Galatian Conundrums

[posthuman]

You cannot find a verse in which Christ says to quit the Law.

it must first be understood that 'the law' is one law which is not separated into parts disconnected from the whole:
Exodus 24:24, Joshua 24:26, Deuteronomy 27:26, James 2:10, Galatians 5:3, Matthew 5:18-19 etc
then, understand these things:
John 13:34, Matthew 26:28/Luke 22:20 + Hebrews 8:13; John 4:21.

that other thread has been a settled question for quite some time IMO. the only thing left to it is those who refuse instruction and go on saying there is a keeping of the law while breaking 2/3 of it ((0.666 is a rough estimate))


but this is off-topic; you tryin' a hijack the thread??

 

[posthuman]

Jesus himself already clearly stated in Matthew 15:2 "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

He even told his 12 disciples in Matt 10:5-6 "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

If you don't want to accept that, that is your prerogative.

the very person He is speaking to in Matthew 15:24 is a Canaanite & He heals her daughter & praises her faith.
when He sends them out in Luke 10, the very next thing recorded is the parable of the good Samaritan.

seeing that you are now arguing the Samaritans were not to receive this gospel, what do you do with John 4? pretend it doesn't exist? even at that time, He said, the hour "now is" when the Father accepts worship neither at the temple nor at the high places of Samaria, but in the spirit, in truth - and this whole town of Samaritans believed ((believed what? a different gospel? a different identity of the Messiah?)) -- it is the fulfilling of what was written, by strange people He will make Israel jealous, because Israel first rejected Him, beginning to bud and ready to bloom. therefore He came first to His own, but His own did not receive Him: in order that through their unbelief, the whole world might come to belief. one belief; one identity; one Lord; one gospel; one Jesus

 

[Guojing]

the very person He is speaking to in Matthew 15:24 is a Canaanite & He heals her daughter & praises her faith.
when He sends them out in Luke 10, the very next thing recorded is the parable of the good Samaritan.

seeing that you are now arguing the Samaritans were not to receive this gospel, what do you do with John 4? pretend it doesn't exist? even at that time, He said, the hour "now is" when the Father accepts worship neither at the temple nor at the high places of Samaria, but in the spirit, in truth - and this whole town of Samaritans believed ((believed what? a different gospel? a different identity of the Messiah?)) -- it is the fulfilling of what was written, by strange people He will make Israel jealous, because Israel first rejected Him, beginning to bud and ready to bloom. therefore He came first to His own, but His own did not receive Him: in order that through their unbelief, the whole world might come to belief. one belief; one identity; one Lord; one gospel; one Jesus

I am not arguing what Jesus clearly stated in the Scripture that I have quoted.

You have a problem with those words, I am not the one you need to address.

 

[Whispered]

The word apostle with no other meaning simply means "sent one" Paul was not of the number 12 a remnant of all. It did not make him any less of a apostle

My reponse was to the post that I quoted and was shared in the context of that response.
Paul referred to himself more than a dozen times as, Apostle. While those that walked with Jesus never did. Nor was Paul the chosen one to replace Judas, as was mentioned in that quoted thread.

 

[PERFECTION]

Looking at the difference between Pauls ministry and that of Peters.
Pauls ministry was based on the vision the Holy Spirit imparted to him on the road to Damascus .
Not so with Peter . The only vision given to Peter was of the clean and unclean foods.
As a result of Pauls vision it was clear to him The Holy Spirit was sending him to minister to the gentiles.
As a result of Peters vision it was clear to him the Holy Spirit was sending him to minister to to Jews.

Peter at this point was still wishy-washy when it came to who should be circumcised and who should not.
Paul on the other hand, was shown by the Holy Spirit, that the law of circumcision was fulled on the cross.
Jesus did not reject Peter because of his lack of vision, but instead , allowed him time to mature into the truth.
It was the vision of the animals let down in the sheet as Jesus told Peter to rise kill and eat that Peter finally understood Christ acceptance of the gentiles. Plus the fact that Paul was finally brought to the point where he had to chastise Peter for his lack of acceptance of the truth.....that being.....the gentiles are fellow heirs with the Jews unto the salvation of God.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

You`ve been following this thread since it began. I know what you do and so do you.

I know what you did last summer

 

[7seasrekeyed]

More time wasting remarks as you work to take us back through issues that have already been discussed. Go read the posts if you really want to discuss.

man you really crack people up

this entire forum consists of issues that have been discussed so many times that most likely, apart from new members, the entire thing is only entertainment value

I am thinking your head must be like a balloon full of helium you are so full of your own self importance

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Samaritans are actually half Jews half Gentiles.

In the Gospel of the Kingdom, the Gentiles could be saved, but only thru the Jews (Genesis 12:3).

