Genesis 3:16 He will rule over you.

[Sipsey]

Spiritually alive and spiritually dead people populate the earth and walk around till they physically die. We are told to fear the second death.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

The man to rule over is not one of authority but responsibility.
God chose the man to be head of household .
If you say you have a equal say and partnership in marriage then you have a freak.
Anything born with 2heads is a freak.
God chose the man to be accountable the women to be the helper. This is not a greater lesser thing but 2roles that are needed for a marriage to thrive and survive.

You are talking about living under the curse. We are in Christ now, see Ephesians chapter 5 for how Christian marriages should work.

 

[garee]

Spiritually alive and spiritually dead people populate the earth and walk around till they physically die. We are told to fear the second death.

Its what the wrath of God spoken of in Romans says . . dead and living mixture. The second death is the death of death itself, the instrument of suffering the wage of death a "living hell" or suffering. Death as to suffering will be cast into the judgement of God .(Not bones or people but judgement ) Never to rise up and condemn through suffering another creation The bride will be dressed in her heavenly apparel glowing with the righteousness of her husband .Its the end of time the corruption time keepers under her feet

Revelation 12 (ERV) And then a great wonder appeared in heaven: There was a woman who was clothed with the sun, and the moon was under her feet. She had a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out with pain because she was about to give birth.

 

[CS1]

"To the woman He said: “I will sharply increase your pain in childbirth; in pain you will bring forth children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” (Genesis 3:16)

We are told that: "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law" (Galations 3:13) Does this mean that the Husband and wife are to be equal partners in a marriage and that in a Christian marriage the husband does not "rule" over the wife? Or does the women still have to submit herself to her husband in the same way that we are to submit ourself to Christ.

I believe that Jesus went to Calvery to sacrifice Himself for His Bride. In the same way the Husband should die to self and sacrifice himself for his wife in the way that Jesus set an example for us to follow.

Should the women go through natural childbirth and not try to avoid the pain?

willful submission as unto the Lord and love the wife as Christ gave Himself for it.

 

[posthuman]

We know the fruit did not kill either of them that is a truth is it not?, so where does the death come from?

what we know is three things in this regard:

• that their bodies of flesh and blood and bone did not immediately return to dust at that moment.
• that God does not lie.
• that the Serpent is a liar.
  

from this we know that when we say 'they didn't drop dead immediately or even that day' we are not talking about 'in the day you eat of it dying you shall die' in the way that God is talking about it. if we say, they didn't surely die because of eating the fruit, then we are speaking as Satan spoke. if we're agreeing with Satan we are in trouble.

 

[kaylagrl]

Do you see men in 'wife-beater' t-shirts standing around on street corners demanding their wives submit to them in a very demeaning way? What is your experience with this?

I know you were speaking to someone else but I have a few points... Yes, I have seen Christian men demand their wives submit in a demeaning way. What's my experience, my sister, and the way her husband treats her which he learned from his father who abused his mother. All using the Bible to do it.

Years ago a "friend" of the family, who was a Christian judge told a women to go back to her husband who had abused and raped her. He used the Bible to convince her she should go back and it wasn't possible that she was raped because it was her husband after all.

We should encourage one another to obey the word of God. The Bible says to exhort one another daily lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For those who have families, it is easier to exhort one another because we have other believers to exhort. It is not wrong for a man to exhort his wife to obey the teaching of scripture to submit to him. It does not have to be done in an ungodly way.

No, it doesn't have to be done in an un-Godly way, but it too often is. Many don't understand the meaning of the word submit. If a woman feels she has no say, if a woman is fearful to speak up, if a woman feels like one of the children that is not Biblical submission.

In the meantime, women watch TV and movies set in the past where a woman is a heroine for rebelling against her husband or other shows where lack of submission to one's husband is presented as a positive thing and the husband is presented as a tyrant, especially in films set in the past. They are surrounded by women who do not believe in submitting to their husbands in many cases, at work, and hear them talk.

When do movies ever apply to the Christian life unless it's geared to us specifically. Men watch movies and tv shows where men treat women horribly and abuse their power. Cuts both ways.

 

[posthuman]

No you clearly said this below.

((what will God do if he doesn't take the fruit also?)))

Now you can say my bust i didn’t word it right, but you said it

yeah clearly Adam had to consider what God would do if Adam does not also take fruit.
will God let Adam's wife die and leave Adam to be alone? will He make Adam a new wife? will God save her? will He save her if they both need to be saved?

if i ever mean God by saying 'he' i would say 'He' with a big capital letter. okay?

 

[pottersclay]

You are talking about living under the curse. We are in Christ now, see Ephesians chapter 5 for how Christian marriages should work.

No I'm not, read eph 5 1000 times.

