For the Christian, when does God forgive sins?

[selahsays]

It seems a lot of folks think the word “elect” is a dirty word. I’ll bet many of us are of the elect and don’t even know it.

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

- Ephesians 1:1-6 (KJV)

 

[CS1]

I am speaking here of those sins that a Christian commits after he has been born again. In relation to past sins, most Christians are completely agreed that past sins are forgiven at conversion (the new birth). But there are several different explanations of how sins are forgiven after the new birth.

Those different explanations fall broadly into three categories:
(1) Those who believe that at the new birth all of a person's sins already committed and those yet in the future are forgiven at the moment of being born again.
(2) Those who believe that a Christian must confess/repent to God after committing a sin, and then the sin is forgiven.
(3) Those who believe that a Christian who sins is immediately forgiven of the sin at the moment that it is forgiven because of the Christian's faith in the atoning of the blood of Christ

Those who teach Calvinism, eternal security, or the perseverance of saints fall mostly under #1.

Those who teach #2 tend to be of the Arminian camp in some form or other. There are many variances taught under #2 - that is - the question arises: If the sin is not forgiven yet, is this person still saved?

I believe #3. I believe that this is the only approach of the three that offers a clear and straightforward daily assurance of salvation to the believer.

Sins that are done by a Christian should experience conviction for doing them. Grieving the Holy Spirit. The Christians also have mercy each day new to them. Yet. Sin should not reign in our bodies. We are told to come boldly to the Throne room of Grace to obtain mercy in our time of need. God is not mocked. He knows who is true and those who are trying to prostitute His grace to practice sin.

Jesus said " I Never knew you." God is very much in knowing who are His children those who made mistake sin= "missing the mark"

And these who have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. We can fool man but never God.

 

[Chester]

I would say that they are covered by the grace of God.
One does not fall from grace over one sin but rather a deliberate rejection of one's Christian faith.

In actual practice I would agree with you that we "don't fall from grace over one sin, but rather than a deliberate rejection of one's Christian faith." But I am trying to dig a bit deeper in this thread: that is - it only takes one sin till one faces the wages of eternal death. And the only payment for sin is a blood atonement. No one will escape the wages of sin unless they are clinging to the blood payment of Jesus on Calvary. Thus one can I suppose say it is God's grace that "covers" one errant sin of a believer - but in actuality a sin must be forgiven, not just "covered" - And so the only way a Christian who sins will get into heaven is if that sin is forgiven by the blood of Christ.

And I conclude that when a Christian sins they are forgiven because of their faith in that blood atonement.

At one point in my life interpreted "confess" in I John 1:9 as saying the right words of sorrow/grief/ et. to God. I thought that if I got angry at my brother, and then that evening in a prayer told God that I was sorry, that then God would forgive me. But this approach makes forgiveness depend upon my external actions (words in fact!). Forgiveness is because of what Jesus has done, not because of what I might be able to do. Furthermore, at least for me, this view made me think God was a tyrannical kind of Judge watching me ongoingly threatening to send me to hell if I did not confess (say the right words).

A key in understanding here is what the Biblical word "confess" means: it means literally = to say the same thing as - or "to agree with". So confession is at the root a heart attitude toward God. When this heart attitude is present, it should and will be expressed in proper words, but the words are not the proof of confession.

Thus in I John 1:9 - "if we confess our sins" does not require the correct external words before God forgives. The requirement is a heart of agreeing with God (believing in the need for His Son's atonement).

I maintain that to understand, teach, and live a proper concept of God's love in forgiving our sins will lead to less sinning, not more sinning. His forgiveness is so great that he does not count the number of our sins, and He forgives, and forgives, and forgives. If it was not so, I would have used up my 490 (70x7) forgivenesses long ago!

 

[Bruce_Leiter]

I am speaking here of those sins that a Christian commits after he has been born again. In relation to past sins, most Christians are completely agreed that past sins are forgiven at conversion (the new birth). But there are several different explanations of how sins are forgiven after the new birth.

Those different explanations fall broadly into three categories:
(1) Those who believe that at the new birth all of a person's sins already committed and those yet in the future are forgiven at the moment of being born again.
(2) Those who believe that a Christian must confess/repent to God after committing a sin, and then the sin is forgiven.
(3) Those who believe that a Christian who sins is immediately forgiven of the sin at the moment that it is forgiven because of the Christian's faith in the atoning of the blood of Christ

Those who teach Calvinism, eternal security, or the perseverance of saints fall mostly under #1.

Those who teach #2 tend to be of the Arminian camp in some form or other. There are many variances taught under #2 - that is - the question arises: If the sin is not forgiven yet, is this person still saved?

I believe #3. And I believe that this is the only approach of the three that offers a clear and straightforward daily assurance of salvation to the believer.

