Soooo, which is it? Do you receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands? Water baptism? Believing? Acts is a transition book of what God was doing in the early church made up of Jews, and to the church that would be made up of Gentiles. Jews require a sing. Gentiles walk by faith.
Gospel Confusion...
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Soooo, which is it? Do you receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands? Water baptism? Believing? Acts is a transition book of what God was doing in the early church made up of Jews, and to the church that would be made up of Gentiles. Jews require a sing. Gentiles walk by faith.
Yes, although every wrong understanding of GW is not heresy, which refers to an understanding that contradicts the true Gospel.
Believer's baptism - good. Belief (faith in Jesus as Messiah & Lord) - essential. SB (HS indwelling) - essential.
WB - commanded as essential at first (in Matt. 28 & Acts 2-10), until better understood as a recommended work/rite
(and thus not commanded in later epistles).
1. I rightly divide the word of truth according to audience. All scripture is written for me, but not all is written to me.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
2. No water in Romans 6, but the spiritual baptism of being placed, immersed, into Christ.
Romans 6,
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
IF FOR sure does say water baptism, BUIRED WITH HIM BY BAPITSM.
When we get baptized we are immersed INTO HIM, when HE fills us with the Holy Ghost HE gets immersed INTO US.
When HE fills with HIS spirit we will speak in tongues.
3. Shall we continue in sin? God forbid. No, we should not. That is not the way a Christian with grace should think or behave. I am in Christ. I have his righteousness. Is Christ without sin? Yes, then so am I.
AMEN.
LOL, JESUS could fill you at any time.
Acts 2, they were wating and HE filled them all.
Acts 8, they had to send for Peter and John they came and laid hands on them.
Acts 10, when they heard the message JESUS filled them.
Acts 19, Paul laid hands on them.
I think your getting things mixed up.
How we get rid of our sins is being water baptized, something WE have to do.
When we get filled with the Holy Ghost is something JESUS does.
Need both to ENTER, John 3:5
You say "Acts is a transition book"
PROVE IT.
Just because you say it, does not make it true.
WE all need to walk by faith.
I see the transition occurring in Acts 16:31-34, where Paul told the jailer to believe in the Lord Jesus in order to be saved, NOT to believe and be WB in order to be saved. However, the jailer and others in his family who believed in God were WB. That is exactly what we Baptists believe.
Then in Acts 17:30-34 Paul told the Athenians to repent, which some did, but whether they were WB is not mentioned.
Then in Acts 19:1-6 Paul encountered some disciples of John who had been WB but had not been taught about SB,
so they received SB when Paul placed his hands on them.
Then in Acts 26:16-18, when Paul recounted his calling to King Agrippa, he quoted Jesus as saying, "I am sending you to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me." WB was not mentioned, which continued to be the case in Paul's epistles.
When someone is building a house the first they speak of and work on is the foundation and all of the work goes on the foundation.
After the FOUNDATION WAS LAID, WHY TALK ABOUT IT????
THEY KNEW IT, THEY SHARED IT, THEY ARE STANDING ON IT.
Paul speaking in,
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
WHAT WAS THAT MESSAGE?? The same on in the book of Acts.
The FOUNDATION WAS LAID in Acts 2.
JESUS told HIS disciples TO WAIT not to go out without the Holy Ghost.
After they received it, Peter GAVE THE FIRST FOUNDATION MESSAGE that was prophesied in Luke.
Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
This FOUNDATION MESSAGE was very clear and lines up with what JESUS said in John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Notice CAN'T ENTER HEAVEN WITHOUT BOTH.
The first FOUNDATION MESSAGE was given they OBEYED IT and three thousand souls were added.
They were told to go into ALL nations and preach THAT SAME FOUNDATION MESSAGE.
The second one was recorded in Acts 8 the Sameriantians heard the SAME FOUNDATION MESSAGE, they were baptized in JESUS name and days later JESUS filled them with the Holy Ghost. .
The third one recorded was in Acts 10, they heard the SAME FOUNDATION MESSAGE and JESUS filled them with the Holy Ghost and they were commanded to be baptized in JESUS name.
The forth FOUNDATION MESSAGE was given to the Ephesians in Acts 19, they were baptized in JESUS name and Paul laid hands on them and THEY received the Holy Ghost.
HOW MANY TIME DOES THE FOUNDATION HAVE TO BE LAID???
JESUS speaking AFTER HE SENT PEOPLE TO HELL BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE A GOOD FOUNDATION.
Matthew 7,
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO BE TOLD???
There was no transition that same FOUNDATION MESSAGE IT STILL STANDS TODAY.
We need to rightly divide the word,
Matthew, Mark, luke and John JESUS walked with us.
Acts THE BUILDING OF THE CHURCH THE FOUNDATION.
All books after that are letters to church's with the FOUNDATION of the book of Acts.
If water baptism wasn't necessary or important why did Paul speak about what it does in Romans 6?
If being filled with the Holy Ghost wasn't important way did Paul speak about what it does in 1 Cor 14?
Can you show me any place after the book of Acts where someone is told what they must do to be saved like in Acts 2:38 SPIFICE INSTRUCTIONS on what we must do.
The answer is NO.
But GWH (like Baptists generally) didn't say that water baptism and being filled with the Holy Spirit are not important. But thei are not a prerequisite for being saved. Baptism in water is a sign that one has been saved. The Philippian jailer was baptised once he had believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and was saved.
I don't get into denominations I like to stick with GODS word, denominations are man-made and they are all different with different opinions.