 

[JamOn]

what we know is three things in this regard:

• that their bodies of flesh and blood and bone did not immediately return to dust at that moment.
• that God does not lie.
• that the Serpent is a liar.

from this we know that when we say 'they didn't drop dead immediately or even that day' we are not talking about 'in the day you eat of it dying you shall die' in the way that God is talking about it. if we say, they didn't surely die because of eating the fruit, then we are speaking as Satan spoke. if we're agreeing with Satan we are in trouble.

God didn’t lie and He doesn’t have to give a detailed description on how death would happen. Disobeying God lead to being kicked out of the garden.

Adam didn’t make a choice he listen to His wife just as God said he did, if that was such a honorable thing to do God would of known Adam had chosen rather than listen.

 

[JamOn]

God said of any tree that includes the tree of life because that tree wasn’t mentioned as not allowed, that sustained their bodies, outside the garden there is no tree of life to consume, so yes I can agree their body’s decayed from not having access to the tree of life.

 

[garee]

God didn’t lie and He doesn’t have to give a detailed description on how death would happen. Disobeying God lead to being kicked out of the garden.

Adam didn’t make a choice he listen to His wife just as God said he did, if that was such a honorable thing to do God would of known Adam had chosen rather than listen.

The choice is they lost virtue. He chose to not support her according to the design of one creature, mankind.

Like Jacob grasping the heel of Esau. Lording it over not ruling over as a virtuous work of two . God with them (Israel ) the virtuous bride of Emanuel .

Women if they are exited and filled with the Spirit and have a desire to teach or share the gospel do it in a orderly fashion as a sign to the world. And men the same do so at home. Two are used to represent one. By one new ceremony (1 Corinthians 11) also made up of two . (1) The head uncovered of the man with the woman's hair covered as a sign of submission and (2) the bread and blood of grapes to signify the consummating the lifting of the veil . The glorious wedding invitation to the world

 

[reneweddaybyday]

No wait a minute. "Dying you shall die" is a misnomer.

It is not a misnomer.

In Genesis 2:17 God tells Adam regarding the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, “in the day that you eat from it you shall surely die.” Is this saying that Adam would die physically at the moment he ate from the tree? If so, then since Adam physically died 930 years later, doesn’t this mean that God was wrong and the Bible is in error? Good questions. Let’s consider them.​

​

The phrase “you shall surely die” can be literally translated from the Hebrew biblical text as “dying you shall die.” In the Hebrew phrase we find the imperfect form of the Hebrew verb (you shall die) with the infinitive absolute form of the same verb (dying). This presence of the infinitive absolute intensifies the meaning of the imperfect verb (hence the usual translation of “you shall surely die”). This grammatical construction is quite common in the Old Testament, not just with this verb but others also, and does indicate (or intensify) the certainty of the action.​

​

...​

​

So, from all this we conclude that the construction “dying you shall die” and beyôm in Genesis 2:17 do not require us to conclude that God was warning that “the very day you eat from the tree is the exact same day that you will die physically.” The Hebrew wording of Genesis 2:17 allows for a time lapse between the instantaneous spiritual death on that sad day of disobedience and the later physical death (which certainly did happen, just as God said, but for Adam it was 930 years later). As Scripture consistently teaches, both kinds of death (spiritual and physical) are the consequence of Adam’s rebellion​

​

https://answersingenesis.org/death-before-sin/genesis-2-17-you-shall-surely-die/​

So which is it??? Did they die or did they begin to die??

They died in the day they ate ... just as God told Adam in Gen 2:17.

It is a contradiction, one can't be dying while living and be dead at the same time. You can't have both at the same time. Logically speaking your either dying or your dead.

If Adam and Eve had not sinned (had not eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and evil), would they still be alive today?

I believe they would still be alive today and the earth would look far different than it does today.

I also believe that at some point in the future, we will be given new bodies and there will be no more death.

So I looked up the word "die" in my Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon and the word "die" is talking about an affliction put on them by God for their disobedience. I don't think Adam and Eve actually had a life expectancy and were intended to live perhaps for every. But sin found its way into their lives and sin is death though death doesn't occur suddenly but over a period of time in this example. The heart of Adam and Eve never stopped beating, they never stopped breathing and they never fell down as if they were dead.

I believe Gen 2:17 and when God told Adam that in the day you eat, you will die and that is exactly what occurred. Adam and Eve died and the death that occurred in the day they ate led to their physical death years later.

The Strong's number I used is H4191 and did not give the same info as you have given.
"Dying you shall die" is actually talking about dying and dying over a peroid of time always leads to death. Hence from the day we are born we begin to die and our whole life is spent in the process of dying until our time has come and we die. That is what the words "Dying you shall die" is talking about.

Adam and Eve were not dying until after they ate of the tree. Before that, there was no death.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I think God didn’t tell them how they will die but only that they would die. I think Eve had nerves of steel biting into the fruit not knowing really if she would actually die from eating it.

