as I read it, on day four, "Let there be lights in the space of the heavens" which implies, to me, that there weren't lights in the heavens before.
getting dates about a young earth
- Thread starter Dan_473
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
as I read it, on day four, "Let there be lights in the space of the heavens" which implies, to me, that there weren't lights in the heavens before.
some further thoughts
what I'm saying is based on my literal reading of the text.
a liberal christian might also say the text says "sun on the fourth day".
they could also say the sun is billions of years old. that would be a non-yec position.
they would probably say the text should be read as a myth (meaning it wouldn't be read literally).
the more time I spend on this thread pondering these things, the more this idea of God making a universe already in motion
makes sense to me.
it covers all the bases.
the objection that people sometimes raise, that it makes God deceptive,
I see as God 'veiling' things... I know I've read in the bible that God does that sometimes.
so maybe Bowman is right, maybe I am a yec... or am becoming one.
How can you have alternation of evening and morning if the earth is not already revolving about its axis while orbiting an already formed sun?
If earth is fixed and the sun and moon much smaller and closer than imagined today, but still obviously pretty big, and set in a circuit above the earth of course.
Psalm 19
1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.
A young earth? A lot occurred between the 1st and 2nd verses of chapter ONE in Genesis. JESUS spoke about it, as He shared with His disciples that HE witnessed the fall of satan and his followers 'as fast as lightning" out of heaven. When did this occur? It had to be before Adam and Eve were placed in the Garden of Eden....because when GOD placed them there, everything HE created, HE personally called it "GOOD". Good means no sin, no sorrow, no 'bad", no satanic influence yet made. Everything was perfectly timed, planned and made ready for man to inhabit the earth. Amazing how in recent years, we are finding that the dinosaurs died out about the same time all around the world. Scientists are saying by fiery meteorites. Imagine that...perhaps those cast out fallen angels who fell from the skies as JESUS described them, caused this...who knows? We do know that dinosaurs pre-existed millions of years before man came along. GOD does not abide by a Rolex..how dare we think that our modern clocked time is GOD's limitation.
T
Tintin
Guest
This is an evolutionary take on Genesis, but I think it's still appropriate for this old Earth thread.
The serpent said to the woman, "Did God really say...?"
Genesis 3:1
The Big Story* (Duration: 11mins)
http://biologos.org/resources/the-big-story/
Brought to you by the Corporation for Compromised Christians
*As is to be expected when you exchange God's truth for a lie, this story proves to be incredibly dull. Don't be fooled.
A response to the video from Creation Ministries International:
'The first character in Scripture to reinterpret God’s Word is the serpent, Satan, and it is telling that BioLogos wants to reinterpret Scripture. When your closest biblical precedent for your handling of Scripture is the prince of darkness himself, you may want to rethink your exegetical methods!'
Big story - creation.com
The serpent said to the woman, "Did God really say...?"
Genesis 3:1
The Big Story* (Duration: 11mins)
http://biologos.org/resources/the-big-story/
Brought to you by the Corporation for Compromised Christians
*As is to be expected when you exchange God's truth for a lie, this story proves to be incredibly dull. Don't be fooled.
A response to the video from Creation Ministries International:
'The first character in Scripture to reinterpret God’s Word is the serpent, Satan, and it is telling that BioLogos wants to reinterpret Scripture. When your closest biblical precedent for your handling of Scripture is the prince of darkness himself, you may want to rethink your exegetical methods!'
Big story - creation.com
Last edited by a moderator:
Lol because the earth does not spin? The sun and moon were made by God and put to their purpose by God just as Bible says would be my opinion on that matter. Seems indeed the sun, moon, and stars indeed created on day four by God, Genesis 1.
The sun and moon even stood still once thanks to God so that Joshua and Israel could prevail against their enemies.
