Have the times of the gentiles ended in 1967?

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Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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#21
Why do you think the Jews are gathering in Israel? There are Jews ALL OVER THE WORLD. Millions of them here in the States. They are not rushing to relocate to Israel are they.

As well, you seem to forget that the New Covenant (Grace through Faith) clearly makes a path to ALL BELIEVERS to become Heirs to the Promise through Adoption!
Amen, that's how I read it as well.
Rom 2:28,29
28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

Really all of Gal 3 is saying this, but I'm posting 3:23-29

23Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slaveg nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

I really don't understand why people call this "replacement Theology" and make it a "bad thing". Well actually I kind of do, but it's the same thing when talking about God's sovereign power/His plan/the elect and who gets the glory for everything, and the Calvinist label and straw man arguments hurled at you before the first question is even asked and you openly and truthfully say you've never read/followed/taught or had anything to do with John Calvin or Calvinist teachings as a whole. Yet that seems to have no effect on being labeled that then told what you believe before that construct is torn down. I find the same kind of thing happens in this debate as well.

I think the real reason this is such a hot topic is because it is needed to support the idea that the coming judgement Jesus warned them of in scripture is future to us. It's just not. Jesus came to make a way of salvation to reconcile fallen man back to Himself for ALL NATIONS, and then to bring judgement to the covenant breaking Jews. The very Jews that screamed "We have no king but Ceasar", and "Crucify Him, His blood be on us and on our children". The people He looked in the eye's and told "this generation will not pass away before ALL these things take place". And the real kicker is that they DID TAKE PLACE in that timeframe. Those Jews were judged, and the temple was destroyed brick off brick. The temple is gone, it served it's purpose and now we are the temple, now there is only 1 way to God, by the Man Christ Jesus, given ALL authority in heaven, and on earth, seated on His throne at the right hand of God, and He must reign until every enemy has been made a footstool for His feet.

To me there's nothing that fits scripture like this view, although I have to add that my mind has been changed before as I grow and He opens my eyes to things I didn't see before, so I don't try to make it sound like I'm saying, "I have the most correct answer". I just like sharing where the Spirit has led me to this point and let Him use it how He will.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
24,663
8,989
113
#23
If you are one of the people who believes that the gathering of jews in Israel today is a prophecy fulfilled, I want to ask you a few questions:

1. Which verses talk about this gathering? The ones I see are all connected to the second coming of Jesus like Isaiah 11, wolf lying with the lamb etc.

2. Did the times of the gentiles mentioned in Luke 21 end in 1967 when the jews gained control of Jerusalem? If they did, what time are we living in now? Times of the jews?
https://watchmanbiblestudy.com/BibleStudies/HIStoryOurFuture/Ezekiels430Days.html

Ezekiel 4:1-8
Thou also, son of man, take thee a tile, and lay it before thee, and pourtray upon it the city, even Jerusalem: And lay siege against it, and build a fort against it, and cast a mount against it; set the camp also against it, and set battering rams against it round about. Moreover take thou unto thee an iron pan, and set it for a wall of iron between thee and the city: and set thy face against it, and it shall be besieged, and thou shalt lay siege against it. This shall be a sign to the house of Israel. Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity. For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel. And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year. Therefore thou shalt set thy face toward the siege of Jerusalem, and thine arm shall be uncovered, and thou shalt prophesy against it. And, behold, I will lay bands upon thee, and thou shalt not turn thee from one side to another, till thou hast ended the days of thy siege.

Leviticus 26:18
And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

(In fact, this commitment is reiterated four times in that chapter for emphasis. Leviticus 26:18, 21, 24, 28) It has been suggested that multiplying the “problem” 360 years by seven yields 2520 years. After conversion from 360-day years and the calendar adjustments made in 1572, this is the duration of time from the exile through the Diaspora.”

2 Chronicles 36:20,21
And them that had escaped from the sword carried he away to Babylon; where they were servants to him and his sons until the reign of the kingdom of Persia: To fulfill the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her Sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfill threescore and ten years.

