Genesis 3:16 He will rule over you.

[pottersclay]

The man to rule over is not one of authority but responsibility.
God chose the man to be head of household .
If you say you have a equal say and partnership in marriage then you have a freak.
Anything born with 2heads is a freak.
God chose the man to be accountable the women to be the helper. This is not a greater lesser thing but 2roles that are needed for a marriage to thrive and survive.

 

[JamOn]

Yes, God instructed Adam:

Genesis 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


And Adam told Eve as is revealed in Gen 3 (the verses you submitted in Post #94).


satan deceived Eve:

1Timothy 2:14 ... but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.


Adam was not deceived. He willingly ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and joined Eve in her transgression:

1Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived ...



Adam left his Father and joined his wife:

Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father ..., and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

I think God didn’t tell them how they will die but only that they would die. I think Eve had nerves of steel biting into the fruit not knowing really if she would actually die from eating it. Adam saw that she didn’t die so he ate the fruit also Eve might have said see I didn’t die from eating it. We know they didn’t die from just eating the fruit. the serpent said a half truth to live for ever the tree of life would be needed to be eaten also. Thus drove out of Eden into the natural world where things don’t live for ever. the death part was being out of Eden.

 

[posthuman]

that is what that is when your saying something like God took the fruit it goes beyond a lot of things that would have to be if God was Adam, I’m not understanding that statement?

the 'he' in what i wrote is Adam, not God.

at some point in time, Woman stood before Adam having eaten of the fruit and having death entered into her.
a fallen woman before an unfallen, undeceived man.

what will God do if Adam eats also?
what will God do if Adam does not eat?
what will be if Woman eats of the tree of life, in the state she was presently in?

Adam was faced with these things, and he made a decision considering them. he decided to join her in sin, and he didn't make this decision because he was deceived. it wasn't the same decision that she had made. until Christ's incarnation, there was never again a moment in time when a sinless man was implored by a woman fallen in sin.

 

[posthuman]

Sorry but no re-evaluating here. The plan truth is we have no idea of what Adam was actually thinking at the moment of his first sinful act and only God knows what both of them were thinking. Any opinion of what they might have been thinking is purely assumption with no scripture to back it up. Including my opinion. So please take a step back and judge yourself and admit that you are not God and have no proof to back up your assertions. Who said that God was in error? I know I didn't.

we do have scripture saying Adam was not deceived.
so any view we take of this in which we suppose he was deceived, is wrong. that includes being deceived by his wife just as much as being deceived by Satan.

we do have scripture saying Woman sinned first.
so any view we take of this in which we suppose Adam had 'failed' or 'sinned' by neglecting to prevent Woman from making this choice, is wrong, because it puts Adam in transgression before Woman.

 

[Sipsey]

No wait a minute. "Dying you shall die" is a misnomer. So which is it??? Did they die or did they begin to die?? It is a contradiction, one can't be dying while living and be dead at the same time. You can't have both at the same time. Logically speaking your either dying or your dead.
So I looked up the word "die" in my Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon and the word "die" is talking about an affliction put on them by God for their disobedience. I don't think Adam and Eve actually had a life expectancy and were intended to live perhaps for every. But sin found its way into their lives and sin is death though death doesn't occur suddenly but over a period of time in this example. The heart of Adam and Eve never stopped beating, they never stopped breathing and they never fell down as if they were dead.
The Strong's number I used is H4191 and did not give the same info as you have given.
"Dying you shall die" is actually talking about dying and dying over a peroid of time always leads to death. Hence from the day we are born we begin to die and our whole life is spent in the process of dying until our time has come and we die. That is what the words "Dying you shall die" is talking about.

Another way to view the phrase, “Dying, ye shall die,” is to see the relationship between God and Adam, and Eve, as broken or dead. That relationship was predicated on “trust” or “faith” in God. They were dead in their trespasses just as the NT speaks of our deadness prior to our rebirth. Nothing that is not dead needs to be reborn. Adam and Eve needed their relationship with God fixed, so they once again could could live the life as He intended.

All mankind has a broken relationship with God. We are told God is a spirit and “must” be worshipped in, or by, or through the Holy Spirit. That lack of Spirit is what makes us “dead” and Adam and Eve both, in a sense, “Died” spiritually. That spiritual rebirth is what brings us into a “right” relationship with God and “reconciles” us to Him. We are born His enemies but become His Children and even friend when, by faith we trust in Him.

So to paraphrase , “Dying (spiritually) you shall die (physically).

 

[posthuman]

Adam saw that she didn’t die so he ate the fruit also Eve might have said see I didn’t die from eating it.

that can't be true, because that puts Adam being deceived about whether death would result from eating the fruit.
the fruit about which God said, in the day you eat of it, dying you shall die.

Adam was not deceived, and God did not lie.

