Gospel Confusion...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
God Father sees the motive(s) and we all will be judged ny motive. To believe God or not believe God, God knows as in Roans 8t ells me so.
The statement, "It is a public testimony that you believe God in risen Son for you to love all in mercy and truth from God given you in risen Son for you," can be interpreted as a Christian profession of faith
. It centers on the core Christian belief that through faith in Jesus Christ, the risen Son of God, believers are empowered to love others with God's mercy and truth.
  • Believe God in Risen Son: This refers to the core Christian doctrine of Jesus Christ's resurrection. By rising from the dead, Jesus demonstrated his divine authority and conquered sin and death. For believers, this act is proof of their faith and the promise of eternal life.
  • "to love all in mercy and truth":
    • Love all: This reflects Jesus's commandment to love one another, and even one's enemies, as he has loved us. This love is not limited to those within the faith, but extends to all people.
John 13:34-35
Living Bible

34 “And so I am giving a new commandment to you now—love each other just as much as I love you.35 Your strong love for each other will prove to the world that you are my disciples.”

In past there were those, that I could not love, and yet God loves me and everyone else first through the cross. I finally saw my condemnation I had going through me, when I read Romans 2:1-4 and Romans 14:1-4
Love in truth to all, and if I hate, to say it in truth I hate, and I did hate, after receiving truth from God loving me anyways, I saw and changed willingly in trust to Father, Daddy, PaPa's down work though son as risen for us all. How could I hate anyone anymore, can you?
Born new, one as I cannot explain this love and mercy, not perfectly
yet stand in Thank you to God for me and everyone else as well, whether believe God yet or not yet.
Contentment is the word I have received from God, where no water Baptism saved anyone, yet was needed to get done to Jesus by John the Baptist a Levite priest, before the ministry of new life began.
Now is doen in the risen Son as proof of the gift given us to love all in the same mercy and truth given us first though Son for us all
Thanks as we each grow and learn new daily, I do not know all, I do know I am freed Col 2 thank you

So you refuse to see verse that proves being baptized is NOT for show!!

Then you can't show me any verses where it's for show???

You are right water baptism does not save anyone.

We need to belive, repent, get bapitzed in JESUS name and still need JESUS to fill us with HIS spirit.

It is the only way we can get rid of ours sins so it's a part of being reborn.

Sin separates us from GOD, if you never get rid of it you will never see him.

What do you think of these two verses?

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
 
Baptism here spoken of is not water Baptism
It is Spirit God Father's Spirit the Holy Spirit Baptism given to anyone Father decides righteously to give it to, knowing who is sincere, thank you.
Water Baptism does not remove sin. The shed blood of Jesus did that once for everyone as reconciled, the message given to us all, by the disciples 2 Cor 5:16-20. Water Baptism is not the washing away of sin(s) rather doing this is a good conscience between God and you personally, for saving you personally, where you have received the new life in God;s Spirit and Truth to lead you, you being willing, not forced to or manipulated to do it. It is a public testimony that you believe God in risen Son for you to love all in mercy and truth from God given you in risen Son for you. It is not to be liked, cared for by others, and be anyone better than others that do not or have not done it as religion teaches to do, it is a lie from the pits of Hell, to control people, when God came to free us in love and mercy to do the same for all.
Thanks and believe as you want to believe, I see to not live like a refugee, and if you aren't great hallelujah for you. If you still are in bondage, which I suspect you are and suspect you want to be a leader, and tell others how to behave or else you not in, that I suspect you are doing here. I trust God no matter what in the love and mercy of Son given me to be humbly confident in Love and I am a nobody, God Father and Son are my everything, whether one gets water baptized or not. God leads not me, you or anyone else, only God Father of Son for me at least
Love to you, even though many add to the done work of Son for them as if are a Luke 18:9-14 not seeing being forgiven by God is the key that opens the door to Heaven for them too. Thank you
Matthew 18:24-35 you are forgiven, reconciled by God through Son presently and forever, go forth and harm no one else no more. I assuredly do not care to be taken back to the King and get any of my deserved punishing I deserve, that God Father in Son took away for me, anyone else?
Thank you Lord, I am thankful, and seek to learn from you over self, or any other flesh people Phil 3:1-20


Miraculous Holy Spirit baptism only appears twice in the New Testament—once in Acts 2 on the Jews and again in Acts 10 on the gentiles. Both times it was for a “sign” ; in Acts 2, a sign that the apostles and their message was really from God. And in Acts 10, a sign that God accepted the gentiles into His kingdom. It was never used to save anyone. It was not for everyone—only those God selected. It was never something that you could go out and just do or get. God poured it out on them UNEXPECTANTLY. . They were not seeking it; they were not praying for it. They had no control over it at all. It was all God’s doing. Man had nothing to do with it.