Explain number 3 better. What do you mean by forgiveness? Is it justification, that is, God's declaring us "not-guilty" and right with him, as our Judge, or what? I think Paul in Romans 3 makes it clear that God the Father justifies us when we first believe, but we continue to sin and need daily cleansing from those sins. But we are often unaware of many of our sins; those he will enable us to FEEL guilty, but their legal guilt has already been forgiven through justification. For those, we need to claim Jesus' victory over them and confess them until our guilty feelings go away by God's power operating in our lives.

 

[Karlon]

I am speaking here of those sins that a Christian commits after he has been born again. In relation to past sins, most Christians are completely agreed that past sins are forgiven at conversion (the new birth). But there are several different explanations of how sins are forgiven after the new birth.

Those different explanations fall broadly into three categories:
(1) Those who believe that at the new birth all of a person's sins already committed and those yet in the future are forgiven at the moment of being born again.
(2) Those who believe that a Christian must confess/repent to God after committing a sin, and then the sin is forgiven.
(3) Those who believe that a Christian who sins is immediately forgiven of the sin at the moment that it is forgiven because of the Christian's faith in the atoning of the blood of Christ

Those who teach Calvinism, eternal security, or the perseverance of saints fall mostly under #1.

Those who teach #2 tend to be of the Arminian camp in some form or other. There are many variances taught under #2 - that is - the question arises: If the sin is not forgiven yet, is this person still saved?

I believe #3. And I believe that this is the only approach of the three that offers a clear and straightforward daily assurance of salvation to the believer.

they're already forgiven for a Christian. it's alright to ask because it's human.

 

[Chester]

Explain number 3 better. What do you mean by forgiveness? Is it justification, that is, God's declaring us "not-guilty" and right with him, as our Judge, or what? I think Paul in Romans 3 makes it clear that God the Father justifies us when we first believe, but we continue to sin and need daily cleansing from those sins. But we are often unaware of many of our sins; those he will enable us to FEEL guilty, but their legal guilt has already been forgiven through justification. For those, we need to claim Jesus' victory over them and confess them until our guilty feelings go away by God's power operating in our lives.

Perhaps you are thinking more deeply theologically than my intentions here. Surely "justification" is related to forgiveness and they definitely overlap, but they are not parallel terms.

When I say forgiveness I mean that every sin must be forgiven, be gone, (the Greek word aphieme means "to leave") if we are to reach heaven. The wages of sin = death. So one sin means eternal death. There is no escape unless there is a blood sacrifice - "without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin." And we know that the only possibility for forgiveness is the shed blood (faith in) of Jesus Christ, the perfect Lamb of God.

So my view (#3) is that at initial salvation, when we are born again (justified), that all of our sins to that point in our life are forgiven (gone) - we have a clean slate before God! From that point on as we have and are living out our faith in God, every sin that we commit (and I also would include sins of omission - or as you say sins we are "unaware" of) is forgiven by God.

The difference in View # 3 is that forgiveness is always ongoing for the believer. But for the person who is not a believer, there is no ongoing forgiveness. View # 1 either asserts that ongoing belief is not necessary for forgiveness, or it asserts that once a person has at a point in time become a believer, he must and will continue to believe (thus he effectively loses freedom of choice).

I am not sure if I understand your distinction between "legal guilt" and "feeling" guilty. I understand guilt to be a factual issue: feelings have nothing to do with whether one is guilty or not. If one sins, he is guilty: that is a fact. But for the believer, he is forgiven, and the fact (guilt) is no more. He may still have "feelings" about his sin, but that is different than the facts.

 

[Duck]

My study on Confession. The Greek interpretation is "Say what God says". That is, to agree that God's word says its a sin and acknowledge agreement with God that you sinned. Its your heart after that. You cannot agree its a sin and not be sorry. So confess righteously and honestly.

 

[heavenbelieve]

.
The Greek word - “ ἄφεσις - aphesis / af'-es-is “ means literally = To Fully Pardon - Complete Forgiveness,
to fully, completely Pardon as to Absolve, Exonerate, Forgive “ fully give freedom. “

and the truth is, this Greek word - ἄφεσις - aphesis - is only used 17 total times in the entire manuscripts of the N.T.

yet, we notice in the K.J.V translation the word forgive is used 69 total times

and we notice in the Catholic D.R.B. translation the word forgive is used 62 total times - ἄφεσις - aphesi

forgive _____ 28 times, K.J.V / 26 times Catholic D.R.B.
forgiven _____ 24 K.J.V times, / 25 times, Catholic D.R.B.
forgave _____ 8 K.J.V times, / 4 times, Catholic D.R.B.
forgiveness _____ 6 K.J.V times, / 3 times, Catholic D.R.B.
forgiving _____ 2 K.J.V times, / 3 times, Catholic D.R.B.
forgiveth _____ 1 K.J.V times, / 1 times, Catholic D.R.B.
----------------------------
= ____ 69 total times - K.J.V / 62 total times - Catholic D.R.B.