 

[massorite]

we do have scripture saying Adam was not deceived.
so any view we take of this in which we suppose he was deceived, is wrong. that includes being deceived by his wife just as much as being deceived by Satan.

we do have scripture saying Woman sinned first.
so any view we take of this in which we suppose Adam had 'failed' or 'sinned' by neglecting to prevent Woman from making this choice, is wrong, because it puts Adam in transgression before Woman.

we do have scripture saying Adam was not deceived.
so any view we take of this in which we suppose he was deceived, is wrong. that includes being deceived by his wife just as much as being deceived by Satan.

we do have scripture saying Woman sinned first.
so any view we take of this in which we suppose Adam had 'failed' or 'sinned' by neglecting to prevent Woman from making this choice, is wrong, because it puts Adam in transgression before Woman.

I never said that Adam was deceived. I did say that Adam was conned by he wife. People get conned into doing something they know they shouldn't do every day. One of the meanings of the word "con" is to "deceitfully manipulate"
Adam was with Eve when this all went down? Why didn’t he do anything to stop her? Unfortunately, Genesis doesn’t go into much detail on what Adam was doing while the serpent was persuading Eve to do this; we can only try to fill in the blanks about what happened. For all we know Adam could have been trying to talk her out of eating the fruit. Adam was deceitfully manipulated into committing his first sin. She used his love for her to talk him into committing that sin and even though Eve eat the fruit before Adam their eyes were not opened until after Adam ate the fruit and even then we have no idea how much persuasion it took before Adam ate the fruit or if there was any conversation at all.
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
Adam and Eve had no idea of what sin was because sin was not in the world until after they disobeyed God. All we can do is imagine and try to fill in the blanks. Its all purely speculation. Adam and Eve were not created with a sinful nature like we are born with.

 

[posthuman]

No He didn't for a lot of reason but one reason He didn't accept the Gaul is because it was laced with drugs. The idea of the Cross was to make the person on the cross suffer a long and painful death and the drugs were intended to do what drugs do. They would have cut down on the pain causing to person on the cross to suffer longer with less pain. Not to mention that it probably tasted pretty nasty.

they gave Him sour wine mingled with gall to drink. But when He had tasted it, He would not drink.
(Matthew 27:34)
​

was this not prophesied? why did He first taste it? where is the OT complement to tasting the gall and refusing it?

is it related to this -- ?

"Also take for yourself wheat, barley, beans, lentils, millet, and spelt; put them into one vessel, and make bread of them for yourself. During the number of days that you lie on your side, three hundred and ninety days, you shall eat it. And your food which you eat shall be by weight, twenty shekels a day; from time to time you shall eat it. You shall also drink water by measure, one-sixth of a hin; from time to time you shall drink. And you shall eat it as barley cakes; and bake it using fuel of human waste in their sight.”​

Then the Lord said, “So shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, where I will drive them.”​

So I said, “Ah, Lord God! Indeed I have never defiled myself from my youth till now; I have never eaten what died of itself or was torn by beasts, nor has abominable flesh ever come into my mouth.”​

Then He said to me, “See, I am giving you cow dung instead of human waste, and you shall prepare your bread over it.”​

(Ezekiel 4:9-15)
​

because i have heard it said that the sponge they dipped in the wine may be one used to wipe themselves in the latrine.

 

[posthuman]

I never said that Adam was deceived. I did say that Adam was conned by he wife. People get conned into doing something they know they shouldn't do every day. One of the meanings of the word "con" is to "deceitfully manipulate"

deceit = deception.
Adam was not deceived; that means he wasn't conned.
even if she did try to 'con' him he was not taken in by deception.
that is what 1 Timothy 2:14 tells us: in no way was he deceived.

 

[massorite]

Another way to view the phrase, “Dying, ye shall die,” is to see the relationship between God and Adam, and Eve, as broken or dead. That relationship was predicated on “trust” or “faith” in God. They were dead in their trespasses just as the NT speaks of our deadness prior to our rebirth. Nothing that is not dead needs to be reborn. Adam and Eve needed their relationship with God fixed, so they once again could could live the life as He intended.

All mankind has a broken relationship with God. We are told God is a spirit and “must” be worshipped in, or by, or through the Holy Spirit. That lack of Spirit is what makes us “dead” and Adam and Eve both, in a sense, “Died” spiritually. That spiritual rebirth is what brings us into a “right” relationship with God and “reconciles” us to Him. We are born His enemies but become His Children and even friend when, by faith we trust in Him.

So to paraphrase , “Dying (spiritually) you shall die (physically).

Not good enough. Neither Adam or Eve were dying physically or spiritually until after they ate the fruit and neither one of them fell dead after they ate. Eating the fruit started the process of dying until they eventually died, but not before they lived for hundreds of years.