Joshua 10:1-14
1 Now it came to pass, when Adonizedec king of Jerusalem had heard how Joshua had taken Ai, and had utterly destroyed it; as he had done to Jericho and her king, so he had done to Ai and her king; and how the inhabitants of Gibeon had made peace with Israel, and were among them;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That they feared greatly, because Gibeon was a great city, as one of the royal cities, and because it was greater than Ai, and all the men thereof were mighty.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Wherefore Adonizedec king of Jerusalem, sent unto Hoham king of Hebron, and unto Piram king of Jarmuth, and unto Japhia king of Lachish, and unto Debir king of Eglon, saying,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Come up unto me, and help me, that we may smite Gibeon: for it hath made peace with Joshua and with the children of Israel.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Therefore the five kings of the Amorites, the king of Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish, the king of Eglon, gathered themselves together, and went up, they and all their hosts, and encamped before Gibeon, and made war against it.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the men of Gibeon sent unto Joshua to the camp to Gilgal, saying, Slack not thy hand from thy servants; come up to us quickly, and save us, and help us: for all the kings of the Amorites that dwell in the mountains are gathered together against us.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]So Joshua ascended from Gilgal, he, and all the people of war with him, and all the mighty men of valour.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And the Lord said unto Joshua, Fear them not: for I have delivered them into thine hand; there shall not a man of them stand before thee.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Joshua therefore came unto them suddenly, and went up from Gilgal all night.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the Lord discomfited them before Israel, and slew them with a great slaughter at Gibeon, and chased them along the way that goeth up to Bethhoron, and smote them to Azekah, and unto Makkedah.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the Lord cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the Lord hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the Lord fought for Israel.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
1. Satan could have fallen after creation before adam fell..
2. Dinosours died in the flood. not by some meteorite.
I learned along time ago not to read things into a passage which are not there.
Planets form via accretion.
Not only is your science poor...but your scriptural example proves my point....not your YEC worldview...
Made....or created?
Big difference...
An ALREADY formed sun.
T
Tintin
Guest
The study of astrology might render a different perspective. For the YEC, it's hard to explain how we can witness the death of a star (black hole) that is billions of light years away. If the God's creation is only 6000 to a 10000 years old, then God did create these things with age, and with light in transit as if it had no beginning. If we can clearly see the attributes of God by observing His creation then IMHO the things that look old or are billions of light years away can't be new, for God is not a deceiver.
The observance of a birth of a star seems to demonstrate that light of that event couldn't have been created fully in its translated state. For the reason that the birth of the star witnessed took millions of light years to get here, but yet if the light of that event was relatively new we shouldn't be able to see that event, unless a vast expansion of the universe took place in which the observed evidence denounces.
I'm inclined to say that the creation is largely a mystery of God and Genesis wasn't meant to tell the whole story.
I hope you can appreciate how I held myself back from commenting on the "not reading things into passages" part.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
It is obvious the earth was already here in verse two.
If there was a long space of time between verses one and two, then what happened to the earth after it was created for it to be without form and void?
How is it that the earth was chaotic while it was being formed, but the heaven that was made with the earth, wasn't?
The earth had to have already been in existence in verse two, otherwise it couldn't be called earth and it wouldn't have had water on the surface for the Spirit to move on. Not only that, but when God said "light be" and called the light, day and the darkness, night, the earth was already rotating on its axis. The same as it is today.
Is it possible that Satan had a kingdom that ruled the earth prior to human creation and that it was destroyed because of his corruption? Why would the devil and his angels be sent to hell in the center of the earth, which is the same place the damned of today go, if they were spirit beings that lived in heaven. Why not the center of the sun or another planet? Why earth?
I think it should be noted that if the earth is only 6000 years old, then that means hell is the same age and that the demons were put there only a few short days before humans were made.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
It is obvious the earth was already here in verse two.
If there was a long space of time between verses one and two, then what happened to the earth after it was created for it to be without form and void?
How is it that the earth was chaotic while it was being formed, but the heaven that was made with the earth, wasn't?
The earth had to have already been in existence in verse two, otherwise it couldn't be called earth and it wouldn't have had water on the surface for the Spirit to move on. Not only that, but when God said "light be" and called the light, day and the darkness, night, the earth was already rotating on its axis. The same as it is today.
Is it possible that Satan had a kingdom that ruled the earth prior to human creation and that it was destroyed because of his corruption? Why would the devil and his angels be sent to hell in the center of the earth, which is the same place the damned of today go, if they were spirit beings that lived in heaven. Why not the center of the sun or another planet? Why earth?
I think it should be noted that if the earth is only 6000 years old, then that means hell is the same age and that the demons were put there only a few short days before humans were made.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
T
Tintin
Guest
Here you go:
[video=youtube;IjSC8NI1O8Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjSC8NI1O8Y[/video]
It may be obvious to you, but not to others. And it may be obvious to others that Genesis 1 and 2 are part of day 1. My point it's not obvious, if it was we wouldn't be having a debate about this.
Also, How do you know Hell is at the center of the earth? Where in the bible does it obviously say this?
A minute and 57 sec into it this video this gentleman said the bible told us the earth was created 6000 or 7000 thousand years ago. Please show me the chapter and verse!
I will continue to watch it for the Love of Christ