Have the times of the gentiles ended in 1967?
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If you say so....
So gentile Christians are an earthly kingdom presently ruling the world, thereby preventing Israel from self-governance?
Nope.
Israel is self-governing now, today. The times of the gentiles FOR THEM is now over.
However, there yet remains many prophetical fulfillments for them, including the Second Coming and the "true" and final regathering that follows.
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The prophetic promise of Isaiah 11:12 connects the larger narrative of God's final work of redemption, with the second coming of Jesus. ~~~ Amos 9 emphasizes the unification, and the gathering of God's people, followers and believers of Christ, to Heavenly Canaan, prophetically, not literally as you're try to make it out.
"Spiritual matters are spiritually, discerned "ascertained." ~~ We are to walk (understand) in the Spirit and NOT in the flesh, "not lituralizing everything". ... as the anti-Christ spirit would have us understand Scripture, to our own demise. Satan wants the eternal destruction of our souls, he HATES God's creation and God's Law, ~~~ Jesus being the embodiment of the Father's Character, the Law, = LOVE
Using your literal understanding, Mr Clayman, of Amos 9 prophecy to justification these Jew's claims on Palestine is true to form for dispensationalists believing the Anti-Christ spirit in Rome, into misdirecting and DECEIVING Christians, we the true Israel, IN CHRIST.
We ALL need to be diligently praying for Spiritual discernment, to keeps us from the "wiles of Satan" ~~~Satan IS the Master Deceiver, in ALL things Spiritual & literal ... Deceiving those without spiritual discernment, into believe this Catholic theology of a last 1000 years, where the antiChrist, (Papacy/Pope) being the head of God's Church, INSTEAD of Christ Jesus, Our Lord and King, here on this OLD corrupted earth.
We are in the VERY last days of man's earthly existence, God's prophecies are being fulfilled. This world will end soon, "as in the Days of Noah" and as was Sodom and Gomorrah, judged and completely destroyed, at the "brightness" of our Lord's soon return, to bring judgement and claim His Church, Rev. 14:12, to reign with Him, IN HEAVEN for 1000 years.
After 1000 yrs God will recreate this destroyed earth, to a New EARTH, then will be the Great White Throne Judgement (Revelation 20:11-15) when all the dead, great and small, from throughout history, will be resurrected and stand before God to be judged according to their works, their "righteous" fruits. The New Jerusalem will descend onto Mount Moriah, also known as the Temple Mount, where we will live for eternity, Heaven on the New Earth, with Jesus & The Father, the Angels and Saints.
( I pray, myself, to be included )
( Can you understand WHY the anti-Christ, wants Jerusalem?)
"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour".
1 Peter 5:8-9
"Spiritual matters are spiritually, discerned "ascertained." ~~ We are to walk (understand) in the Spirit and NOT in the flesh, "not lituralizing everything". ... as the anti-Christ spirit would have us understand Scripture, to our own demise. Satan wants the eternal destruction of our souls, he HATES God's creation and God's Law, ~~~ Jesus being the embodiment of the Father's Character, the Law, = LOVE
Using your literal understanding, Mr Clayman, of Amos 9 prophecy to justification these Jew's claims on Palestine is true to form for dispensationalists believing the Anti-Christ spirit in Rome, into misdirecting and DECEIVING Christians, we the true Israel, IN CHRIST.
We ALL need to be diligently praying for Spiritual discernment, to keeps us from the "wiles of Satan" ~~~Satan IS the Master Deceiver, in ALL things Spiritual & literal ... Deceiving those without spiritual discernment, into believe this Catholic theology of a last 1000 years, where the antiChrist, (Papacy/Pope) being the head of God's Church, INSTEAD of Christ Jesus, Our Lord and King, here on this OLD corrupted earth.
We are in the VERY last days of man's earthly existence, God's prophecies are being fulfilled. This world will end soon, "as in the Days of Noah" and as was Sodom and Gomorrah, judged and completely destroyed, at the "brightness" of our Lord's soon return, to bring judgement and claim His Church, Rev. 14:12, to reign with Him, IN HEAVEN for 1000 years.
After 1000 yrs God will recreate this destroyed earth, to a New EARTH, then will be the Great White Throne Judgement (Revelation 20:11-15) when all the dead, great and small, from throughout history, will be resurrected and stand before God to be judged according to their works, their "righteous" fruits. The New Jerusalem will descend onto Mount Moriah, also known as the Temple Mount, where we will live for eternity, Heaven on the New Earth, with Jesus & The Father, the Angels and Saints.
( I pray, myself, to be included )
( Can you understand WHY the anti-Christ, wants Jerusalem?)
"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour".
