First resurrection, Rev. 20:1-6

[Absolutely]

I must have misunderstood you a few years back.
Are you allergic to the word rapture, since it is the commonly used translated word for harpazo ?
The reason I hold back from the pre-wrath position is because it does away with 'imminency'. There are too many warnings in Scripture to always 'watch and be ready for you do not know when'. Example...

Matthew 24:42 (KJV) Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I always thought till now he was post 7 yr trib.
The new mid trib is post trib pre wrath.
Tedious to me.
Now i need to say post 7 yr trib.
And "gathering of the living per 1thes 4 ,preceeded by the dead in Christ,but basically together,to heaven" instead of "the rapture"

 

[Absolutely]

...or just a *, and devise a 2 page siggy line of the new definitions.

 

[louis]

These verses tells us who is included in the first resurrection and when this will happen.
The "tribulation saints" are included and It happens when Jesus returns, binds Satin for 1000 years, and begins His reign 1000 year reign on the earth.
It also plainly states this is the first resurrection and those who are not in the first resurrection will suffer the second death.

If the "rapture of the church" happens before the tribulation, but the tribulation saint are resurrected after the tribulation and are included in the first resurrection, we have a dilemma here.
How can these two groups both be in the first resurrection if their resurrections are several years apart?

They who are killed for the Word of God are they resurrected in the first resurrection, who will reign with Christ 1000 years (Revelation 20:4-6).
This, however, does not state that all in the second resurrection at the end of the Millennium reign suffer the second death.
At the second reusrrection at the end of the millennium reign we see two books opened (Revelation 20:12-15), and anyone who was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. The book of life is there, because there will be those who lived by its beliefs. These simply were not martyred for the Word of God.
I believe that probably the vast majority of people who believe in the Word fall into this second category.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[garee]

1)
the departure first

and the man of sin

be revealed

I think the man of sin (Satan) has already been revealed and is shown clearly how he does his work to try and deceive the whole world.

There were many antichrist here when the warning was written . We are in the last days, a great tribulation for a outward Jew that did identify their flesh with salvation. One like never before or ever again (one promised demonstatation)

Christ will come in as a thief in the night on the last day .There is nothing that must be fullfed.

No direct signs to wonder in as wonderment .

Signs of the times like in the day of Noah yes. No wonders as a source of faith

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk "by faith", not by sight

 

[garee]

They who are killed for the Word of God are they resurrected in the first resurrection, who will reign with Christ 1000 years (Revelation 20:4-6).
This, however, does not state that all in the second resurrection at the end of the Millennium reign suffer the second death.
At the second reusrrection at the end of the millennium reign we see two books opened (Revelation 20:12-15), and anyone who was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. The book of life is there, because there will be those who lived by its beliefs. These simply were not martyred for the Word of God.
I believe that probably the vast majority of people who believe in the Word fall into this second category.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Christ will come on the "last day" as a thief in the night. He will not estblaish his kingdom in respect to a corrupted creation.

The "last day. The day of the Lord is used 6 times in John to establish the end of the world as we know it or . Judgment day for the unbelievers and in the same twinkling of the eye our new incorruptible bodies (neither male nor female Jew nor gentile . We are not what we will be. The Sun and moon as temporal time keepers have performed their mission .In the new order there will be no night to represent evil The former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind.(universal Alzheimer's as part of death and decay ..

John 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

John 6:39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

There will not be a mixture of be creatures in their new bodies who have no recognition of their surrounding reining with Christ on earth for a literal thousand years.

Where that idea came for would make a interesting study.

 

[crossnote]

I think the man of sin (Satan) has already been revealed and is shown clearly how he does his work to try and deceive the whole world.

Since you are equating the man of sin with satan, then who is the beast and false prophet?...

And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. (Rev 19:20)

Yet later, after the 1000 years...

and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(Rev 20:10)

See how Scripture interprets itself without spiritualizing the text.

 

[dcontroversal]

Since you are equating the man of sin with satan, then who is the beast and false prophet?...

And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. (Rev 19:20)

Yet later, after the 1000 years...

and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(Rev 20:10)

See how Scripture interprets itself without spiritualizing the text.

Really want to blow someone's mind.....we know the beast is a man by the use of personal pronouns as in---> HIM, HIS, HE, etc....and verses like you cited above.....

When John pens Revelation it states the beast that

Was <---past tense
IS NOT <---in the present tense when John is penning Revelation
SHALL ASCEND out of the PIT <----FUTURE TENSE

Most skip right over this and or explain it away with some flippant answer.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Christ will come on the "last day" as a thief in the night. He will not estblaish his kingdom in respect to a corrupted creation.

The "last day. The day of the Lord is used 6 times in John to establish the end of the world as we know it or . Judgment day for the unbelievers and in the same twinkling of the eye our new incorruptible bodies (neither male nor female Jew nor gentile . We are not what we will be. The Sun and moon as temporal time keepers have performed their mission .In the new order there will be no night to represent evil The former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind.(universal Alzheimer's as part of death and decay ..

