God LIED!

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GodsGrace101 said:
There's a middle aged man here in the town where I live that keeps what he needs to live and gives away the rest of his pay to those in need. He's not married and is happy to do this...
We are not all called to do this....But he's responding to God's call for HIS life.
And, yes, the good we could do will come naturally for those born of above.
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So long as it's from the mans heart, and not to do works, he is then in good shape.
 
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Goodnewsman said:
I think i will believe the word of God over Charles
John 15:5-6 (KJV)
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
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Oy vey.

That verse is talking about false professors in Christ. Like Judas, or those Jews who "tasted" of the "heavenly gift" but went back to Judaism.
 
louis said:
So long as it's from the mans heart, and not to do works, he is then in good shape.
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I agree with you...
BUT
I'm getting a little tired of this fear of works.
Do you believe that persons that are born again do things out of their heart that has been changed?

Works means that we're trying to get to heaven by things that we do and not be knowing our Lord and Savior.

No one is saved by works. Why are we so afraid of them??

I think good comes from a good heart
and evil comes from an evil heart.
Surely God is good and we are good.

(please don't quote Luke 18:19!)
 
Budman said:
No, you can't.

Charles Stanley said it best; Salvation is a gift. You can give it back only if the giver (God) accepts the return, and God has a no-return policy. There is absolutely no example in the bible that God has ever taken back from a believer the gift of salvation once it has been given. His love would keep Him from doing so. And in no way can it be taken back. A gift that can/will be taken back is no gift at all. True gifts have no strings attached. Once you place a condition of any kind on a gift, it becomes a trade, not a gift.

Christ came to seek and to save the lost. Why would He take back what He came to give?
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HE DOSN
Budman said:
Oy vey.

That verse is talking about false professors in Christ. Like Judas, or those Jews who "tasted" of the "heavenly gift" but went back to Judaism.[/QUOTE

Instead of making a wild claim about the verses I quote and then dismiss them, please prove to me this is talking about"false professors"

He said " if any man"
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GodsGrace101 said:
I agree with you...
BUT
I'm getting a little tired of this fear of works.
Do you believe that persons that are born again do things out of their heart that has been changed?

Works means that we're trying to get to heaven by things that we do and not be knowing our Lord and Savior.

No one is saved by works. Why are we so afraid of them??

I think good comes from a good heart
and evil comes from an evil heart.
Surely God is good and we are good.

(please don't quote Luke 18:19!)
Click to expand...
I agree with you that trying to get to heaven by doing works is not the same as doing something because you love your neighbor, which is to know the Lord.
 
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Budman said:
Oy vey.

That verse is talking about false professors in Christ. Like Judas, or those Jews who "tasted" of the "heavenly gift" but went back to Judaism.
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Is that how you deal with scripture you don't like, just rip it out and say that's for somebody else???

I challenge you to prove that this verse is talking about false professors of christ. He is talking about branches that is connected and part of the Vine
 
louis said:
I agree with you that trying to get to heaven by doing works is not the same as doing something because you love your neighbor, which is to know the Lord.
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We love because he first loved us,

Where did we experience that love? At our adoption as sons and dauhters.
 
Goodnewsman said:
Is that how you deal with scripture you don't like, just rip it out and say that's for somebody else???

I challenge you to prove that this verse is talking about false professors of christ. He is talking about branches that is connected and part of the Vine
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Guess your challenge won't be met...
Some people like cute terms, repeat things like a parrot,
and pick and choose which verses they'll agree with.

Very bad way to serve God and study His word.

Or, maybe some just don't understand scripture...
 
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Goodnewsman said:
Is that how you deal with scripture you don't like, just rip it out and say that's for somebody else???

I challenge you to prove that this verse is talking about false professors of christ. He is talking about branches that is connected and part of the Vine
Click to expand...

It's both. As an allegory, it includes those like Judas who had a superficial connection - an outward appearance - and those in verse 6 Jesus mentions those who do not abide in Him (not did and now no longer) meaning - unbelievers, and those believers who neglect bearing fruit for the lord. Another example being the parable of the seed and soils in Matthew 13:1-58.

But even it means true believers only, it has nothing to do with losing salvation and being cast into hell. As far as "they are burned" is concerned, neither hell, the lake of fire, or the second death is referenced at all - or any statement that indicates that this is an everlasting burning. This burning is temporal.

Born again believers can never be eternally condemned (as my OP clearly proves) but they can experience temporal judgment - even to the point of premature physical death (1 Corinthians 11:30, James 5:19-20, 1 John 5:16). But such divine discipline might not lead to premature death if the believer corrects the behavior.

Of the three branches that are mentioned, two refer to believers (those branches that bear fruit and are pruned, and those that bear no fruit, so God "lifts them up" so that they will) and the third branch that does not abide (non-believers in Christ) that are gathered up and burned.
 