1 Peter 5:8-9
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Yes !! A Holy Spirit inspired understanding of Jesus, the Word, would seem confusing to anyone not having a person relationship with my Lord and Savior. Who came as the Light to the world, dispelling darkness and ignorance of The Way, The Truth, The Life.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
The "light" as the character of Christ, who is the ultimate revelation of God’s will. Christ is the light of the world.
1. Light as Truth and Guidance
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
The "light" as the character of Christ, who is the ultimate revelation of God’s will. Christ is the light of the world.
1. Light as Truth and Guidance
- Psalm 119:105 – "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path."
- John 8:12 – "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."
- 2 Timothy 3:16-17 – "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."
- Psalm 119:130 – "The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple."
- Psalm 19:7 – "The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple."
- Isaiah 8:16 – "Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples."
(Here, the "testimony" and "law" are presented together, and this verse connects directly to the themes in Isaiah 8:20.)
- Revelation 19:10 – "For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
- Joel 2:28-29 – "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions."
(This passage speaks of the outpouring of the Spirit and the prophetic gift.)
- John 1:4-5 – "In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."
There are single party covenants such as when God declares he will do something. There are also two party covenants where both parties have to agree to something. The first covenant between God and Israel was such an agreement. The second covenant was offered but not accepted. There is a view that the second covenant with a faithful remnant of the nation of Israel will bring in the earthly kingdom. Christians today are translated into the heavenly kingdom.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Thank You for expressing "Covenants" the way you did. I'm just learning these other views of God's Covenants, as there are so many, with so many different relationships and outcomes. I'm just learning this one, where these Jews in the world, must be believing they are still God's people, ( but are anti-Christ - 1 John 4:3 )
Do they think along with the rest of the majority of Christians, that after the Church is "raptured", they live on in this old world and still have a covenant relationship with God ? I'm trying to grasp this idea of there being a 1000 years, of people still left alive after Jesus' SOON returns.
Matt 24:37 says, that the Second Coming of our Lord, will be as in the Days of Noah. When the flood came, and lifted the Ark, ( a type of Christ ) saving a "remnant".. the flood destroyed ALL people, left on the earth.
According to scripture, there was was NO ONE LEFT, for any purpose, for no amount of time, not one day, or a 1000, after God saved His "remnant" of the human race, Noah and his family.
Do you understand, their understanding of their own Bible? ... cuz I don't
Do they think along with the rest of the majority of Christians, that after the Church is "raptured", they live on in this old world and still have a covenant relationship with God ? I'm trying to grasp this idea of there being a 1000 years, of people still left alive after Jesus' SOON returns.
Matt 24:37 says, that the Second Coming of our Lord, will be as in the Days of Noah. When the flood came, and lifted the Ark, ( a type of Christ ) saving a "remnant".. the flood destroyed ALL people, left on the earth.
According to scripture, there was was NO ONE LEFT, for any purpose, for no amount of time, not one day, or a 1000, after God saved His "remnant" of the human race, Noah and his family.
Do you understand, their understanding of their own Bible? ... cuz I don't
I may not entirely understand what your saying, but I think your saying that the promise given to the nation Israel in regards to the land of Israel by God, no longer applies to the physical nation of Israel today because we the Church have received and taken the promises upon ourselves through Christ, and that the promise is no longer the physical land as outlined throughout the bible, but has only a spiritual application now to the Church with a heavenly calling.
I guess my position half agrees with this.
Im not a physical Jew(that I know of) yet I am a spiritual Jew for I have obtained by faith the promises of God, Just like Abraham was a spiritual Jew and a believer by faith, he was not interested in a physical land to call home but looked for a heavenly city as faith causes us to look up. Heb 11:10
So I have been grafted into the olive tree if you like, even though the natural branches are broken off.
Yet I also believe, there is a 1000yr period where Israel will dwell in the promised land in the land of Canaan, which is far inferior a place than heaven and no believer or faithful Jew will want to dwell there or if they do they will look forward to dwelling in that heavenly city.
Yet God will bring Israel into the land just like He brought the slaves out of Eygpt, and Israel may even repeat history from their travels throughout the wilderness and their entry into the land of Canaan where they still kept rejecting God. I may elaborate later, but they will start up the Levitical sacrificial system which is good of them to remember their old ways but it will prove to be unfaithful or rejecting of the Word of God.(Jesus, the living Word)
But thats another topic, anyway one reason I believe that God will fulfill His promise to the nation of Israel as literal is simply the context. To take a spiritual application means to much ignoring of context, for me anyway, unless I'm completely misunderstanding things which is possible, I wont deny.
For example in Isaiah chapter 11 it begins with there shall come a Rod from the stem of Jesse, and a branch shall grow out of his roots.
I take this as the Lord being born a virgin, God stepping down to earth to become a man, whether one sees this as the first or second coming or both like me, its still the same point I have to make.
