God LIED!
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I agree with you...
BUT
I'm getting a little tired of this fear of works.
Do you believe that persons that are born again do things out of their heart that has been changed?
Works means that we're trying to get to heaven by things that we do and not be knowing our Lord and Savior.
No one is saved by works. Why are we so afraid of them??
I think good comes from a good heart
and evil comes from an evil heart.
Surely God is good and we are good.
(please don't quote Luke 18:19!)
BUT
I'm getting a little tired of this fear of works.
Do you believe that persons that are born again do things out of their heart that has been changed?
Works means that we're trying to get to heaven by things that we do and not be knowing our Lord and Savior.
No one is saved by works. Why are we so afraid of them??
I think good comes from a good heart
and evil comes from an evil heart.
Surely God is good and we are good.
(please don't quote Luke 18:19!)
It's both. As an allegory, it includes those like Judas who had a superficial connection - an outward appearance - and those in verse 6 Jesus mentions those who do not abide in Him (not did and now no longer) meaning - unbelievers, and those believers who neglect bearing fruit for the lord. Another example being the parable of the seed and soils in Matthew 13:1-58.
But even it means true believers only, it has nothing to do with losing salvation and being cast into hell. As far as "they are burned" is concerned, neither hell, the lake of fire, or the second death is referenced at all - or any statement that indicates that this is an everlasting burning. This burning is temporal.
Born again believers can never be eternally condemned (as my OP clearly proves) but they can experience temporal judgment - even to the point of premature physical death (1 Corinthians 11:30, James 5:19-20, 1 John 5:16). But such divine discipline might not lead to premature death if the believer corrects the behavior.
Of the three branches that are mentioned, two refer to believers (those branches that bear fruit and are pruned, and those that bear no fruit, so God "lifts them up" so that they will) and the third branch that does not abide (non-believers in Christ) that are gathered up and burned.
But even it means true believers only, it has nothing to do with losing salvation and being cast into hell. As far as "they are burned" is concerned, neither hell, the lake of fire, or the second death is referenced at all - or any statement that indicates that this is an everlasting burning. This burning is temporal.
Born again believers can never be eternally condemned (as my OP clearly proves) but they can experience temporal judgment - even to the point of premature physical death (1 Corinthians 11:30, James 5:19-20, 1 John 5:16). But such divine discipline might not lead to premature death if the believer corrects the behavior.
Of the three branches that are mentioned, two refer to believers (those branches that bear fruit and are pruned, and those that bear no fruit, so God "lifts them up" so that they will) and the third branch that does not abide (non-believers in Christ) that are gathered up and burned.
Jesus used allegories for a reason.
It's very easy to understand about vines and trees and plants since most were farmers or, at least, farmed for their food supply.
Mathew 21:18-19 Jesus said...
18Now in the morning, when He was returning to the city, He became hungry.
19Seeing a lone fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it except leaves only; and He said to it, “No longer shall there ever be anyfruit from you.” And at once the fig tree withered. "
Jesus was hungry. On the cross he said "I Thirst"... He didn't mean physically...He meant spiritually...He thirst for US. When He found that there was no fruit on the tree, and He was hungry,,,Jesus became mad and cursed the fig tree. He said that it would no longer produce any fruit and IT WITHERED.
Withered means death. It was no longer alive.
John 15:5-6 Jesus said...
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. "
Jesus is the vine.
WE are the branches. Apart from HIM we can do nothing. We must remain in Him...abide IN HIM.
What happens to the branches that do NOT abide in Him? Abide means to live...to keep living in....
You abide in your home.
Jesus said if anyone does NOT abide in Him, he will be thrown away as a branch...it will dry up,,,
it will be gathered (along with the other dead branches), they will be cast into the fire and burned.
That does NOT sound like chastisement to me...it sounds like hell, where the fire is.
On a different thread this same subject has been brought up.
Something about too much rain and a tree cannot produce fruit.
Here's what Jesus would do, based on the above scripture:
He'd cut that tree down since it's useless...
and He'd plant a tree that could produce fruit even in too much rain.
It's very easy to understand about vines and trees and plants since most were farmers or, at least, farmed for their food supply.
Mathew 21:18-19 Jesus said...
18Now in the morning, when He was returning to the city, He became hungry.
19Seeing a lone fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it except leaves only; and He said to it, “No longer shall there ever be anyfruit from you.” And at once the fig tree withered. "
Jesus was hungry. On the cross he said "I Thirst"... He didn't mean physically...He meant spiritually...He thirst for US. When He found that there was no fruit on the tree, and He was hungry,,,Jesus became mad and cursed the fig tree. He said that it would no longer produce any fruit and IT WITHERED.
Withered means death. It was no longer alive.
John 15:5-6 Jesus said...
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. "
Jesus is the vine.
WE are the branches. Apart from HIM we can do nothing. We must remain in Him...abide IN HIM.
What happens to the branches that do NOT abide in Him? Abide means to live...to keep living in....
You abide in your home.
Jesus said if anyone does NOT abide in Him, he will be thrown away as a branch...it will dry up,,,
it will be gathered (along with the other dead branches), they will be cast into the fire and burned.
That does NOT sound like chastisement to me...it sounds like hell, where the fire is.
On a different thread this same subject has been brought up.
Something about too much rain and a tree cannot produce fruit.
Here's what Jesus would do, based on the above scripture:
He'd cut that tree down since it's useless...
and He'd plant a tree that could produce fruit even in too much rain.