Examples include Rahab, who was saved because she hid the Jewish spies, the Roman Centurion, who helped the Jews build the synagogue, and the Canaanite lady, who ask to eat the crumbs that fell from the Jewish children's bread.

scratching my head wondering how I have missed Jews saving people

Genesis 12:3, KJV: "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."

says absolutely nothing ^^^^^about Jews saving Samaritans or any other race

what it actually does say, is that God, not the Jews, is going to bless those who bless Abraham and curse those who curse him, Further, ALL the families of the earth will be bless through Abraham (at that time Abram).

the blessing of all the families is evident through salvation through Christ

Abrahamm's righteousness was by his faith and our righteousness is also by faith through Christ

there is only one gospel as the NT clearly indicates

this fragmenting of the Bible is nothing but confusion and teaching of demons IMO

like scripture states, DOCTRINES OF DEMONS.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Jesus himself already clearly stated in Matthew 15:2 "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

He even told his 12 disciples in Matt 10:5-6 "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

If you don't want to accept that, that is your prerogative.

so what did He mean by go into all the world and preach THE (not half a dozen) gospel....

you know, I get irritated when I read such utter nonsense from people who appear to believe they have something of merit to add concerning scripture but instead create confusion for those who are possibly just learning or the gullible

for example, what Jesus said to his disciples...clearly clearly He did not mean for all time. it was the specific period during which He was on earth before His death and resurrection

otherwise, He would not ever have said GO INTO ALL THE WORLD

do you suppose the Creator did not know the actual size or population of the world?

actually, no, no one should accept your particular brand of misunderstanding

you should not be handling scripture and telling others to accept what you say

 

[7seasrekeyed]

It is my understanding that Messianic Jews follow the teachings of Jesus and consider Him to be their Lord and Savior. They sure aren't about keeping the law of Moses. They believe that Jesus is the Messiah and that is why that they are considered to be Messianic Jews.

well yes

but of course, just as with Christians, there are various sects and groups

it is ironic that the mose blatant so called law followers are mostly Gentiles who seem to think that acting like an OT Jew will make them more holy or whatever

yes they believe Jesus is the Messiah

it occurs to me that we have Judaizers right up to this day and I am not speaking of circumcision

I mean those who want to ADD to salvation for bonus points or something or worse, they will tell you that Jesus blood is not enough and you must also be baptized or you are not saved or follow this law or that law or you are not saved or some other means to diminish the actual plan of God for our salvation

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Jesus said His mission was to fulfill the law and the prophets. That`s Biblical. Your remarks are beliefs you have been indoctrinated with.

I'm going to say like Paul said to the Galatians

who has bewitched you?

it appears you have utterly missed the fact that the law, which no human has ever been able to complete...that is obey with no sin...was fulfilled in Jesus


I'm serious here...do you understand the sacrifice Christ made on your behalf? what you post is utter rubbish and very misleading

I am wondering if you are simply an unrepentant troll having a good time here

it has happened before and you do not sound genuine

your so called teaching is not biblical, you do not support the ONE gospel taught in scripture; in fact you deny it

you deploy scripture completely out of context and tell others they have not used scripture when obviously they most certainly have done so; you just avoid it or twist it or ignore it

you are rude and condescending...which people do not care about but it shows where you are coming from...everyone here has probably been rude and or condescending at one time or another but they do not make a general habit of it

people are saying you were here previously under another name, that may or may not be, but if you were and were banned, I can understand why that could happen to you

 

[Absolutely]

Jesus said His mission was to fulfill the law and the prophets. That`s Biblical. Your remarks are beliefs you have been indoctrinated with.

fine.
Just throw out jn 3;16
then pretend Jesus did not preach DBR and you have a winner there son.

 

[posthuman]

I am not arguing what Jesus clearly stated in the Scripture that I have quoted.

You have a problem with those words, I am not the one you need to address.

sounds like you have a problem with John 4 that you need to address the Author about *shrug*

 

[posthuman]

Jesus said His mission was to fulfill the law and the prophets.

the law and the prophets testify of His death, burial & resurrection. so..

 

[Absolutely]

To show from scripture why this above view is faulty.

Ignorant of Jesus’ Death, burial, and resurrection

1. Matthew 16:21-22 – Jesus first began to tell them of his death and yet Peter tried to prevent it.
2. Mark 8:31-32 – Another account of Peter rebuking the Lord for speaking about his death.
3. Mark 9:31-32 – After hearing about the death and resurrection of Jesus the disciples “understood not and were afraid to ask him”
4. Luke 9:44-45 – “But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.”
5. Luke 18:31-34 – “And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.”
6. John 2:21-22 – They did not understand the resurrection until after it happened.

Disbelief in the Resurrection
7. Mark 16:5-14 – The ladies were afraid when they found the tomb empty. The disciples did not believe after two witnesses testified of the resurrection.
8. Luke 24:1-4 – The ladies were perplexed about what had happened to Jesus.
9. Luke 24:8-12 – The stories of Jesus’ “disappearance” were idle tales. Peter wondered what happened.
10. John 20:2 – Mary Magdalene thought someone had stolen Jesus after he had resurrected.
11. John 20:7-9 – The disciples after seeing the empty tomb believed Mary that someone had stolen Jesus. They did not know about the resurrection yet.

