Grace Alone
- Thread starter Anni
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
Spell check on my phone changed it to "God" of this world just before I posted and I did not catch it at first. It's actually "god" of this world (small g).
Works are essential and come naturally if you have faith on GOD, it is only giving back as GOD gave us, remember we seek to be like our heavenly father, not just hearing the good word and do nothing about it. This is very clear in scriptures and in the previous posts of this thread.You are thoroughly confused.Where do you attend church? Or do you attend church?
Peace
I am not a Calvinist but I attend a church that is primarily Calvinist, although it is not aggressively pushed. Scripture is preached and the members are wonderful prayerful people. Simple music without many bells and whistles, which I appreciate as it keeps away folks that come to church for entertainment. Still, I have close relationships with people in more charismatic circles. I think we need to stay in the scriptures first and foremost, and have a whole bunch of grace with respect to other professing Christians (that are pursuing righteousness) with a theology not identical to our own.
You're being ridiculous thinking you can work your way into God's favor.
WHY would one want to sit under false doctrine and support those that teach false doctrine??? Weird!
Jesus did the work, and man is called to abide in Christ and bare fruit... so they that do not are cut off and cast in to the fire according to what Jesus Christ says in John 15
Does anyone have the gonads to say Jesus is a liar???
Apparently the OSAS peoples do, cause that's the message of the Cherry Pickers!
Argue with Jesus about it... if one is not abiding IN HIM and producing good fruit, they are cut of.... according to Jesus.
English comprehension doesn't appear to be one of your gifts.
I've been seeking here and seeking there for fruits of the Spirit shown in @JimmyTheLock
(I'm a dedicated follower of Jesus...)
Hmm...
Galatians 5: 22-23. NIV But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
(I'm a dedicated follower of Jesus...)
Hmm...
Galatians 5: 22-23. NIV But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
When the OSAS peoples twist scripture and speak of their false doctrine... I have tendency to ignore what they are saying since it's all a hot, steaming, stink pile of horse hockey anyhow.
Not everyone who disagrees with me is a troll, yet you sure do exhibit troll behavior, including being an agitator. Not surprised you don't even bother to attend church.
More eisegesis and slander from the disgruntled shut in who suffers from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome. In John 15:2-6, the branches that bear fruit and remain are genuine believers (like the remaining 11 disciples). The self-attached branches that bear no fruit and do not remain are not genuine believers (like Judas Iscariot). In John 15:2, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.
Greek scholar AT Robertson points out that there are two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas.
John 15 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13) -- NONE.
John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the new covenant which was not yet fully established. Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no spiritual life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, Christ neither saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the dead self-attached fruitless branches are cut off.
There is a huge difference between these two positions:
1.) Our salvation requires us to be obeyers of God.
2.) Our salvation requires us to have first done a certain amount of obedience to God in order to earn it as the result as though it were a wage.
In Romans 2:13, only doers of the law will be justified, in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, and in Hebrews 5:9, Jesus has become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him, so while there are many verses like these that support #1, there are also many verses that deny #2, so there must be a reason why our salvation requires us to choose to be doers of the law other than in order to earn it as a wage. The problem is that when someone says something in support of #1, people tend think to mistake that as supporting #2 and will argue against #1 by citing verses that only speak against #2.
Every example of faith listed in Hebrews 11 is an example of works, un Psalms 119:29 and Exodus 33:13, they wanted God to be gracious to them by teaching them to obey His law, and in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, so salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone is not apart from works, but it is apart from works done for the purpose of earning it as a wage. In Romans 3:27-31, while we are justified by faith apart from works done for the purpose of earning our justification (by faith alone), the faith by which are are justified does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it (so faith is not alone apart from works, just alone apart from works done to earn our justification as a wage). This is why Luther said that an idle faith is not a justifying faith and saw that as being in accordance with the 5 Solas.
- Status