GOD is hiding information from his only Son.

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infinitekhanol said:
That ultra - rude red x as you called it is only saying that I do not agree with your interpretation. There is nothing rude about it for it is the CC standard for saying I disagree.

Relate that to his triumphal entry into Jerusalem and you will understand why he said what he said.
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You disagree with obvious text, which is that Jesus kept his arrival to the festival a SECRET. You give me the ultra-rude "Red X" as I convey the obvious . . . so what would I receive from you if I actually made a claim that wasn't quite as abundantly obvious.

Incredible.
 
Anyone? What did Jesus do to keep His "secret"? What did Jesus do to ensure that He went to the festival privately, as in, He didn't want anyone to know?

John 7:10 KJV - 10 But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.
John 7:10 NKJV - 10 But when His brothers had gone up, then He also went up to the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.
John 7:10 NLT - 10 But after his brothers left for the festival, Jesus also went, though secretly, staying out of public view.
John 7:10 NIV - 10 However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret.
John 7:10 ESV - 10 But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private.
John 7:10 CSB - 10 After his brothers had gone up to the festival, then he also went up, not openly but secretly.
John 7:10 NASB20 - 10 But when His brothers had gone up to the feast, then He Himself also went up, not publicly, but as [though] in secret.
John 7:10 NET - 10 But when his brothers had gone up to the feast, then Jesus himself also went up, not openly but in secret.
John 7:10 RSV - 10 But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private.
John 7:10 ASV - 10 But when his brethren were gone up unto the feast, then went he also up, not publicly, but as it were in secret.
John 7:10 YLT - 10 And when his brethren went up, then also he himself went up to the feast, not manifestly, but as in secret;
John 7:10 DBY - 10 But when his brethren had gone up, then he himself also went up to the feast, not openly, but as in secret.
John 7:10 WEB - 10 But when his brethren had gone up, then he went also to the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.
John 7:10 HNV - 10 But when his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly, but as it were in secret.

Stop playing word games and answer the simple question with a simple answer. Don't circumvent. Don't ignore. Just answer the question.
 
Deuteronomy said:
Hello @denny1953, since I see that you are a new member, I thought that I should start off by saying, welcome to CChat :)

As for your question concerning Jesus' limited knowledge (in Matthew 24:36/Mark 13:32), I believe that this limitation was true from the Incarnation to the Resurrection only, as the Bible tells us that He temporarily set aside certain aspects of His Divine nature when He lived among us as a man so that He could truly be like us in His dependence upon/obedience to His Father/His word, as well to the leading of the Spirit, as He walked through this life as one of us, doing for us what we had failed to do for ourselves by living a perfectly righteous life before His Father (to make it possible for us, by the Lord Jesus' righteous life and death on the Cross in our stead, to be declared both innocent AND righteous by the Father and be justified/saved by Him through faith .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 5:21; Ephesians 2:8-9).

Philippians 2​
5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,​
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,​
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.​
8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.​

While I believe that this is most likely the case (that Jesus chose to restrict His omniscience from His birth to His resurrection), the Bible never tells us that directly, so it remains one of the secret things of God/a mystery .. cf Deuteronomy 29:29, and we need to treat it as such.

I believe the most important thing that we need to takeaway from these verses (including Acts 1:7, where He no longer excludes Himself from possessing this knowledge, BTW) is what these verses do make clear to us, that we should ALWAYS be prepared for His Parousia, as if its happening is imminent, because we will not know the year/day/hour of its happening until it is already upon us.

God bless you!

~Deut
p.s. - and again, welcome to CChat.

1 Thessalonians 5​
23 May the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body ​
be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.​
24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.​
​
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Thank you so very much for the clear and factual understanding of my question. may your name be written in the Book of Life.
 
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Yeah . . . no. Regardless of the translation, verse 10 uses the word "but" to negate what Jesus said earlier.

John 7:10 KJV - 10 But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret."

As my friend Evmer quoted the KJV, he did not mention verse ten . . . where "but" is used to describe the "secret" that Jesus was keeping hidden. Sorry . . . but this is a total no-brainer. Jesus didn't tell his "brothers" the truth. But this shouldn't surprise us entirely. Why?

Rahab the alleged prostitute lied. David put on an act that he was crazy. Abraham didn't entirely tell the truth (to king Abimelech) about his wife/sister, Sarah, and then there is this story of Jesus not telling the truth.

Why do we have all of these men of Righteous, Holy, and Pure Faith not telling the Truth?
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We know that Jesus Christ can never lie because it is not in his nature or character, therefore there is no way he could have lied to his brethren. Period. Any interpretation of that scripture that says otherwise is faulty. There is no story of Jesus not telling the truth. It is your interpretation which is insinuating that he lied. Scriptures are not purely interpreted by the letter in most cases because the letter kills. It is the spirit in the word that gives meaning to the letter. Jesus said, the words I speak to you, they are spirit and they are life.