In the Greek manuscripts - “ ἄφεσις - aphesis / af'-es-is “ is only used 17 total times, the question is why and what does this mean in context and what are the other Greek words used that the translators are using - as “ forgive “ ?

Here are the 17 total times this Greek word - ἄφεσις - aphesis - is used in the manuscripts,

Mat 26:28 my blood of the new testament, ….. is shed for many, for the “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ of sins;
Mar 1:4 John preached…….. baptism of repentance for the “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ of sins;
Mar 3:29 blaspheme the Spirit Of The Holy never has “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ in danger of eternal damnation:
Luk 1:77 Jesus gives………. knowledge of salvation ……… by the “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ of their sins;
Luk 3:3 { John the Baptist } ……… preaching the baptism of repentance for the “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ of sins;
Luk 4:18 to preach “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ to the captives - to set at “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ the broken
Luk 24:47 ……. repentance and “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ of sins should be preached in his name
Act 2:38 Repent, and be baptized ……in the name of Jesus Christ for the “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ of sins;
Act 5:31 Jesus . …… Savior, for to give repentance to Israel, and “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ of sins.
Act 10:43 whosoever believeth in him shall receive “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ of sins.
Act 13:38 { Jesus } ……. this man is preached unto you the “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ of sins:
Act 26:18 that they may receive “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ of sins; and inheritance ….. sanctified by faith that is in me.
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ of sins
Col 1:14 { in Jesus } we have redemption through his blood, even the “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ of sins.
Heb 9:22 and without shedding of blood is no “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ of sins;
Heb 10:18 Now where “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ of sins; of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

 

[heavenbelieve]

.
The answer is in the Greek manuscripts

in fact, there is never again any other mentioning whatsoever a mention nor a usage of this Greek word in the New Testament manuscripts that are - applying the Forgiveness, Pardon - as to fully and completely Pardon as to Absolve, Exonerate, Forgive…… outside of these verses using the Greek word “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ 17 total times

And all of these passages are ONLY - ONLY centered around Gods shed blood and the work of God through repentance and the repentant sinner existing in the state and status of a sinner whom is receiving salvation by faith in His word .

This Greek word never, ever - never AGAIN APPLIES nor APPEARS anywhere else throug in the manuscripts - under any other circumstances in all of the approXimately other 50 verses where we see the word “ forgiveness “ in the translations


After we repent and receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit we receive FORGIVENESS, PARDONING, ABSOLVING, EXONERATION of sins. God whom has already fully forgiven and pardoned, PARDONING our sins, this pardon and forgiveness was already done 2000 years ago on the cross by shedding his blood.

It is ONLY in this context that this Greek word is used and ALSO in the applied anointing to the context of the broken and repentant sinner believing as a sinner in repentance and receiving the “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ of sins that was already given and completed 2000 years ago on the cross by the blood sacrifice……

That this pardon and forgiveness was already done 2000 years ago by shedding of blood on the cross, once we receive this knowledge and repent we are ….. sanctified by faith in his offering of salvation and receive “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ of sins. Then another Greek word is used that is the Greek word

Χαρίζομαι - charizomai - meaning = To grant as a favor, that is, gratuitously, in kindness, pardon or rescue: - deliver, (frankly) forgive, (freely) give, grant

Χαρίζομαι - This Greek word “ forgive “ in the Bible - is never ever applied to God forgiving mankind but is only applied to mankind receiving from other mankind - ------ forgiveness as - mankind to mankind - not from God

ἀφίημι - aphiēmi - meaning = To send forth - away , lay aside, leave, let alone, be gone, put away. yield up sin
God has already Pardoned and Forgiven, Absolved, Exonerated “ ἄφεσις - aphesis \ forgiveness “ of sins.


AFTER WE REPENT - WE ASK THAT GOD WILL

“ ἀφίημι - aphiēmi “ our sins - meaning = To send away our sins to give us strength to - lay aside, leave, let alone and be gone and put away and yield up our sin that he has already forgiven / pardoned 2000 years ago that we receive by repenting, baptism and receiving the gift of the Spirit of the Holy by the Anointing Jesus

This “ ἄφεσις \ - aphesis forgiveness “ Forgiveness and Pardon was already done Completed one time 2000 years ago by shedding of blood on the cross

Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

:18 Now where “ ἄφεσις \ forgiveness “ of sins; of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

 

[heavenbelieve]

this completely removes any ideology for the Roman Catholic teaching that a priest can forgive sins

the Roman Catholic Translation and even this Catholic teaching - simply is not supported by the Greek manuscripts themselves

the King James version also does not convey this very clear message found within the manuscripts