The baptism that Jesus told His disciples to perform in the great commission ( Matthew 28:18-19 was a baptism that THEY PERFORMED. It was one administered by man. It was one that people had to “want” or at least be agreeable to. It was Not miraculous. It was an act performed by the person doing the baptizing and the one being baptized. Nothing like Holy Spirit baptism as we see in Acts 2 and Acts 10. This is water baptism, the kind John the Baptist performed as the forerunner of Christ. The same kind Peter talks about when he uses the water of the flood as a parallel. 1Peter 3:21. And Peter said THAT baptism SAVES US! The same kind the Ethiopian Eunuch submitted to in Acts 8 when they BOTH went down into the water both Phillip and the eunuch and he baptized him. Water baptism—not miraculous Holy Spirit baptism.

Acts 8, it was WATER baptism—not HolycSpirit baptism— in Samaria.; because they believed and were baptized in verse 12 but did NOT GET THE HOLY SPIRIT until verse 17. Read it. So their baptism in verse 12 could NOT have been miraculous Holy Spirit baptism. It was water baptism. Baptism in the name of Jesus was water baptism. The apostles in Acts 2 and the gentiles in Acts 10 were not baptized with Holy Spirit baptism in The name of Jesus. Nothing is said about that baptism being in the name of anyone. Water baptism is portrayed as a “burial.”—in water Romans 6. Where you go down into the water and you “rise up” out of the water ” a new person. The evidence is overwhelming.

Annanias told Paul to arise and BE BAPTIZED. You don’t get Holy Spirit baptism that way. You don’t get to dictate to God when you want to get Holy Spirit baptism. That is not the picture of Miraculous Holy Spirit baptism in Acts 2 and 10. It fell on them SUDDENLY, UNEXPECTANTLY, and without wanting it, seeking it, or asking for it. They did not seek it for themselves. It just happened at God’s discretion. They are totally different; and they had totally different purposes. One was for a “sign” and the other ( water) was for salvation. Which is exactly why Peter COMMANDED the gentiles to be water baptized in Acts 10 AFTER God poured out the Holy Spirit on them. Holy Spirit baptism did not save them. They had to be be baptized in the name of Jesus, into His DEATH ( Roman’s 6) where Jesus shed His blood,where that same blood was applied to them and forgave their sins. This is in harmony with what Peter said in Acts 2:38–“…be baptized…for the forgiveness of your sins.” And in harmony with what Annanias told Paul in Acts 22:16- “…WASH AWAY. Your sins.” That only happens in water baptism.
 
If your interested in why the thief didn't need to be baptized.

We need to righty divide the word.

When the thief on the cross died, he died OT laws. Where people had to take a sacrifice to the high priests ones a year to have their sins forgiven GOD RULES.

.
No one was saved under OT Law.

so this explanation failed before it even starts.

Salvation has been by grace through faith since adam first sinned.. Jesus is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. His gospel never changed. the only thing different for us, is we KNOW the means of our salvation. they just had faith God would provide a way. (see abraham in rom 4 and gen 15)
 
Miraculous Holy Spirit baptism only appears twice in the New Testament—once in Acts 2 on the Jews and again in Acts 10 on the gentiles. Both times it was for a “sign” ; in Acts 2, a sign that the apostles and their message was really from God. And in Acts 10, a sign that God accepted the gentiles into His kingdom. It was never used to save anyone. It was not for everyone—only those God selected. It was never something that you could go out and just do or get. God poured it out on them UNEXPECTANTLY. . They were not seeking it; they were not praying for it. They had no control over it at all. It was all God’s doing. Man had nothing to do with it.

The baptism that Jesus told His disciples to perform in the great commission ( Matthew 28:18-19 was a baptism that THEY PERFORMED. It was one administered by man. It was one that people had to “want” or at least be agreeable to. It was Not miraculous. It was an act performed by the person doing the baptizing and the one being baptized. Nothing like Holy Spirit baptism as we see in Acts 2 and Acts 10. This is water baptism, the kind John the Baptist performed as the forerunner of Christ. The same kind Peter talks about when he uses the water of the flood as a parallel. 1Peter 3:21. And Peter said THAT baptism SAVES US! The same kind the Ethiopian Eunuch submitted to in Acts 8 when they BOTH went down into the water both Phillip and the eunuch and he baptized him. Water baptism—not miraculous Holy Spirit baptism.

