeats Satan in Revelation it is with his blood: "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels," which continues a few verses further... "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. "
When Daniel inquires from God, we read, "But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince. " Jesus is the prince of peace in the Bible and he is Daniel's prince.
The term archangel simply means 'chief messenger' which Jesus is.
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1thess chapter four says 4:16
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
it doesn't say with a voice as the archangel like the trump of God.
I state WITH the voice of the Archangel and WITH the Trump of GOD.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
it doesn't say with a voice as the archangel like the trump of God.
I state WITH the voice of the Archangel and WITH the Trump of GOD.
The holy spirit is an angel. That's why they are ministering spirits. Minister means servants. Why you think the Devil rebelled Because he does not want to minister to those who will heir. Get you some knowledge because you don' know nothing. God made the bees and the bees made honey so who made honey? GOD.
GOD gets all the glory. Never forget that. If the angel kills someone then GOD did it plain and simple.
Exodus 23: 20
20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Isaiah 6: 7 - 10
7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the Lord, and the praises of the Lord, according to all that the Lord hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.
8 For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour.
9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them
GOD gets all the glory. Never forget that. If the angel kills someone then GOD did it plain and simple.
Exodus 23: 20
20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Isaiah 6: 7 - 10
7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the Lord, and the praises of the Lord, according to all that the Lord hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.
8 For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour.
9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them
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Honestly if it ain't in the bible I don't deal with it. I read a couple of history books for studying purposes as the bible is also a history book but when dealing with spiritual things, stick to the bible. You will get lost if go outside of the bible.
Yea the bible doesn't support the trinity. People read one scripture and run with it and ignore every other scripture that indicates there are only 2 in the GODHEAD. Holy spirit is not GOD and does not want to be worshipped.
Revelation 22: 8 - 9
8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Yea the bible doesn't support the trinity. People read one scripture and run with it and ignore every other scripture that indicates there are only 2 in the GODHEAD. Holy spirit is not GOD and does not want to be worshipped.
Revelation 22: 8 - 9
8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
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Certainly the Bible should be used as the plumb line to determine whether extra-biblical insights are true. History, math, science and other books may contain truth, although they are not about ultimate Truth regarding how to qualify for heaven, which is the focus of Scripture.
Regarding the Triune God:
The OT Shema (DT 6:4) teaches that God is one, and the NT also affirms that there is one God (EPH 4:6, 1TM 2:5). However, the NT teaches that God relates to believers in three ways simultaneously: as the Father, as the Son and as the Holy Spirit (1 x 1 x 1=1).
The Father/Parenthood of God is indicated in Jesus’ model prayer (MT 6:9), throughout the Gospel of John (3:35, 5:17-18, etc.), and in the epistles of Paul (RM 4:11, 8:15, PHP 2:11). God the Father and Christ’s Sonship are discussed in Hebrews 1:1-4. The Son of God also is mentioned by John (JN 1:14, 3:16, etc.) and by Paul (RM 1:4, GL 2:20, 1THS 1:10). The Holy Spirit is mentioned in three successive chapters in John (JN 14:26, 15:26, 16:13), frequently in the book of Acts (ACTS 1:5, 2:4, 9:17, 13:2, 19:2), and in many of Paul’s letters (RM 8:4-26, 1CR 6:19, EPH 4:30) as well as in some of the other epistles (2PT 1:21, JUDE 20).
It might be helpful for those who stumble over this NT doctrine to discern which aspect of the triune God is the subject of various biblical statements. These divine aspects or “persons” may be distinguished by role: God the Father as creator or initiator (GN 1:1), God the Son as Messiah or mediator (1TM 2:5), and God the Spirit as indweller (RM 5:5). For example, 1 John 4:7 says love comes from (is initiated by) God (the Father), Galatians 5:22 says that love is a fruit of the (indwelling) Spirit, and Ephesians 3:18 speaks of the (mediating) love of Christ (RM 5:8, EPH 2:18).
We can denote these distinctions by the use of three prepositions: God the Father is over all creation (EPH 4:6), God the Son is Immanuel or with humanity (MT 1:23), and the Holy Spirit is within all believers (EPH 1:13). A single passage that comes closest to indicating this distinction is Ephesians 3:14-19, in which Paul prays to the Father that through His Spirit of love Christ would dwell in believers’ hearts (also see 1CR 8:6).
Actually, since the creation also manifests God (RM 1:20, cf. JN 1:1-3 & PS 33:6), in a sense God may be viewed as a “Quadity”. As Paul told the Athenians (ACTS 17:28), “In Him we live and move and have our being.” God as Creation is throughout physical reality (called “panentheism”). However, since this mode of revelation is impersonal, it has rightly been de-emphasized by most Christian denominations.
Regarding the Triune God:
The OT Shema (DT 6:4) teaches that God is one, and the NT also affirms that there is one God (EPH 4:6, 1TM 2:5). However, the NT teaches that God relates to believers in three ways simultaneously: as the Father, as the Son and as the Holy Spirit (1 x 1 x 1=1).
The Father/Parenthood of God is indicated in Jesus’ model prayer (MT 6:9), throughout the Gospel of John (3:35, 5:17-18, etc.), and in the epistles of Paul (RM 4:11, 8:15, PHP 2:11). God the Father and Christ’s Sonship are discussed in Hebrews 1:1-4. The Son of God also is mentioned by John (JN 1:14, 3:16, etc.) and by Paul (RM 1:4, GL 2:20, 1THS 1:10). The Holy Spirit is mentioned in three successive chapters in John (JN 14:26, 15:26, 16:13), frequently in the book of Acts (ACTS 1:5, 2:4, 9:17, 13:2, 19:2), and in many of Paul’s letters (RM 8:4-26, 1CR 6:19, EPH 4:30) as well as in some of the other epistles (2PT 1:21, JUDE 20).
It might be helpful for those who stumble over this NT doctrine to discern which aspect of the triune God is the subject of various biblical statements. These divine aspects or “persons” may be distinguished by role: God the Father as creator or initiator (GN 1:1), God the Son as Messiah or mediator (1TM 2:5), and God the Spirit as indweller (RM 5:5). For example, 1 John 4:7 says love comes from (is initiated by) God (the Father), Galatians 5:22 says that love is a fruit of the (indwelling) Spirit, and Ephesians 3:18 speaks of the (mediating) love of Christ (RM 5:8, EPH 2:18).
We can denote these distinctions by the use of three prepositions: God the Father is over all creation (EPH 4:6), God the Son is Immanuel or with humanity (MT 1:23), and the Holy Spirit is within all believers (EPH 1:13). A single passage that comes closest to indicating this distinction is Ephesians 3:14-19, in which Paul prays to the Father that through His Spirit of love Christ would dwell in believers’ hearts (also see 1CR 8:6).
Actually, since the creation also manifests God (RM 1:20, cf. JN 1:1-3 & PS 33:6), in a sense God may be viewed as a “Quadity”. As Paul told the Athenians (ACTS 17:28), “In Him we live and move and have our being.” God as Creation is throughout physical reality (called “panentheism”). However, since this mode of revelation is impersonal, it has rightly been de-emphasized by most Christian denominations.