Jeremiah 25:11
And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

Jeremiah 29:10
For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place

Daniel 1:1​
In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem, and besieged it.​

Guy Cramer: “Daniel 1:1 happened between March/April 606 and February/March 605. This is within the range that has been calculated for this prophecy to begin (Summer of 606). However, with the data obtained to date we cannot give a dogmatic answer on the month or even the season in Daniel 1:1.”

Decree of Cyrus - July 23, 537 BC (exact day in order to be 2,520 years to May 14, 1948)

Guy Cramer: “The period from the summer of 606 BC, (the first siege) to the summer of 537 BC (the decree of Cyrus) is exactly 25,200 days. This corresponds to 70 years of 360 days duration!​
If it was the spring (Grant Jeffrey) or summer (Chuck Missler) of 606 BC at this time we do not know, so the exact day for the prophecy to begin also cannot be known.”​
Darius I confirms Jews are to rebuild the temple - August 16, 518 BC (exact day in order to be 2,520 years to June 7, 1967)
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
24,663
8,989
113
#24
Amen, that's how I read it as well.
Rom 2:28,29
28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

Really all of Gal 3 is saying this, but I'm posting 3:23-29

23Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slaveg nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

I really don't understand why people call this "replacement Theology" and make it a "bad thing". Well actually I kind of do, but it's the same thing when talking about God's sovereign power/His plan/the elect and who gets the glory for everything, and the Calvinist label and straw man arguments hurled at you before the first question is even asked and you openly and truthfully say you've never read/followed/taught or had anything to do with John Calvin or Calvinist teachings as a whole. Yet that seems to have no effect on being labeled that then told what you believe before that construct is torn down. I find the same kind of thing happens in this debate as well.

I think the real reason this is such a hot topic is because it is needed to support the idea that the coming judgement Jesus warned them of in scripture is future to us. It's just not. Jesus came to make a way of salvation to reconcile fallen man back to Himself for ALL NATIONS, and then to bring judgement to the covenant breaking Jews. The very Jews that screamed "We have no king but Ceasar", and "Crucify Him, His blood be on us and on our children". The people He looked in the eye's and told "this generation will not pass away before ALL these things take place". And the real kicker is that they DID TAKE PLACE in that timeframe. Those Jews were judged, and the temple was destroyed brick off brick. The temple is gone, it served it's purpose and now we are the temple, now there is only 1 way to God, by the Man Christ Jesus, given ALL authority in heaven, and on earth, seated on His throne at the right hand of God, and He must reign until every enemy has been made a footstool for His feet.

To me there's nothing that fits scripture like this view, although I have to add that my mind has been changed before as I grow and He opens my eyes to things I didn't see before, so I don't try to make it sound like I'm saying, "I have the most correct answer". I just like sharing where the Spirit has led me to this point and let Him use it how He will.
No Israelites in their land, no Second Coming.

Period.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
24,663
8,989
113
#25
From the first (1st) siege of Nebuchadnezzar [Daniel taken to Babylon]
to
the Decree of Cyrus when the Persians conquered Babylon & Israel was released (70 years - servitude of the nation) + 2,484 years, 9 months, 2 days = May 14, 1948

 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
24,663
8,989
113
#26
Who is currently trodding the Temple mount?

Looks like a satanic mosque to me.

The time of Gentiles ends when the last person is saved and converted in Jesus Christ, and His Church is raptured.
Good grief no.
The (non-Christian) Gentile kingdoms and the Church are mutually exclusive.

Furthermore, the times of the gentiles prophecy is related to Israel alone. And has to do with THE LAND.

We do NOT inherit the land as Israel does.

We are "in" the world, but we are not part of the world, nor of these gentile kingdoms all of whom have Satan as their lord.

Luk 21:24 - And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Jhn 17:14 - I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Phl 2:15 - That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
24,663
8,989
113
#27
Who is currently trodding the Temple mount?

Looks like a satanic mosque to me.

The time of Gentiles ends when the last person is saved and converted in Jesus Christ, and His Church is raptured.
When you see this keyword, you know for certain that the utterance is directed toward ISRAEL and Israel alone.

Luk 21:24 - And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Luk 13:34
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Luk 13:35
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye (ISRAELITES in the land of Israel) shall not see me, until the time come when ye (ISRAELITES in the land of Israel) shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

****************************************************************************************************

BTW, what most think of the so called Temple mount today never was the actual location of the True Temple.
That is GENTILE territory.....the fortress Antonia.