Acts 8, it was WATER baptism—not HolycSpirit baptism— in Samaria.; because they believed and were baptized in verse 12 but did NOT GET THE HOLY SPIRIT until verse 17. Read it. So their baptism in verse 12 could NOT have been miraculous Holy Spirit baptism. It was water baptism. Baptism in the name of Jesus was water baptism. The apostles in Acts 2 and the gentiles in Acts 10 were not baptized with Holy Spirit baptism in The name of Jesus. Nothing is said about that baptism being in the name of anyone. Water baptism is portrayed as a “burial.”—in water Romans 6. Where you go down into the water and you “rise up” out of the water ” a new person. The evidence is overwhelming.

Annanias told Paul to arise and BE BAPTIZED. You don’t get Holy Spirit baptism that way. You don’t get to dictate to God when you want to get Holy Spirit baptism. That is not the picture of Miraculous Holy Spirit baptism in Acts 2 and 10. It fell on them SUDDENLY, UNEXPECTANTLY, and without wanting it, seeking it, or asking for it. They did not seek it for themselves. It just happened at God’s discretion. They are totally different; and they had totally different purposes. One was for a “sign” and the other ( water) was for salvation. Which is exactly why Peter COMMANDED the gentiles to be water baptized in Acts 10 AFTER God poured out the Holy Spirit on them. Holy Spirit baptism did not save them. They had to be be baptized in the name of Jesus, into His DEATH ( Roman’s 6) where Jesus shed His blood,where that same blood was applied to them and forgave their sins. This is in harmony with what Peter said in Acts 2:38–“…be baptized…for the forgiveness of your sins.” And in harmony with what Annanias told Paul in Acts 22:16- “…WASH AWAY. Your sins.” That only happens in water baptism.

okay, thanks I love each person's take, as you said only Daddy, PaPa, Father can do it,
I agree, Dad did it all, Sonas the first willing vessel for us all to see to be willing, nevertheless Father, not my will, your will
Thank you, and Paul saw they only received water Baptism. He then was led and laid hands on them and they received the true Holy Spirit Baptism of God Father and Son for everyone to believe and jot deny God, even as one reads in the book of Job. Job would not deny God and so saw through, since would not deny God.
Thanks
 
Not my thoughts, BUT HIS WORD.

1. To the ALL nation, Matthew 28:19
2. Death burial and resurrection. Believe, repent, get baptized in JESUS name for remission of sins and pray for JESUS to fill you with the Holy Ghost.

3 and 4.

Paul was sent to the Gentiles BUT not just the Gentiles he spoke to ALL.

GOD told Ananias.
Acts 9
13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Paul preached the same message, 20 YEARS after the day of Pentecost.
Acts 19: And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

After he baptized and land hands on the Ephesus he did this.
10 And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.

There is ONLY ONE GOSPEL and your right all 12 preached the same message.

JESUS told HIS DISCIPLES,
Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

They waited and this happened.
Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

The first message to be preached.
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Peter, the FIRST message.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Three thousand souls were added using that message.

Wrong. Paul did not preach precisely the same gospel as did the eleven.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

No mention for any requirement to be water baptized, as was preached by the eleven, and you're going to sit there and tell us they all preached the same gospel? Dare we be intellectually honest here, either Paul was mistaken and remiss in his responsibility to preach all the elements necessary for salvation, or he was given the Gospel of Grace that was not preached by the eleven to Israel.

Dare we be intellectually honest:

Acts 2:36-39
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

That was preached ONLY to Jews by Peter. There were no Gentiles present for that observance to whom they were speaking...unless someone here is going to inject what isn't there, as some are in the practice of doing, such as injecting the idea these are the same gospel message with all the exact same elements. That's utterly false and an ignoring for the responsibility for us to all be intellectually honest in relation to ALL of scripture.

Acts 21:18-21
18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

Imagine that. Paul speaking a completely opposite message that denies following the Law of Moses and its circumcision that was all still being followed by the believing Jews and something anyone who reads Paul's message to the Gentiles can confirm; so that accusation was true of which Paul was guilty, but only because THAT is the message Christ commanded Paul to preach.

So, failure to rightly divide the word of truth once again wins out in your theological mish-mash of intermixing what doesn't belong together, thus causing the intellectual dishonesty in your theological construct.