As regards Rahab, King David and Abraham telling lies, we should know that, first, to be righteous does not equate to sinlessness. To be sinless, we must grow to the level of righteousness of Christ Jesus. The righteousness which he manifested unto us. We must grow in righteousness unto holiness. Our God says, be holy for I am holy. And, Jesus enjoins us to be perfect as our father which is in heaven. So, there is a level of righteousness required of us below which it is possible to sin.

In Ezekiel 18, we read, "when the righteous turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and do according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, all his righteousness that he has done, shall not be mentioned, in his trespass that he has trespassed and in his sin, that he has sinned, in them shall he die." This confirms the statement above, that it is possible for a righteous man to sin. --- until he reaches a certain ' maturity" of righteousness

Also, the same Ezekiel 18 says, " when the wicked man turns away from his wickedness that he has committed and does that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul because he considered and turned away from his wickedness. Therefore, I will judge you, everyone according to his ways, says the Lord God. Repent and turn yourselves from all your transgressions, so iniquity shall not be your ruin. Cast away from you all your transgressions whereby you have transgressed and make you a new heart and a new spirit"

Go and check the lives of the people you mentioned whether they did not repent of their sins and turned a new leaf and remained steadfast in God. God judges with his prescience of the future, so when he says one is righteous, no one can fault that. For he judges with perfect knowledge.

Secondly, we know that their dispensation is different from ours. in that, we are held to a higher moral standard than they were. For God has manifested himself unto us showing in person , an example of the new and living way he consecrated for mankind, that we have no more excuse. As Paul says in Act 17:30, the ignorance of the past, God winked at and now commands all men everywhere to repent. I have added this because I do not know what exactly you are insinuating in your post by mentioning them.
 
infinitekhanol said:
We know that Jesus Christ can never lie because it is not in his nature or character, therefore there is no way he could have lied to his brethren. Period. Any interpretation of that scripture that says otherwise is faulty. There is no story of Jesus not telling the truth. It is your interpretation which is insinuating that he lied. Scriptures are not purely interpreted by the letter in most cases because the letter kills. It is the spirit in the word that gives meaning to the letter. Jesus said, the words I speak to you, they are spirit and they are life.

As regards Rahab, King David and Abraham telling lies, we should know that, first, to be righteous does not equate to sinlessness. To be sinless, we must grow to the level of righteousness of Christ Jesus. The righteousness which he manifested unto us. We must grow in righteousness unto holiness. Our God says, be holy for I am holy. And, Jesus enjoins us to be perfect as our father which is in heaven. So, there is a level of righteousness required of us below which it is possible to sin.

In Ezekiel 18, we read, "when the righteous turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and do according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, all his righteousness that he has done, shall not be mentioned, in his trespass that he has trespassed and in his sin, that he has sinned, in them shall he die." This confirms the statement above, that it is possible for a righteous man to sin. --- until he reaches a certain ' maturity" of righteousness

Also, the same Ezekiel 18 says, " when the wicked man turns away from his wickedness that he has committed and does that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul because he considered and turned away from his wickedness. Therefore, I will judge you, everyone according to his ways, says the Lord God. Repent and turn yourselves from all your transgressions, so iniquity shall not be your ruin. Cast away from you all your transgressions whereby you have transgressed and make you a new heart and a new spirit"

Go and check the lives of the people you mentioned whether they did not repent of their sins and turned a new leaf and remained steadfast in God. God judges with his prescience of the future, so when he says one is righteous, no one can fault that. For he judges with perfect knowledge.

Secondly, we know that their dispensation is different from ours. in that, we are held to a higher moral standard than they were. For God has manifested himself unto us showing in person , an example of the new and living way he consecrated for mankind, that we have no more excuse. As Paul says in Act 17:30, the ignorance of the past, God winked at and now commands all men everywhere to repent. I have added this because I do not know what exactly you are insinuating in your post by mentioning them.
Click to expand...

Please spend 20 seconds and type John 7 10 from your Bible . . . here. Show us what your Bible says.
 
denny1953 said:
Jesus says that only the Father knows when the 2nd coming will happen. I did not know that GOD would hide information from 1/3 of the Trinity. What am I missing here?
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you have to give account for Jesus time on earth he was subject to God as men are

it was part of his mission to be subject to Gid as we are so Jesus was tempted , prayed for his own deliverance and was heard by God he was living in full as one of us and we are all subject to those things temptations of our flesh Jesus partook as we do while he was on earth he had set aside his glory for our sake but after he rose and was taken beck to heaven

“I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God chose to keep it from mankind all together so Christ had no knowledge of it for his earthly ministry it isn’t a part of mans knowledge it’s something only God in heaven knows Jesus certainly knows at this point but men still don’t
 
infinitekhanol said:
We know that Jesus Christ can never lie because it is not in his nature or character, therefore there is no way he could have lied to his brethren. Period. Any interpretation of that scripture that says otherwise is faulty. There is no story of Jesus not telling the truth. It is your interpretation which is insinuating that he lied. Scriptures are not purely interpreted by the letter in most cases because the letter kills. It is the spirit in the word that gives meaning to the letter. Jesus said, the words I speak to you, they are spirit and they are life.
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If Jesus lied, He would have disqualified Himself as the perfect Lamb of God.