 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
14,028
9,473
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#28
The (non-Christian) Gentile kingdoms and the Church are mutually exclusive.

Of course they are. But Gentiles are Biblically defined as ANYBODY that isn't Jewish.

The Gentiles that don't accept Christ are still Gentiles, and they are the ones, that are currently trodding down the Temple Mount.

Luke 21:24
In the Bible, Luke 21:24 states that Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled
These would be the non converted Gentiles doing the trodding here.

Paul tells us about the CONVERTED Gentiles:
Romans 11:25
New King James Version


25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Come into what? Into the Body of Christ of course.

See the distinction between these two groups of Gentiles?
Furthermore, the times of the gentiles prophecy is related to Israel alone. And has to do with THE LAND.

We do NOT inherit the land as Israel does.
Irrelevant to the point. Never said the Church inherits the Land.

We are "in" the world, but we are not part of the world, nor of these gentile kingdoms all of whom have Satan as their lord.
Yup. Still irrelevant to the point.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
24,663
8,989
113
#29
Of course they are. But Gentiles are Biblically defined as ANYBODY that isn't Jewish.

The Gentiles that don't accept Christ are still Gentiles, and they are the ones, that are currently trodding down the Temple Mount.

Luke 21:24
In the Bible, Luke 21:24 states that Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled
These would be the non converted Gentiles doing the trodding here.

Paul tells us about the CONVERTED Gentiles:
Romans 11:25
New King James Version


25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Come into what? Into the Body of Christ of course.

See the distinction between these two groups of Gentiles?

Irrelevant to the point. Never said the Church inherits the Land.


Yup. Still irrelevant to the point.
"The time of Gentiles ends when the last person is saved and converted in Jesus Christ, and His Church is raptured."

On the contrary, my entire discourse is a relevant refutation of YOUR faulty assertion seen above.

And "times of the Gentiles" refers to the succession of EARTHLY KINGDOMS. Never the Church who are TAKEN OUT of the kingdoms of the world. Most remarkably at the rapture, which itself has nothing whatever to do with gentile kingdoms.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
14,028
9,473
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#35
"The time of Gentiles ends when the last person is saved and converted in Jesus Christ, and His Church is raptured."

On the contrary, my entire discourse is a relevant refutation of YOUR faulty assertion seen above.

And "times of the Gentiles" refers to the succession of EARTHLY KINGDOMS. Never the Church who are TAKEN OUT of the kingdoms of the world. Most remarkably at the rapture, which itself has nothing whatever to do with gentile kingdoms.
If you say so....:rolleyes:
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
14,028
9,473
113
#36
Genesis 13 NKJV
14 And the Lord said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: “Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are—northward southward, eastward, and westward; 15 for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants forever.

Deuteronomy 4:40

New King James Version
40 You shall therefore keep His statutes and His commandments which I command you today, that it may go well with you and with your children after you, and that you may prolong your days in the land which the Lord your God is giving you for all time.


There were conditions for BLESSINGS, NOT for the LAND itself. They may, and were, even exiled for various lengths of time because of disobedience. But land has been promised to them FOREVER.
 
Nov 1, 2024
2,223
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#37
There were conditions for BLESSINGS, NOT for the LAND itself. They may, and were, even exiled for various lengths of time because of disobedience. But land has been promised to them FOREVER.
The promises were made to Abraham and his seed, not descendants. Paul makes clear that the seed is Christ. It's unbelief to ignore this

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. Galatians 3:16
 
Feb 17, 2023
2,323
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#39
The promises were made to Abraham and his seed, not descendants. Paul makes clear that the seed is Christ. It's unbelief to ignore this

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. Galatians 3:16

Jesus will reign from there for sure. But the Jews who finally see Jesus as their Messiah will live there too. And also gentile believers also.

It doesn't conflict at all.


💒
 

Komentaja

Well-known member
Jul 29, 2022
511
272
63
#40
No Israelites in their land, no Second Coming.

Period.
I agree it is clearly a requirement. Great information about the 2500 years you provided! Thanks. May I copy and use this?