Show to us where Peter or the other ten ever preached to Israel this message:

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Sitting there, claiming they all allegedly preached the same gospel...utter nonsense! That's the kind of garbage fodder one can hear in most Evangelical cults of false teaching and biblical destruction of the very Book they claim to honor and follow. The hypocrisy of it all, by pointing at fringe elements that are easily stitched together to try and make it say what one wants, that's indeed a devilish trick that does work, I must admit, in the minds of those who fail to put on their critical thinking caps. If only more people would list the elements stated in the different gospel messages, they would see the glaring difference, but, hey, believe what you want. I'm not the one who will stand before the Lord to answer for having preached a gospel message to the lost that does not apply to us today.

MM
 
  • Like
Reactions: Everlasting-Grace
Baptism here spoken of is not water Baptism

Since there are scriptures that refer to baptism in water, we generally take references to baptism to refer to baptizing in water unless there is a reason to think otherwise from the context.


Acts 8:36–38 (KJV)
“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?” “And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” “And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”​

Acts 10:47–48 (KJV)
“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?” “And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”​
 
Thank you, MM, when I was under Law, for a long time. I was so stressed and in a mess. Finally saw I was doing what is done by Son for us all, to myself and never was free
I accused, I abused, and excused myself
I differently now
Thanking Father and Son as Won (One) for us all to be new in the same love and mercy give us all by Father through Son's don e work, proven, once risen never to doe for anymore sin ever again
This floors me daily as I see new and only busy with standing in truth, even off have to say it. Yet say it as led not as I think, thank you
 
Thank you, MM, when I was under Law, for a long time. I was so stressed and in a mess. Finally saw I was doing what is done by Son for us all, to myself and never was free
I accused, I abused, and excused myself
I differently now
Thanking Father and Son as Won (One) for us all to be new in the same love and mercy give us all by Father through Son's don e work, proven, once risen never to doe for anymore sin ever again
This floors me daily as I see new and only busy with standing in truth, even off have to say it. Yet say it as led not as I think, thank you

It's wonderful that you found that release from guilt and condemnation that the Law brings to those who place themselves under it, which includes those who believe in the loss of salvation, as is the SEAL of Holy Spirit were too weak to hold one and that the Father would ever forfeit His own Spirit with His having given His Spirit in EARNEST. Why so many miss this completely escapes me.

MM
 
  • Like
Reactions: Everlasting-Grace
No one was saved under OT Law.

so this explanation failed before it even starts.

Salvation has been by grace through faith since adam first sinned.. Jesus is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. His gospel never changed. the only thing different for us, is we KNOW the means of our salvation. they just had faith God would provide a way. (see abraham in rom 4 and gen 15)
No one in was saved under OT law?

No one? strange, not even the theif?

We are saved by grace, tell me what a person has to do to be reborn.

Keep in mind, JESUS said we CAN'T ENTER without being born of water and of spirit.

How do we get rid of our sins? Or don't we have to?
 
Wrong. Paul did not preach precisely the same gospel as did the eleven.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

No mention for any requirement to be water baptized, as was preached by the eleven, and you're going to sit there and tell us they all preached the same gospel? Dare we be intellectually honest here, either Paul was mistaken and remiss in his responsibility to preach all the elements necessary for salvation, or he was given the Gospel of Grace that was not preached by the eleven to Israel.

Dare we be intellectually honest:

Acts 2:36-39
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

That was preached ONLY to Jews by Peter. There were no Gentiles present for that observance to whom they were speaking...unless someone here is going to inject what isn't there, as some are in the practice of doing, such as injecting the idea these are the same gospel message with all the exact same elements. That's utterly false and an ignoring for the responsibility for us to all be intellectually honest in relation to ALL of scripture.

Acts 21:18-21
18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

Imagine that. Paul speaking a completely opposite message that denies following the Law of Moses and its circumcision that was all still being followed by the believing Jews and something anyone who reads Paul's message to the Gentiles can confirm; so that accusation was true of which Paul was guilty, but only because THAT is the message Christ commanded Paul to preach.

So, failure to rightly divide the word of truth once again wins out in your theological mish-mash of intermixing what doesn't belong together, thus causing the intellectual dishonesty in your theological construct.