 

[posthuman]

Adam was with Eve when this all went down?

no, i don't think so. that would imply he was deceived or that he listened to Satan. he wasn't and he didn't.
the text isn't explicit that they were together at the time she ate & leaves room to be understood as though they weren't, and reason implies that he wasn't.

 

[posthuman]

Not good enough. Neither Adam or Eve were dying physically or spiritually until after they ate the fruit and neither one of them fell dead after they ate. Eating the fruit started the process of dying until they eventually died, but not before they lived for hundreds of years.

we must use God's definition of death, not man's.
i don't believe there was any decay process in them before they ate.

 

[massorite]

they gave Him sour wine mingled with gall to drink. But when He had tasted it, He would not drink.​

(Matthew 27:34)​

​

was this not prophesied? why did He first taste it? where is the OT complement to tasting the gall and refusing it?

is it related to this -- ?

"Also take for yourself wheat, barley, beans, lentils, millet, and spelt; put them into one vessel, and make bread of them for yourself. During the number of days that you lie on your side, three hundred and ninety days, you shall eat it. And your food which you eat shall be by weight, twenty shekels a day; from time to time you shall eat it. You shall also drink water by measure, one-sixth of a hin; from time to time you shall drink. And you shall eat it as barley cakes; and bake it using fuel of human waste in their sight.”​

Then the Lord said, “So shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, where I will drive them.”​

So I said, “Ah, Lord God! Indeed I have never defiled myself from my youth till now; I have never eaten what died of itself or was torn by beasts, nor has abominable flesh ever come into my mouth.”​

Then He said to me, “See, I am giving you cow dung instead of human waste, and you shall prepare your bread over it.”​

(Ezekiel 4:9-15)​

​

because i have heard it said that the sponge they dipped in the wine may be one used to wipe themselves in the latrine.

Like I said, I am sure it was pretty nasty.

 

[posthuman]

Eve knew what was going also

1 Timothy 2:14 → Woman deceived, Adam not deceived. if we have any view contradicting this, it is necessarily error.

 

[proverbs35]

no, i don't think so. that would imply he was deceived or that he listened to Satan. he wasn't and he didn't.
the text isn't explicit that they were together at the time she ate & leaves room to be understood as though they weren't, and reason implies that he wasn't.

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, WHO WAS WITH HER, and he ate it. Genesis 3:6

 

[posthuman]

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, WHO WAS WITH HER, and he ate it. Genesis 3:6

what you've quoted is interpretive addition to the text. 'who was' is not part of what's actually written. a more literal translation:

And the woman seeth that the tree is good for food, and that it is pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make one wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat ​

(Genesis 3:6 ylt)​

​

'giveth also to her husband with her'

'with her' has reference to he also eating / he also having fruit, not to being present when she took the fruit.
she ate fruit; he ate fruit with her.
it's not locating Adam at the scene of Woman & the Serpent; it's identifying him as also having fruit 'with her'

 

[Sipsey]

Not good enough. Neither Adam or Eve were dying physically or spiritually until after they ate the fruit and neither one of them fell dead after they ate. Eating the fruit started the process of dying until they eventually died, but not before they lived for hundreds of years.

I believe that their spiritual death or separation was indeed immediate. We are told not to fear physical death, but the death of our soul or spirit. They were warned, before they ate.

 

[JamOn]

that can't be true, because that puts Adam being deceived about whether death would result from eating the fruit.
the fruit about which God said, in the day you eat of it, dying you shall die.

Adam was not deceived, and God did not lie.

We know the fruit did not kill either of them that is a truth is it not?, so where does the death come from?

Adam saw that the fruit didn’t kill Eve so he ate it that is not being deceived because the fruit wasn’t going to kill them in the first place, physical death came from something else.

 

[JamOn]

the 'he' in what i wrote is Adam, not God.

at some point in time, Woman stood before Adam having eaten of the fruit and having death entered into her.
a fallen woman before an unfallen, undeceived man.

what will God do if Adam eats also?
what will God do if Adam does not eat?
what will be if Woman eats of the tree of life, in the state she was presently in?

Adam was faced with these things, and he made a decision considering them. he decided to join her in sin, and he didn't make this decision because he was deceived. it wasn't the same decision that she had made. until Christ's incarnation, there was never again a moment in time when a sinless man was implored by a woman fallen in sin.

No you clearly said this below.

((what will God do if he doesn't take the fruit also?)))

Now you can say my bust i didn’t word it right, but you said it

And I’m still thinking about the abandoning you mentioned also that Adam was thinking kind of ironic I thought considering what a poster said to me about that same word

 

[JamOn]

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, WHO WAS WITH HER, and he ate it. Genesis 3:6

In my opinion that was a bold move on Eve part, God only said they would die not how they would die. then again the serpent was tricky and deceptive.