I am surprised any Christian would promote such a thing :oops:
 
Gibsonbfree said:
2Timothy

Man you are one of the only ones I have seen that realizes getting the Holy Spirit is not how Christians think. That it’s extremely rare and that it alone has the power to change their personality and be holy like God says.

You mention true believers as if by their will and power they decided to be the special true believers and their choice made the Holy Spirit come in them.

Man did you know that humans don’t even get to choose to be saved or not 😭? Will all the terrors of the Bible and humans don’t even get to choose. Even though most the text is filled with instruction snd storyline of Bible people choosing. The real truth is veiled in the Bible that God alone chooses and decides who gets to know Him be saved and get to experience the Holy Spirit. The world just has no idea and it’s so brutal 😭. How do you think the world and Christians would react if they were plainly told that God controls every human and Satan and that He predecided who goes to hell and heaven and man has no choice even though they feel like they are making choices?
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Please bro, do not preach this anywhere because it does not reflect the gospel in any sense.
 
infinitekhanol said:
Please bro, do not preach this anywhere because it does not reflect the gospel in any sense.
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I know what the Gospel is, and I'm confident that if we shared our version of the Gospel, yours won't include Circumcision of the Heart. And if you took the Bible seriously, you'd know this. Go bark up someone else's tree.
 
2ndTimothyGroup said:
John 7:10 KJV - "But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret."

Jesus said what He said because He wanted to go to the Festival of Booths by Himself. I don't know WHY He did it . . . He just did it and it is of no concern to me why Jesus said what He said. His "brothers" wanted Him to go to the festival to prove himself; to make Himself known and famous . . . and this is for the reason that they Truly didn't believe in Him (and wanted to see more miracles). But there is more. The context is His Death, in that it would be His Death that will cause Him to be totally famous. But . . . it wasn't His Time YET. Jesus makes this clear in verse 6 . . . and it is in context to His Resurrection . . . a Resurrection that is in the near future. There is more to this body of text than most seem to realize, but we must make these realizations.

Some of you can get upset with me all you want, but unemotionally, I bring these Scriptures to you as a reporter. Whether "you" accept my reports or not doesn't cause me to fall into strong emotions. I'm just a reporter with the only agenda of knowing the Truth . . . that's all. Because I view myself as a reporter, I am able to give it to you objectively, for I have no motives or agenda. Again, all that I am doing is bringing forth what seems clear and obvious.

As for what is obvious . . . wasn't it obvious that Rahab lied to protect Israelites? And wasn't it David who acted like a Crazy Madman so as to throw-off the king? And didn't Abraham and Sarah agree to tell king Abimelech that they were brother and sister? All of these men and women were deceptive, but all of them are mentioned in the Great Hall of Faith, Hebrews Chapter 13.

Look . . . I don't get it; I really don't. It boggles me that this level of deception comes from Holy Men and Women. But that doesn't matter, does it? God is not concerned over whether or not each of us understands every little tittle of His Word. In fact, quite the opposite, for it seems that the Lord grants one piece of knowledge to one of us and issues wisdom to another. Now, if Christians would work together instead of always trying to gain an advantage, the upper hand over everyone else, then we could combine our knowledge and wisdom and create something whole. We're supposed to be depending upon each other instead of bickering, whining, griping, and constantly complaining.
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Now we know he did not lie to his brethren. we can move forward from there. A reporter do not insist on his opinion being only the correct one while the others lack insight.
 
Gibsonbfree said:
Hatedfornoreason,

Just because someone prays for everything, even if they realize tv and things you listed is sin by others who were shown it by God and they beg God give them power to overcome amd be different and not sin, He still does not care or answer unless He chose a person 😭. I’ve lived it. And I met many who wasn’t looking for God but God irresistably gave the Holy Spirit that changed them. Humans pray and pray even if change their desires and nothing happens unless God predetermined it and chose mercy. It’s not love and mercy for anyone who wants it or gives their all 😭. It’s more like billions born without any chance living out as puppets what God made for them predoomed with no chance to quit sin even if they get exposed to info like yours wanting to. Does that sound fair and just by any measure humans are taught what just and fair is? Humans were created to sin. Did you or anyone make choice before birth if you wanted to be born a sinner or non sinner? Or was it decided for everyone?