The Lord is going to gather his people again the second time. and gather them to the same place as the first time.
What I mean is when I read Isaiah 11;11 In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the surviving remnant of his people. would it not be either two physical gatherings or according to your view two spiritual gatherings, do you see two gatherings to heaven?
Also as I keep reading in the next verse I read, He will set a up a banner for the nations, together they shall plunder the the people of the east, fly down upon the philistines etc etc.
Sounds more like a nation that believes in a God yet it seems the majority will by a strange contradiction will for a while disbelieve Jesus Christ as God, that have been brought into a physical land promised to them by God so they can also rule the earth in peace(for a while).
I think we must be careful not to spiritualise everthing to much.
Sure Canaan is a type of heaven but its also a real physical place, just like the river Jordan is a type of death and a real river.
To me you are accidently hyper spiritualising, I simply mean, yes, the Jordan is a good picture of death, but we must be careful not to say those who cross it will not physically die, just like Canaan is a type of the promised heavenly land but all who go there do not physically go to heaven.
In the context of the AI quote Im pretty sure you know how the majority view the picture.
When we believe and are baptised(spiritually) into Christ, we cross the Jordan and enter into that heavenly promised land, you and I are already there.
We have died to self, Col 3;3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
We are to take up our cross daily and follow the Lord into death, which also means we will follow Him into the resurrection We are to put our old man to death etc etc
And we currently dwell in heavenly places, as we are eternally secured.
Eph 2:6 For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus.
That's the spiritual picture most conclude with, and that the AI was alluding to, also one can see the problem in Canaan is well the Canaanites, yes, they are pictures of sin that we have to battle with, it sorts out who really is a hero and/or of faith, those who will boldly face of against the giants that are put into our path, for we are still tested to see if our faith is genuine and to simply believe Gods Word.
The Catholics believe the 1000yrs started at the time of Christ, and is not a literal 1000years, that Rome is the eternal city, therefore believe they have replaced Israel.
I have to admit (maybe wrongly, I need to ask more questions) I was thinking you do the same, that you believe there is not a literal future 1000yrs and do you believe the Church has replaced Israel?
Follower, Do you actually believe there is a future literal 1000yrs yet we will be heaven? sorry if Im not understanding, If I read your last paragraph literally we will be in heaven for a 1000yrs while earth is destroyed for a 1000yrs So how do you see what will be happening on earth during this 1000yrs?
So how do you see what will be happening on earth during this 1000yrs?Did you forget about the book of Ruth?
Boaz (the kinsman redeemer) redeems the land for the Jewess Naomi.
But he marries the gentile Moabitess Ruth who hears/discovers Boaz (and the God of Israel) thru Naomi, abandons her people and life and follows Naomi. Boaz loves Ruth for her dedication to Naomi and chaste behavior.
The threshing floor scene has Ruth at the feet of Boaz, a type of the pre-trib rapture.
And yes, the pre-trib rapture is boilerplate doctrinal truth.
Boaz = Christ Jesus
Ruth = gentile Bride
Naomi = nation Israel
Boaz (the kinsman redeemer) redeems the land for the Jewess Naomi.
But he marries the gentile Moabitess Ruth who hears/discovers Boaz (and the God of Israel) thru Naomi, abandons her people and life and follows Naomi. Boaz loves Ruth for her dedication to Naomi and chaste behavior.
The threshing floor scene has Ruth at the feet of Boaz, a type of the pre-trib rapture.
And yes, the pre-trib rapture is boilerplate doctrinal truth.
Boaz = Christ Jesus
Ruth = gentile Bride
Naomi = nation Israel
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What does that have to do with what I said? God made a covenant with Israel, not Ruth. She was grafted into Israel when she became a believer in the God of Israel (Your God shall be my God), contrary to the law of Moses which prohibited Moabites from entering the congregation of the lord. It's a story of grace.
No, not really....
[Act 10:34 KJV]
Then Peter opened [his] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
[Act 10:35 KJV]
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
[Act 10:44 KJV]
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
[Act 10:45 KJV]
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[Act 10:46 KJV]
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
[Act 10:47 KJV]
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
[Act 10:48 KJV]
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
[Act 10:34 KJV]
Then Peter opened [his] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
[Act 10:35 KJV]
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
[Act 10:44 KJV]
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
[Act 10:45 KJV]
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[Act 10:46 KJV]
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
[Act 10:47 KJV]
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
[Act 10:48 KJV]
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Conclusive? Or would you like to add some commentary?
[Act 15:9 KJV]
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[Rom 3:22 KJV]
Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
[Rom 10:12 KJV]
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
[Act 15:9 KJV]
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[Rom 3:22 KJV]
Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
[Rom 10:12 KJV]
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.