I'm always amazed at the number of people who will resort to apologetics opposed to excepting the truth that has been presented to them.
Tell me about it.
There is nothing that can be said regarding the meaning of John 14:1-3 and the KJV is saying nothing different. Jesus made it very clear that He was going to the Father's house to prepare places for believers and that He was going to return and take us to those places in the Father's house, that where He believer's may be also. Since it has yet to take place, then it is still a future, imminent event.
If we follow the eschatology in the Bible, it does not put the saints, bodily, in heaven, but it does show the New Jerusalem descending down out of heaven onto the new earth at the end of Revelation.
In further support of this, Rev.19:6-8 reveals the bride/church as being in heaven at the wedding of the Lamb and receiving her fine linen, white and clean.
The marriage supper is announced, then the Word appears on a white horse. I take that to refer to the Second Coming. At the second coming, Jesus returns with the holy angels, and also the saints meet him in the air at his coming--(which immediately follows the resurrection of the dead in Christ, which we are told in I Corinthians 15 are made alive 'at His coming.') The Bible does not say that the marriage supper of the Lamb occurs in heaven. The marriage supper is announced, and we see the second coming right after that. The saints are on earth throughout the book of Revelation. There is no rapture depicted prior to this to put them (bodily) in heaven in the whole book.
The living saints being caught up vs. the time of the man of lawlessness, antichrist, are two events. The church will be removed prior to the revealing of the man of lawlessness/antichrist. Your error is not recognizing the gathering of the church as being a separate event from the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.
Why wouldn't I see the gathering of the saints as occuring at the coming of the Lord. Look at this verse in II Thessalonians 2.
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the
coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
And why wouldn't the 'day of Christ' refer back to His coming and our gathering unto Him? Why wouldn't it refer to the events in chapter 1, where Jesus returns while the church is here to give them rest and execute vengence on them that believe not.
At the coming of Christ, the saints are gathered to him (II Thes. 2:1) , and the man of sin is destroyed.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and
shall destroy with the brightness of
his coming:
If the gathering occurs at Jesus' coming, and the man of sin is destroyed at his coming, under a pre-trib scenario, the man of sin would be gone before the tribulation even started.
It is the event of the Lord's return to the earth to end the age when that man of lawlessness will be destroyed by the brightness of the Lord's coming, which is synonymous with the beast and the false being captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire, as described in Rev.19:20.
That makes sense.
The saints/church will have been caught up several years prior to that event.
The Bible says the saints will be made alive 'at His coming.' The dead in Christ rise first and the rapture is right after that. The Bible says the saints will be made alive 'at His coming.' Why would you think the saints would be raptured and resurrected seven years before His coming? Paul associates the gathering of the saints with the coming of Christ, not seven years before He comes back.
In Matthew, the gathering of the elect occurs at the coming of the Son of Man, after the tribulation of those days. Can you show me a verse that shows the rapture before the tribulation?
If you will notice, the church is never mentioned again after the end of chapter 3 and during the time of God's wrath. 'The church' The next time the church is alluded to, is as the bride who is already in heaven at the wedding of the Lamb. And the next time the word "church" is actually used, is in Rev.22:16 in the epilog.
II Thessalonians 1 shows that church will be on the earth when Jesus comes back and executes vengence on them that believe not. In the pre-trib theory, the unbelievers get a time of 'peace peace' and witness a peace treaty, then judgment comes after Jesus returns. But in II Thessalonians 1, Jesus returns to be glorified in the saints when the church is here. Them that know not God get vengence. How does this square with pre-trib.
In the book of Revelation, all the believers throughout the world are not called 'the church.' They are called saints. Individual assemblies in each city are called 'church' or 'churches', and they are addressed at the beginning of the epistle. Revelation does not tell of a pre-trib rapture.