Did not understand the cross for salvation
12. John 20:21-23 – Even after the resurrection, the disciples did not understand what it accomplished. Here they are given the authority to remit sins.
13. Acts 3:14-15 – The crucifixion was presented as a murder indictment to Israel at Pentecost. The resurrection as a warning that he would return to seek vengeance.
14. Acts 5:28 – Instead of the blood being payment for sins it was presented as the evidence of guilty murderers.
15. Acts 7:52 – Stephen accuses the rulers of betrayal and murder of the Just One.
16. Acts 10:39 – According to Paul’s gospel Christ died willingly in the place of sinners. According to Peter he died because he was slain by certain Jews. Could it be that Peter does not yet understand the mystery of the cross?

Conclusions:
This list does not prove that the Twelve were disobedient to the gospel that was presented to them. Contrarily, they were some of the first believers in the gospel of the kingdom. They were among the faithful remnant of Israel who trusted that Jesus was the Son of God and promised Messiah.

However, these verses show that the gospel they knew and trusted was not the preaching of the cross that Paul taught. Whereas they knew Jesus Christ as Messiah to Israel, Paul would later teach Jesus Christ on the cross as payment for sins to Gentiles.
The preaching of the cross was offered for salvation first through the Apostle Paul as the Lord revealed the meaning of the death, burial, and resurrection. The Twelve apostles were ignorant of this message.

"...to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery..." Ephesians 3:9

Why are you going back before peter repented?
He had a few crisis of faith,but it was he ,before Paul,that got the revelation of salvation to the gentiles.
Heck if you want to go back to some arbitrary point of disenfranchisement,we need not leave Paul out.
Paul was so screwed up he had believers tortured and killed.
So add Paul to your list of disillusioned men of God.

I am saying that JESUS preached his own DBR and others BEFORE PAUL understood it.

...not that any really understood it while the incarnate son of God walked his earthly ministry....But Jesus did. And so to say he preached outside his own understanding is silly.

 

[Absolutely]

Acts 2 really answers to peters understanding of the gospel of grace.(dbr)
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians,


.......14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Now this is roughly 50 days after Jesus ascention. (ahem,way before paul had ended his insane killing spree)

SO,WHAT WERE YOU SAYING ABOUT ONLY PAUL HAD THE REVELATION????

 

[Absolutely]

Looking at the difference between Pauls ministry and that of Peters.
Pauls ministry was based on the vision the Holy Spirit imparted to him on the road to Damascus .
Not so with Peter . The only vision given to Peter was of the clean and unclean foods.
As a result of Pauls vision it was clear to him The Holy Spirit was sending him to minister to the gentiles.
As a result of Peters vision it was clear to him the Holy Spirit was sending him to minister to to Jews.

Peter at this point was still wishy-washy when it came to who should be circumcised and who should not.
Paul on the other hand, was shown by the Holy Spirit, that the law of circumcision was fulled on the cross.
Jesus did not reject Peter because of his lack of vision, but instead , allowed him time to mature into the truth.
It was the vision of the animals let down in the sheet as Jesus told Peter to rise kill and eat that Peter finally understood Christ acceptance of the gentiles. Plus the fact that Paul was finally brought to the point where he had to chastise Peter for his lack of acceptance of the truth.....that being.....the gentiles are fellow heirs with the Jews unto the salvation of God.

Not so with Peter . The only vision given to Peter was of the clean and unclean foods.

nope,the vision was that the gospel was also given to the gentiles. peter was the first to receive the revelation of the gospel to be preached to the gentiles.

acts 11;
7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.

8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.

9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

10 And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.

11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.

12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

 

[Absolutely]

Acts 10 is also the setting of the vision of the unclean foods;
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

 

[Whispered]

I know what you did last summer

Wrong smiley.

man you really crack people up

this entire forum consists of issues that have been discussed so many times that most likely, apart from new members, the entire thing is only entertainment value

I am thinking your head must be like a balloon full of helium you are so full of your own self importance

That's a keeper. It's a man that's an airhead. Such a refreshing change from the usual female implications.

 

[Absolutely]

so what did He mean by go into all the world and preach THE (not half a dozen) gospel....

you know, I get irritated when I read such utter nonsense from people who appear to believe they have something of merit to add concerning scripture but instead create confusion for those who are possibly just learning or the gullible

for example, what Jesus said to his disciples...clearly clearly He did not mean for all time. it was the specific period during which He was on earth before His death and resurrection

otherwise, He would not ever have said GO INTO ALL THE WORLD

do you suppose the Creator did not know the actual size or population of the world?

actually, no, no one should accept your particular brand of misunderstanding

you should not be handling scripture and telling others to accept what you say

He would not ever have said GO INTO ALL THE WORLD

see that's the thing.

To miss it,that Jesus was after mankind is to walk up to a barn with a shotgun and pull both triggers and miss from 2 ft away.


In rev it says of those in the wrath of God under extreme torture "and still they would not repent"
To see that ,a mercy and grace so deep,and not be impressed is beyond me.
God is relentless in his pursuit of man.Not Jews or gentiles but MEN,WOMEN AND CHILDREN.