Show to us where Peter or the other ten ever preached to Israel this message:

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Sitting there, claiming they all allegedly preached the same gospel...utter nonsense! That's the kind of garbage fodder one can hear in most Evangelical cults of false teaching and biblical destruction of the very Book they claim to honor and follow. The hypocrisy of it all, by pointing at fringe elements that are easily stitched together to try and make it say what one wants, that's indeed a devilish trick that does work, I must admit, in the minds of those who fail to put on their critical thinking caps. If only more people would list the elements stated in the different gospel messages, they would see the glaring difference, but, hey, believe what you want. I'm not the one who will stand before the Lord to answer for having preached a gospel message to the lost that does not apply to us today.

MM
He did???

Let's rightly divide the word.

What gospel did Paul preach in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? 1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you,

Since he was talking to the church he started in Corinthian was you there to hear it?

1 Corinthians 1
1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

Acts 2:36-39 Did you notice verse 39? For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are (((afar off))), even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Wonder who was speaking in Acts 2:38? Peter or JESUS? Acts 1:2

Did you forget what JESUS told Peter in Matthew, Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach (((all nations))), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Who took the message to the Samaritans? Phillip who sent for Peter and John to come pray for them to get the Holy Ghost.

Who was the one who took the message to the Gentiles in Acts 10? Yep Peter

WHO preached the same message to the Ephesians app, years after the day of Pentecost?
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Yep Paul which was the same message that he preached to the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 if you were there to hear it.

After he baptized and land hands on the Ephesus he did this.
Acts 19:10 And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.

What do you think he was preaching?

Acts 21 That is speaking about the Jew keeping the OT laws and the Gentiles don't have to nothing to do with Paul preaching a different message.

We are saved by grace, again Paul was speaking to the church he started in Ephesus.
Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

If Paul did not preach what Peter preached WHY was Paul explaining the purpose of baptism in Romans 6?

If Paul did not preach what Peter preached WHY was Paul explaining the purpose of Holy Ghost and all that came with it in 1 Corinthians 14?

Why? BOTH are necessary to be reborn.

Was Paul baptized in JESUS name?

Did Paul speak in tongues?

If you notice I don't get in to the name calling and insults.
 
He did???

Let's rightly divide the word.

What gospel did Paul preach in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? 1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you,

Since he was talking to the church he started in Corinthian was you there to hear it?

We didn't have to be there to hear it. He stated what he spoke to them in the past, and the elements he stated did not at all include the requirement for water baptism. If you think it's in that context, then please point it out. I'd very much like to see it. One fella tried to foist upon us the idea that Paul was only "summarizing."

The horror of that type of ASSumption is that it's an accusation against Paul for leaving out an alleged critical element for salvation; as if Paul were a bungling fool to sin by omission.

Folks, if someone tries to unload that kind of garbage as some sort of theological truth, just walk away. That level of depravity in judging a man they've never met, it's not worth trying to convince a fool of his foolishness in trying to characterize Paul down that their own level of imprecision, especially given what Paul said in that ALL of scripture is inspired and the very word of God. Is God remiss in conveying the critical elements of salvation? No, but some in this world think God to be some sort of boob who doesn't know what He's doing.

1 Corinthians 1
1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

Ok, so what's your point?

Acts 2:36-39 Did you notice verse 39? For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are (((afar off))), even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Wonder who was speaking in Acts 2:38? Peter or JESUS? Acts 1:2

Yes, the Jews were scattered all across that region, including Asia Minor. If you're now going to blunder into the error of Peter demanding the eleven preach to Gentiles after Christ commanded them not to do that very thing, then you really need to study your Bible more closely:

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Was Jesus confused, or Peter? I mean, they had their marching instructions, and now you're making Peter out to be a disobedient lout.

Did you forget what JESUS told Peter in Matthew, Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach (((all nations))), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Who took the message to the Samaritans? Phillip who sent for Peter and John to come pray for them to get the Holy Ghost.

Who was the one who took the message to the Gentiles in Acts 10? Yep Peter[/QUOTE]

Well, you do love to blunder about blindly. Let's look at what is stated in scripture, because Peter also separated himself from the Gentiles because of his belief that there was still a wall of partition, separating Jews from Gentiles:

Galatians 2:6-8
6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person: for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8 For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:

I made lots of emphasis in those verses to hopefully get the obvious to stand out for you. Peter, who did indeed speak to a very small handful of Gentiles so far as we know, his ministry was to Israel, as was the case with the other ten or eleven (since we don't know what Matthias ever did, if anything). There were two different gospels, each meant for a different audience...one to Israel and another to Gentiles. Some have even tried to claim that the verbiage was only pointing out two different groupings with the same gospel preached to both, which doesn't stand up to the scrutiny of the KJV English nor to the Greek from which it was translated.