By the time satan was finished with Eve, she wasn't thinking about what God told Adam (thou shalt surely die). She was thinking that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise (Gen 3:6).

Adam saw that she didn’t die so he ate the fruit also Eve might have said see I didn’t die from eating it. We know they didn’t die from just eating the fruit.

They died because of sin.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin ...

the serpent said a half truth to live for ever the tree of life would be needed to be eaten also. Thus drove out of Eden into the natural world where things don’t live for ever. the death part was being out of Eden.

satan totally lied to Eve.

God's words from Gen 2:17: thou shalt surely die

satan's words from Gen 3:4: ye shall not surely die

 

[JamOn]

By the time satan was finished with Eve, she wasn't thinking about what God told Adam (thou shalt surely die). She was thinking that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise (Gen 3:6).

Yes I agree thus Adam listen to what she said didn’t choose to listen but listened


They died because of sin.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin ...

Yes kicked out into the world away from the garden because of sin,


satan totally lied to Eve.

God's words from Gen 2:17: thou shalt surely die

satan's words from Gen 3:4: ye shall not surely die

The half truth was the fruit didn’t kill them but the disobeying did

would been double trouble if they had ate from the tree of life.

Gen 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

 

[massorite]

It is not a misnomer.

In Genesis 2:17 God tells Adam regarding the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, “in the day that you eat from it you shall surely die.” Is this saying that Adam would die physically at the moment he ate from the tree? If so, then since Adam physically died 930 years later, doesn’t this mean that God was wrong and the Bible is in error? Good questions. Let’s consider them.​

​

The phrase “you shall surely die” can be literally translated from the Hebrew biblical text as “dying you shall die.” In the Hebrew phrase we find the imperfect form of the Hebrew verb (you shall die) with the infinitive absolute form of the same verb (dying). This presence of the infinitive absolute intensifies the meaning of the imperfect verb (hence the usual translation of “you shall surely die”). This grammatical construction is quite common in the Old Testament, not just with this verb but others also, and does indicate (or intensify) the certainty of the action.​

​

...​

​

So, from all this we conclude that the construction “dying you shall die” and beyôm in Genesis 2:17 do not require us to conclude that God was warning that “the very day you eat from the tree is the exact same day that you will die physically.” The Hebrew wording of Genesis 2:17 allows for a time lapse between the instantaneous spiritual death on that sad day of disobedience and the later physical death (which certainly did happen, just as God said, but for Adam it was 930 years later). As Scripture consistently teaches, both kinds of death (spiritual and physical) are the consequence of Adam’s rebellion​

​

https://answersingenesis.org/death-before-sin/genesis-2-17-you-shall-surely-die/​

They died in the day they ate ... just as God told Adam in Gen 2:17.




If Adam and Eve had not sinned (had not eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and evil), would they still be alive today?

I believe they would still be alive today and the earth would look far different than it does today.

I also believe that at some point in the future, we will be given new bodies and there will be no more death.




I believe Gen 2:17 and when God told Adam that in the day you eat, you will die and that is exactly what occurred. Adam and Eve died and the death that occurred in the day they ate led to their physical death years later.




Adam and Eve were not dying until after they ate of the tree. Before that, there was no death.

LOL Yes it is a misnomer. You speak all of the words you want trying to get around it but in the end, it's still a misnomer.

 

[Sipsey]

LOL Yes it is a misnomer. You speak all of the words you want trying to get around it but in the end, it's still a misnomer.

Here is a rather wordy, but i think correct, view of the verse in dispute:

Gen 2:16–17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may surely eat from every tree of the garden, but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you will not eat, for in the day that you eat of it, [in] dying, you will die."

The first word in v. 16 is command and it is in the Piel imperfect. The Piel stem could be intensive and it could be completed action without regard to how it came about. Being first in the verse indicates that this command is important. In fact, this is the first recorded words of God to man following man's creation. This indicates that this is most important. From day one of his life on earth, Adam was given a very simple command. One tree was off limits and God even gave Adam a reason for it being off limits. Adam is warned that he will die and dying is found twice, a doubling of the verb, a Hebraism. It is first found in the Qal infinitive absolute and then in the Qal imperfect. An infinitive absolute stands alone as a noun, verb or an adverb. Usually, it takes the place of a noun. It can be used to intensify the meaning of the word, as it most certainly does here, but it can also state a state of being. We could translate this, in a state of dying, you die; or in a state of death, you will begin dying. . This describes exactly what will happen to Adam when he eats from the tree. He will immediately go into a state of spiritual death; that is, he will not be able to have fellowship with God on his own initiative. God must seek him out and begin the fellowship. So Adam will find himself immediately spiritually dead, cut off from God in several ways. However, this will not be the end of the curse. He will also begin a state of decay and physical degeneration which will eventuate in human death.