That’s what is so extreme and brutal and how is that love by any measure or standard? Is even if all your desire and effort is to want to be like you say He does not move to help them. Only if He prechose them. Does that sound like an all loving every human God we are taught? Birthing billions with no chance knowing they will go to torture beyond imagining? Even the believers who are exposed to Christian knowledge who are trying to be with God and being led to believe they have a chance but are predoomed. How can you blame them for not knowing all the sins? Even if they knew that just about everything in life is considered sin, they couldn’t stop them unless they were given the holy spirit. You know that humans have no power or choice to have the holy spirit come which is the only way such mysteries are revealed to anyone so how do you blame them knowing that?

You refer to Christians in church as if it’s their fault or they have the power to change things. If you received the Holy Spirit it wasn’t because you chose it. And you like them didn’t know about the countless sins that the world is unaware of either until it was given to you. So how you not have empathy to know they are victims when you if chosen as the elect didn’t become so by your own choice or effort or will or strength?
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I really do not know how to respond to this post . I only know this is not the gospel of Christ Jesus.
 
infinitekhanol said:
I think it is absurd for us to think that Jesus actually lied to his brothers, knowing his person and character. Sometimes we tend to misinterpret the scripture if we base the interpretation purely on the letter of the word.

If we take the reading from verse 1 to 8, it becomes clearer that what he was telling the brothers was that he was not going to the festival in the way and manner they wanted him to go because his time was not fully come. That he later went in secret shows that he intended going but not in the way the brothers advised and he gave his reasons for that. When the time came, we saw his triumphal entry into Jerusalem, openly not in secret with multitudes following and singing hosanna in the highest, knowing that this is he that comes in the name of the Lord. Mt21:1 -11; Lk19:28 -44 ( also narrated in John and Mark gospels)

We should take note that the scripture also says his brothers did not believe in him and so their urging him on could mean telling him to go and prove himself to the world if he knew he is real. But, we know he need not prove himself to anyone for time will tell.
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In the way and manner?

Very interesting concept. Logical too.
 
Gibsonbfree said:
2Timothy

I like the way you think

Posthuman,

You say the “brothers” were murderers or didn’t believe because they wanted Jesus to perform more miracles at the festival. How you think like that as if they were evil or something? The men already seen miracles so they already believed. They wanted those at the festival to see Jesus do miracles so those at the festival could believe. If Jesus did miracles for the apostles and brothers so they would believe He is God, then why on earth you act like these men were evil for having the loving intention that more people at the festival get to see that Jesus is God through miracles? I mean why do people like your doing judge people so rediculous as if humans are born with innate knowledge of how to be holy and other mysteries?

Also did you know that every character in Jesus story good or bad was so and acted so because God made them to be that way without their choice unawares? If that’s the case how you gonna judge anyone the same ever again?

What’s this verse say?

Acts 4:26
Why do the nations rage
and the peoples plot in vain?
26The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the Lord
and against His Anointed One.
27In fact, this is the very city where Herod and Pontius Pilate conspired with the Gentiles and the people of Israel against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed. 28They carried out what Your hand and will had decided beforehand would happen.

Amplified
They did whatever Your hand and Your purpose PREDESTINED [before the creation of the world] to occur [and so WITHOUT KNOWING IT, they served Your own purpose].
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Acts 4:27

We know from scripture that God's plan of salvation for mankind involves Jesus shedding his precious blood for man. This was bound to happen for God included it as part of his creation. At the dispensation of time it will come to pass. However, he did not at any time choose or appoint Harrod or Pontius Pilate or any one for that matter to be the ones to kill him. They chose to crucify him because of the wickedness of their heart. It is the evil of their heart that drew them to the act.
 
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Thanks again for your work. However, I have never said that Jesus sinned when he clearly told his "brothers" that he wouldn't be going to the festival. When Rahab clearly lied, I don't see this "lying" as a sin, for she saved the lives of Holy men in the process. Is that wrong? Is it wrong to lie in order to save the Lives of Righteous, Holy men? I would say "no, it isn't."

Did Jesus sin when He said what He said to His brothers? Impossible. There is no way that what Jesus did was a sin . . . utterly impossible, for I would never put my Faith and Trust into someone that wasn't perfect, and Jesus was certainly perfect. :)
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I think lying is unrighteous and sinful. But, there are sins not unto death. St John said in 1 John 5:16 - 17, all unrighteousness is sin and there is a sin not unto death.

If any man sees his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. there is a sin unto death. I do not say that he shall pray for it.

I think we can classify the lie of Rahab as one not unto death. Jesus did not lie and therefore did not sin.
 
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