Budman said:
It's both. As an allegory, it includes those like Judas who had a superficial connection - an outward appearance - and those in verse 6 Jesus mentions those who do not abide in Him (not did and now no longer) meaning - unbelievers, and those believers who neglect bearing fruit for the lord. Another example being the parable of the seed and soils in Matthew 13:1-58.

But even it means true believers only, it has nothing to do with losing salvation and being cast into hell. As far as "they are burned" is concerned, neither hell, the lake of fire, or the second death is referenced at all - or any statement that indicates that this is an everlasting burning. This burning is temporal.

Born again believers can never be eternally condemned (as my OP clearly proves) but they can experience temporal judgment - even to the point of premature physical death (1 Corinthians 11:30, James 5:19-20, 1 John 5:16). But such divine discipline might not lead to premature death if the believer corrects the behavior.

Of the three branches that are mentioned, two refer to believers (those branches that bear fruit and are pruned, and those that bear no fruit, so God "lifts them up" so that they will) and the third branch that does not abide (non-believers in Christ) that are gathered up and burned.
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Jesus used allegories for a reason.
It's very easy to understand about vines and trees and plants since most were farmers or, at least, farmed for their food supply.

Mathew 21:18-19 Jesus said...
18Now in the morning, when He was returning to the city, He became hungry.
19Seeing a lone fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it except leaves only; and He said to it, “No longer shall there ever be anyfruit from you.” And at once the fig tree withered. "

Jesus was hungry. On the cross he said "I Thirst"... He didn't mean physically...He meant spiritually...He thirst for US. When He found that there was no fruit on the tree, and He was hungry,,,Jesus became mad and cursed the fig tree. He said that it would no longer produce any fruit and IT WITHERED.
Withered means death. It was no longer alive.



John 15:5-6 Jesus said...
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. "

Jesus is the vine.
WE are the branches. Apart from HIM we can do nothing. We must remain in Him...abide IN HIM.
What happens to the branches that do NOT abide in Him? Abide means to live...to keep living in....
You abide in your home.

Jesus said if anyone does NOT abide in Him, he will be thrown away as a branch...it will dry up,,,
it will be gathered (along with the other dead branches), they will be cast into the fire and burned.

That does NOT sound like chastisement to me...it sounds like hell, where the fire is.

On a different thread this same subject has been brought up.
Something about too much rain and a tree cannot produce fruit.

Here's what Jesus would do, based on the above scripture:
He'd cut that tree down since it's useless...
and He'd plant a tree that could produce fruit even in too much rain.
 
Hevosmies said:
im still waiting for your return to the not by works thread!

You have always been nice to me! So I love you back!
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I don't think I could come back there.
But I'm here!
And you've always been nice to me too.
Too bad everyone can't be....
We're all brothers in Christ...no matter what we believe.
 
I took a peak, i believe i just saw somone make a pro universalims comment, say it is not so!!!!:eek:
 
GodsGrace101 said:
Jesus used allegories for a reason.
It's very easy to understand about vines and trees and plants since most were farmers or, at least, farmed for their food supply.

Mathew 21:18-19 Jesus said...
18Now in the morning, when He was returning to the city, He became hungry.
19Seeing a lone fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it except leaves only; and He said to it, “No longer shall there ever be anyfruit from you.” And at once the fig tree withered. "

Jesus was hungry. On the cross he said "I Thirst"... He didn't mean physically...He meant spiritually...He thirst for US. When He found that there was no fruit on the tree, and He was hungry,,,Jesus became mad and cursed the fig tree. He said that it would no longer produce any fruit and IT WITHERED.
Withered means death. It was no longer alive.



John 15:5-6 Jesus said...
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. "

Jesus is the vine.
WE are the branches. Apart from HIM we can do nothing. We must remain in Him...abide IN HIM.
What happens to the branches that do NOT abide in Him? Abide means to live...to keep living in....
You abide in your home.

Jesus said if anyone does NOT abide in Him, he will be thrown away as a branch...it will dry up,,,
it will be gathered (along with the other dead branches), they will be cast into the fire and burned.

That does NOT sound like chastisement to me...it sounds like hell, where the fire is.

On a different thread this same subject has been brought up.
Something about too much rain and a tree cannot produce fruit.

Here's what Jesus would do, based on the above scripture:
He'd cut that tree down since it's useless...
and He'd plant a tree that could produce fruit even in too much rain.
Click to expand...
You are absolutely right. It's kind of sad in a way to watch people take a scripture they don't like and does not fit their narrative they will say that's not for us and toss it aside
 
Goodnewsman said:
You are absolutely right. It's kind of sad in a way to watch people take a scripture they don't like and does not fit their narrative they will say that's not for us and toss it aside
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Agreed.

Mathew 4:4 Jesus said:
'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds. out of the mouth of God.'"
 
Goodnewsman said:
You are absolutely right. It's kind of sad in a way to watch people take a scripture they don't like and does not fit their narrative they will say that's not for us and toss it aside
Click to expand...
Its also sad to see people take scripture, twist it so it means something else, all so they can continue in their belief
 
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