For instance, "Baptism in water is a sign that one has been saved"
No where can you find that in scripture.
Another for instance why do people think that just believe and your reborn?
No where is scripture does it say that.
Problem is JESUS said in John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
According to JESUS can't ENTER without both.
According to HIS word this is how we are reborn which line up with John 3:5
Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Exactly! Acts was transitional. The foundation cited in 1Corinthisans 3:11 is Christ, referring to faith in Christ's atonement
(Rom. 3:12-5:1). Instructions about baptisms are mentioned in Hebrews 6:2, which logically/semantically/mathematically had to be
that WB is a sign or rite portraying that a soul has been SB, since there is only one baptism (Eph. 4:5) into one body (Eph. 4:4, 1Cor. 12:13).
We could say that this understanding is like Christians generally, because the RC practice of infant sprinkling was a perversion,
corrected by the Anabaptists during the Protestant Reformation.
The actual words, "Baptism is a sign that we have been saved" are not in the bible, but their meaning is. Paul in Colossians 2:12 says that Christians were "buried with Him in baptism." That is surely a sign. We aren't literally buried with Christ, but baptism is an illustration.
As for why people think that just believe and your reborn, that is what Paul said to the jailer, except that he used the word "saved". It was only after he had believed that the jailer was baptised.
Acts is not a transitionl book, it is the FOUNDATION of the church.
FYI, water baptism is not a sign that the soul has been spirit baptized WHERE DOES THIS STUFF COME FROM???
Water baptism doesn't give a sign for nothing it's how we get rid of our sins. Act 2:38, 22:16
It's JESUS who fills a person with HIS SPIRIT and when it happens you will know as you will speak in tongues. Acts 2:33, Mark 16:17
Matthew 3:11-17
King James Version
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Yes, and I might mention that Ouch has contributed to our website, because I have been amending it to address his concerns.
Just now I added the Scripture you cited as supporting viewing WB as a sign, Colossians 2:12 (to Lesson 1, Part VI, "Actsists"),
so thanks to everyone for helping to arrive at the best understanding we can.
Why do we get baptized?
It's the only way to get rid of our sins.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Paul explains in detail what it represents.
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Along with, Paul in Colossians 2:12
All of your comments about the jailer are true, but why would a person need to be baptized if they were saved when they just believe?
To think like that you have to leave out the book of Acts, the building of the Church.
You have to disrare what JESUS said in John 3:5
Paul knows they needed to be baptized that's why he had them baptized.
Let me ask you have YOU RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST SINCE YOU HAVE BELIEVED????
You follow Paul only?
Acts 19
King James Version
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
NO? HOW WERE YOU BAPTIZED?
What you are doing is an extreme case of surmising and unwise.
Surmising should only be used when direct commands are not available. Your comments seem to be pushing the reader toward a certain narrative and not what is clearly written.
There is nothing written to suggest that water baptism for the remission of sins and the Gift of the Holy Spirit was to slowly fade away.
Your assertion is not presented textually proven but assumed because of the lack of certain words (water baptism) in peculiar verses. This is poor reasoning and I doubt you would use this reasoning on other issues or verses.
One of the last things mentioned by Jesus was the need for water baptism.
Mark 16:16 and Matthew 28:16-20
The lack of a subject being mentioned in a verse does not prove the subject has been negated. If this were so then nothing in the Bible would be safe.
Yes, and I might mention that Ouch has contributed to our website, because I have been amending it to address his concerns.
Just now I added the Scripture you cited as supporting viewing WB as a sign, Colossians 2:12 (to Lesson 1, Part VI, "Actsists"),
so thanks to everyone for helping to arrive at the best understanding we can.
LOL, I hope me contributing TO YOUR WEBsite with GOD'S word it helps people SEE.
Since I just share HIS words you don't have to be concerns about me.
I agree that baptism is not a sign that you are saved but baptism is called a pledge, a pledge that saves.
1 Peter 3:21
New International Version
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
The pronoun "it" refers to the pledge.
You fail to realize that you also surmise, and I understand that you disagree with my reasoning.
One of the last things said by Jesus was "You will be ever seeing but never perceiving,
for this people's heart has become calloused." (Acts 28:26-27)
He also said, "Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--
with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound
doctrine." (2Tim. 4:2-3)
And He also said, "This is God's command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one
another as he commanded us." (1John 3:23)
IOW, Jesus said a lot of things near the last part of GW in the NT.
The Gospel of the Kingdom that saves everyone who believes went out to the Jew first and then to the Gentile (Romans 1:16), so both Jews and Gentiles the same message. In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom that went out to the Jew first (Matthew 10:5-7) and then Jesus commissioned it to go out to the Gentiles (Matthew 28:16-20).
Paul also taught the Gospel of the Kingdom based on the Mosaic Law (Acts 20:24-25, 28:23). In Romans 15:4, Paul said that OT Scripture was written for our instruction, and in Romans 15:18-19, Paul fulfilled the Gospel by bringing Gentiles to full obedience to in word and in deed. Likewise, Romans 10:16, 1 Peter 4:17, and 2 Thessalonians 1:8 all speak against those who do not obey the Gospel.
In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in the Gospel of the Kingdom that was the focus of Christ’s ministry and the way to believe in what Christ accomplished the the cross in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law (Acts 21:20). While the message of the cross sounds like a different message, the way to believe it is exactly the same as the way to believe the Gospel of the Kingdom, so it is just a different way of speaking about the same message. Jesus graciously teaching us to be a doer of the Mosaic Law in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it.