WHO preached the same message to the Ephesians app, years after the day of Pentecost?
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Because Paul happened to know that they had been baptized doesn't mean that he was commanding it. You will search in vain ONE TIME where Paul commanded that all believers be water baptized unto the remission of sins. Peter, yes, he did command that ONLY to his fellow Jews in Acts 2. Dare go there into that text and observe who was his audience. The Church was FIRST populated ONLY with Jews and Proselytes to Judaism!

Yep Paul which was the same message that he preached to the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 if you were there to hear it.

Your smug indifference to the text and to systematic study speaks for itself. You're trying to make scripture say what YOU want it to say.

After he baptized and land hands on the Ephesus he did this.
Acts 19:10 And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.

What do you think he was preaching?

Acts 21 That is speaking about the Jew keeping the OT laws and the Gentiles don't have to nothing to do with Paul preaching a different message.

What? Please clarify this. Be more succinct.

We are saved by grace, again Paul was speaking to the church he started in Ephesus.
Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

If Paul did not preach what Peter preached WHY was Paul explaining the purpose of baptism in Romans 6?

Please show to us where Paul ever said to the Romans that they must be water baptized, and I will show this to you:

1 Corinthians 1:14-17
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

See that? John the Baptist preached his gospel AND he baptized, but Paul preached his gospel and baptized very few. If water baptism were such an important feature in Paul's Gospel, then why would he leave out doing water baptism? For you to try and prove water baptism a command from Paul according to the mystery revealed to him that, had it been known to Satan and his princes, he would not have crucified the Lord of Glory. You're missing the forest for the trees in all this. I've shown to you where Christ commanded His apostles to NOT go to the Gentiles, but Peter did so anyway. Some people think Christ is fickle by commanding the apostles on one hand to NOT go to the Gentiles nor the Samaritans, THEN He tells them to allegedly go to the Gentiles and Samaritans later on. Make up your minds. Otherwise stop trying to make God out to be so inconsistent. No wonder pagans don't see the God of the Bible as being any better than Buddha, Krishna or any other mere man who was fickle and inconsistent...except that there are those who think that there are "many paths to god..."

If Paul did not preach what Peter preached WHY was Paul explaining the purpose of Holy Ghost and all that came with it in 1 Corinthians 14?

If you would stop confusing spiritual baptism with water baptism, your confusions over all this would cease. We have ALL been spiritually baptized and have received Holy Spirit who first believed in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ on the third day for our sins. Water baptism does nothing in relation to our receiving salvation. It's simply getting wet as a public show of an inner work, which is fine. Anyone who has not been water baptized after believing in what Christ accomplished for us, that will not at all deter them from being filled with Holy Spirit. If you believe otherwise, then you do so at the exclusion of scripture in the midst of your own contrived religion.

So, the new birth, under Paul's Gospel which did NOT include the requirement for water baptism, of which you have not yet proven otherwise, one is saved and transformed...period.

MM
 
Since there are scriptures that refer to baptism in water, we generally take references to baptism to refer to baptizing in water unless there is a reason to think otherwise from the context.


Acts 8:36–38 (KJV)
“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?” “And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” “And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”​

Acts 10:47–48 (KJV)
“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?” “And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”​

I believe and see and willing got water baptized by Father through risen Son as a good conscience between Father and me, respectfully
Not a have do to be made new from Daddy, PaPa, Father, a free choice I made willingly, anyone else
Who is under Law, a have to or else
Who is upholding Law and are willing to?
Love from God to all who truthfully to me only seeks the willing, as son did willingly go to the cross once fr us all willingly not having to
thank you
 
No one in was saved under OT law?

Some people out there seem to love touting the antithesis to what scripture actually says:

1 Kings 8:30 And hearken thou to the supplication of thy servant, and of thy people Israel, when they shall pray toward this place: and hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place: and when thou hearest, forgive.

2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Now, this is the difference between those who would end up in Abraham's Bosom and those who would end up on the side of torment in Sheol. Those in Abraham's Bosom are saved, and those on the side of torment are condemned and will be judged into everlasting fire in Hell at the Great White Throne Judgement.

So, some out there may very well have some explaining to do for their false doctrinal stance and teaching of others from their repertoire of outright falsehoods. As an Israeli, to me their beliefs are offensive and downright ignorant and stupid sounding. Nobody was ever saved BY the Law, but under it, until after Yahshuah said on that cross, "It is FINISHED." some out there really need to get some instruction in the midst of whoopins for their indifference to study.

No one? strange, not even the theif?