This establishes a parallelism between man's state of innocence (or, more properly, perfection) and man's fallen state. As a perfect person, Adam could only do one thing wrong; there was only one act of free will which would cause Adam to lose his fellowship with God and that was choosing to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. In man's fallen state, there is only one decision of merit which will affect man's relationship to God and that is man's decision concerning another tree, the tree that Jesus Christ died on. Rev. 22:2 and 14 both speak of the tree of life; the Greek word used is ξύλον (xulon), and it means tree, cross, wood, or stocks. The exact same word is found in I Pet. 2:24 And He himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for "by His wounds were you healed." See also Acts 10:39 13:29 Gal. 3:13. All other decisions for man in his fallen state do not affect his relationship with God one way or the other.

God sets up one tree in the garden and that tree is to test the volition of man. For man to have free will, there has to be the ability to make a free will choice against God. There is one tree in the garden, and, in innocence, the only way man can sin is by eating from that one tree. In a world of sin, far from the Garden of Eden, we also face one tree which tests our free will—the cross on which Christ died. Our attitude toward that tree determines our eternity. Man could choose one tree in the Garden of Eden to express negative volition toward God; man outside of the garden can choose one tree to express positive volition toward God. Adam’s eventual choice to eat from this tree will result in a condemnation upon all mankind; our choice to trust in the tree (the cross) of Christ will result in eternal justification.

The words here are identical. The first translation of a book from one language to another was the Greek Bible, which translated the Hebrew Old Testament into the Greek language sometime between 300–100 b.c. It was known as the Septuagint (the LXX), referring to the number of translators involved in this project. In this verse, they used the Greek word xulon (ξύλον) [pronounced XOO-lohn], which means 1) wood; 1a) that which is made of wood; 2) a tree. These are some of the Thayer definitions. Strong’s #3586. We find this exact same word used in 1Peter 2:24 (which quotes, in part, Isa. 53): He himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By His wounds you have been healed. This exact same word is used in several other New Testament passages to refer to the cross upon which our Lord died (Acts 5:30 10:39 13:29 Gal. 3:13).

In our lives, we make a decision relative to a tree (the cross) to determine our eternal destiny; and Adam was faced with a tree as well, which would determine his eternal destiny. The Tree of the Knowledge of good and evil is that tree. The implication is, Adam lives in a world where there is no good and evil in the realm of his perception. He does not know that it exists. Furthermore, Adam is incapable of doing good or evil in this state. Apart from eating from this tree, Adam cannot sin.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

LOL Yes it is a misnomer.

Your opinion is your opinion. So be it.

You speak all of the words you want trying to get around it but in the end, it's still a misnomer.

There is no "getting around" what God told Adam in Gen 2:17:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


I believe Adam and Eve died the very day they ate. It has been explained to you and God can work in your heart to bring you to understand/comprehend that Adam and Eve did, in fact, die the day they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil ... and the death which occurred in the day they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil resulted in the eventual physical death.

 

[massorite]

Your opinion is your opinion. So be it.




There is no "getting around" what God told Adam in Gen 2:17:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


I believe Adam and Eve died the very day they ate. It has been explained to you and God can work in your heart to bring you to understand/comprehend that Adam and Eve did, in fact, die the day they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil ... and the death which occurred in the day they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil resulted in the eventual physical death.

Your darned tootend it is, So be it. LOL

 

[Locoponydirtman]

No I'm not, read eph 5 1000 times.

Ok then, try reading it to understand what is being said and how it relates to Genesis 3 .

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I believe Adam and Eve died the very day they ate. It has been explained to you and God can work in your heart to bring you to understand/comprehend that Adam and Eve did, in fact, die the day they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil ... and the death which occurred in the day they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil resulted in the eventual physical death.

Ephesians 2:

1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )


All of Adam's progeny were/are dead in trespasses and sins (Eph 5:1). Even though all of Adam's progeny had/have physical life, God's Word tells us we are all dead in sins until/unless we are quickened together with Christ (Eph 2:5).

Adam and Eve, on the other hand, were created in the image of God (Gen 1:27) ... there was no sin/death until they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It was through the sin of Adam that death entered (Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin ...).

When Adam and Eve ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they both died in the day they ate. That Adam and Eve continued to have physical life after they ate does not mean that they were not dead in their trespass / sin.

Adam and Eve then had to be saved by grace through faith just like the rest of their descendants.

Immediately after Adam and Eve sinned, God said to satan And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel (Gen 3:15).

The seed of the woman is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Adam, Eve, and their descendants who lived prior to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, through faith in God's promise, were then saved by grace through faith ... just as descendants of Adam and Eve born after the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ are saved by grace through faith.