We are saved by grace, tell me what a person has to do to be reborn.

They were not saved by grace through faith as we are today...at laest, not in the sense ot being sealed by Holy Spirit and having Holy Spirit as earnest of salvation. That ONLY is under the Gospel of Grace. They in ancient times had to OBEY the Law to the best of their ability as a show of their faith. THAT is what brought about forgiveness of their sins and salvation in their future, enduring unto the end of their lives on this earth.

Whomever said this to which you are responding, have pity on him or her.

Keep in mind, JESUS said we CAN'T ENTER without being born of water and of spirit.

Those who were under the Kingdom Gospel did indeed have to be water baptized for the remission of their sins, otherwise not saved BECAUSE their sins were not remitted without obedience. Water baptism isn't some magical cleansing since it's the HEART the Lord looks upon. The thief on the cross didn't come down off there to be water baptized, and was still saved. The Lord is not so tyrannical that He would hold all to what they could not accomplish as a showing for obedience as a living out of their faith.

How do we get rid of our sins? Or don't we have to?

We can't get rid of our sins. That's ONLY a work of the Lord. That's why the work of water baptism is not at all a part of what saves us today. Those who believe in works-based salvation for us today do not believe in the Bible, but rather something of their own making, or the cruddy teachings of their false teaching pastors. Those who boast of having been water baptized are BOASTING:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Are you boasting now, and/or anyone else?

MM
 
  • Like
Reactions: DeanM
When false teaching pastors jam into the portion of the text what was done AFTER salvation, that's a creation of doctrine that the text simply doesn't support. Pagan pastors do that kind of crap to the text all the time, and drag along with them their blind followers, thus the blind leading the blind. Leave that to them and the pagan pastors who teach such falsehoods to them by which those followers BOAST about their baptismal WORKS.

Leave boasting to the pagans!

MM
 
  • Like
Reactions: Everlasting-Grace
We can't get rid of our sins. That's ONLY a work of the Lord. That's why the work of water baptism is not at all a part of what saves us today. Those who believe in works-based salvation for us today do not believe in the Bible, but rather something of their own making, or the cruddy teachings of their false teaching pastors. Those who boast of having been water baptized are BOASTING:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Are you boasting now, and/or anyone else?

MM
I said the above to him so many times.

Amen.
Winner.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Everlasting-Grace
It's wonderful that you found that release from guilt and condemnation that the Law brings to those who place themselves under it, which includes those who believe in the loss of salvation, as is the SEAL of Holy Spirit were too weak to hold one and that the Father would ever forfeit His own Spirit with His having given His Spirit in EARNEST. Why so many miss this completely escapes me.

MM

Why? Religion is why, each religion built on the corner of walk and do not walk, under Law!
Religion is under Law, trying to obey what no flesh other than Son's did first fro us to rest in thanksgiving and praise over it.
I. love because Father Loved me first, next?
Tyranny is to believe in God and lose freedom to choose, which is Evil that performs as good and is not. It is the self playing god.
God is the one and only one good, to this day, Jesus definitely said this, in Matthew 19 and that the only way in, is by Father, the only one good.
Now I have a response, I can take this forgiveness for granted and use it fruitlessly, appearing as got it, in pride and a person better than others.

Or, I can Humbly, confidently be in thanksgiving and praise over it, not doing anymore dead works. I escaped religions thrall, thanks to Father and Son being given the Holy Spirit, Father himself to now lead, not me anymore (Not that I always do that, learning to daily). Religion is only a Do it yourself, to get someone, something to respond to you. If I get anyone to respond to me and follow me, then that would make me god of those that seek God, would it not?
I see too respond to God in Thanksgiving and praise and the response is I love everyone the same, as Jesus definitely did, by going to that cross willingly first for us to be reconciled first, then new life gets set in one that will not stop belief to God, I see, and am still no better than anyone else using the allegory of Luke 18:9-14
Thank you Father, I am forgiven by Son for me through his love and mercy for us all. I believe you, I never know how I will get through the next trouble, I just thank you, I will, even if I have to go through the fire first. You are Holy and your fire will not burn me, so I stand in trust to you to keep me safe as you did with Meshach, Abenigo, and one other I do not remember the name, yet you saved these three. I trust you will do this of run all, and if not, better yet, wee get to go home, wow, a win either way/ Romans 14 says much deep stuff, i9t is about the food sacrificed then, and does not stop there, goes deeper, wider and higher than I could ever imagine or see, thank you
Yet Daddy, PaPa, Father reveals it to each when it is time to see it and still not get proud over it, or guilty either anymore
 
Some people out there seem to love touting the antithesis to what scripture actually says:

1 Kings 8:30 And hearken thou to the supplication of thy servant, and of thy people Israel, when they shall pray toward this place: and hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place: and when thou hearest, forgive.

2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Now, this is the difference between those who would end up in Abraham's Bosom and those who would end up on the side of torment in Sheol. Those in Abraham's Bosom are saved, and those on the side of torment are condemned and will be judged into everlasting fire in Hell at the Great White Throne Judgement.

So, some out there may very well have some explaining to do for their false doctrinal stance and teaching of others from their repertoire of outright falsehoods. As an Israeli, to me their beliefs are offensive and downright ignorant and stupid sounding. Nobody was ever saved BY the Law, but under it, until after Yahshuah said on that cross, "It is FINISHED." some out there really need to get some instruction in the midst of whoopins for their indifference to study.



They were not saved by grace through faith as we are today...at laest, not in the sense ot being sealed by Holy Spirit and having Holy Spirit as earnest of salvation. That ONLY is under the Gospel of Grace. They in ancient times had to OBEY the Law to the best of their ability as a show of their faith. THAT is what brought about forgiveness of their sins and salvation in their future, enduring unto the end of their lives on this earth.

Whomever said this to which you are responding, have pity on him or her.



Those who were under the Kingdom Gospel did indeed have to be water baptized for the remission of their sins, otherwise not saved BECAUSE their sins were not remitted without obedience. Water baptism isn't some magical cleansing since it's the HEART the Lord looks upon. The thief on the cross didn't come down off there to be water baptized, and was still saved. The Lord is not so tyrannical that He would hold all to what they could not accomplish as a showing for obedience as a living out of their faith.



We can't get rid of our sins. That's ONLY a work of the Lord. That's why the work of water baptism is not at all a part of what saves us today. Those who believe in works-based salvation for us today do not believe in the Bible, but rather something of their own making, or the cruddy teachings of their false teaching pastors. Those who boast of having been water baptized are BOASTING:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Are you boasting now, and/or anyone else?

MM

If you want to debate me, share everything I said to someone els
I said the above to him so many times.

Amen.
Winner.
Repeating it does not make it true.
 
Some people out there seem to love touting the antithesis to what scripture actually says:

1 Kings 8:30 And hearken thou to the supplication of thy servant, and of thy people Israel, when they shall pray toward this place: and hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place: and when thou hearest, forgive.

2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Now, this is the difference between those who would end up in Abraham's Bosom and those who would end up on the side of torment in Sheol. Those in Abraham's Bosom are saved, and those on the side of torment are condemned and will be judged into everlasting fire in Hell at the Great White Throne Judgement.

So, some out there may very well have some explaining to do for their false doctrinal stance and teaching of others from their repertoire of outright falsehoods. As an Israeli, to me their beliefs are offensive and downright ignorant and stupid sounding. Nobody was ever saved BY the Law, but under it, until after Yahshuah said on that cross, "It is FINISHED." some out there really need to get some instruction in the midst of whoopins for their indifference to study.



They were not saved by grace through faith as we are today...at laest, not in the sense ot being sealed by Holy Spirit and having Holy Spirit as earnest of salvation. That ONLY is under the Gospel of Grace. They in ancient times had to OBEY the Law to the best of their ability as a show of their faith. THAT is what brought about forgiveness of their sins and salvation in their future, enduring unto the end of their lives on this earth.

Whomever said this to which you are responding, have pity on him or her.



Those who were under the Kingdom Gospel did indeed have to be water baptized for the remission of their sins, otherwise not saved BECAUSE their sins were not remitted without obedience. Water baptism isn't some magical cleansing since it's the HEART the Lord looks upon. The thief on the cross didn't come down off there to be water baptized, and was still saved. The Lord is not so tyrannical that He would hold all to what they could not accomplish as a showing for obedience as a living out of their faith.



We can't get rid of our sins. That's ONLY a work of the Lord. That's why the work of water baptism is not at all a part of what saves us today. Those who believe in works-based salvation for us today do not believe in the Bible, but rather something of their own making, or the cruddy teachings of their false teaching pastors. Those who boast of having been water baptized are BOASTING:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Are you boasting now, and/or anyone else?

MM

Do you have the ability to debate using HIS word and not just telling me what the deal is?

Are we still born in sin?

Do we have to get rid of sin to be reborn?

If so how do we get rid of our sins?

If not why?