John 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

John 6:39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

There will not be a mixture of be creatures in their new bodies who have no recognition of their surrounding reining with Christ on earth for a literal thousand years.

Where that idea came for would make a interesting study.

And how was time established and marked off <----the EVENING and the MORNING was the 1st day

When is the last day <----When the 7th trump begins to sound TIME shall be NO MORE......

Of course this gets explained away and or flat denied....oh well!!!!

 

[crossnote]

Really want to blow someone's mind.....we know the beast is a man by the use of personal pronouns as in---> HIM, HIS, HE, etc....and verses like you cited above.....

When John pens Revelation it states the beast that

Was <---past tense
IS NOT <---in the present tense when John is penning Revelation
SHALL ASCEND out of the PIT <----FUTURE TENSE

Most skip right over this and or explain it away with some flippant answer.....

Let's stipulate the beast is a man.

From the text (Rev 17:8) the word 'was' would mean a person from before John's time...but possibly who?

and then in vs 6&7 you have the beast carrying the woman' who was drunk with the blood of the martyred saints.

This is beyond my pay grade (quoting a presidential candidate we'd rather not say ).

 

[dcontroversal]

Let's stipulate the beast is a man.

From the text (Rev 17:8) the word 'was' would mean a person from before John's time...but possibly who?

and then in vs 6&7 you have the beast carrying the woman' who was drunk with the blood of the martyred saints.

This is beyond my pay grade (quoting a presidential candidate we'd rather not say ).

WAS just means past tense when John pens Revelation........IS NOT means whoever it is was, is not alive when JOHN pens Revelation and SHALL ascend out of the PIT = the same person COMING up out of the pit......SO......ONE who was ALIVE before REVELATION is penned, IS NOT alive while REVELATION is penned and ASCENDS out of the PIT in the FUTURE after REVELATION is written............

AND for sure we cannot alleviate the personal pronouns applied...HE HIM HIS..........YOU know......SATAN wanted the body of MOSES because I believe he could have possessed it and led Israel astray.....NOT saying it is MOSES......but rather the POINT that the coming of the MAN of SIN is after the EFFECTUAL power and working of SATAN <--2nd Thessalonians.......

Is it possible that this person was alive once and like JESUS resurrected, SATAN mimics JESUS and is allowed the power to BRING one back from the PIT and then animate them by possession?

 

[crossnote]

Is it possible that this person was alive once and like JESUS resurrected, SATAN mimics JESUS and is allowed the power to BRING one back from the PIT and then animate them by possession?

Do you know of any infamous person's in Scripture that also did lying wonders as a foreshadow of his reappearance?

 

[dcontroversal]

Do you know of any infamous person's in Scripture that also did lying wonders as a foreshadow of his reappearance?

Well.......there are examples of limited magical experiences.....the magicians in Egypt mimicked Moses for the first couple miracles.....also the men that were worshiped as gods in the kingdoms of antiquity were said to have power....the interesting truth.....the world will receive this an as god due to the delusion God sends among ALL that will not receive the love of the truth........

I do find it interesting that the definite article "THE" is applied unto Judas as THE SON of PERDITION................

 

[jb]

Christ will come in as a thief in the night on the last day .There is nothing that must be fullfed.

You must be reading a different Bible from me!

Have a look at 2Thess 2v1-12, it clearly tells the signs that the believer should look out for before His Second Coming, and not to be deceived!

Maybe you haven't read that part of your Bible?

 

[tourist]

YEP....and I have many things to say and you are not ready to hear them......The N.T. was written after Christ ascended and by MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE, Paul's hand, Peter's hand and John's hand we have been told there are things that must come to pass FIRST......JESUS will not COME until these things COME TO PASS.......end of story

Quite a few things actually, including the rebuilding of the temple on the exact specified location, and construction criteria, and the signing of the seven year peace treaty that supposedly guarantee the security of Israel. Also, the little matter of the battle in the valley of Megiddo, which in Hebrew means Armageddon. A hostile force of 200,000,000 will march against Israel. It will be the 'mother of all battles" using a termed coined by Saddam Hussein during the first Gulf war.

 

[dcontroversal]

You must be reading a different Bible from me!

Have a look at 2Thess 2v1-12, it clearly tells the signs that the believer should look out for before His Second Coming, and not to be deceived!

Maybe you haven't read that part of your Bible?

Not to mention that two verses down in the "thief" context he tells them that they are NOT in darkness that that day should overtake them as a thief.......amazing how many quote that one statement while being oblivious to the rest of the context

 

[FlyingDove]

1 Cor 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
(NOTE: Christ the 1st human resurrected)

1 Cor 15:21 For since by man (ADAM) came death, by man (CHRIST) came also the resurrection of the dead.

1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(NOTE: Everyone will participate in the resurrection)

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
(NOTE: The just/believers to the judgment/bema seat of Christ (2 Cor 5:10) unto eternal life with Christ & the unjust/unbelievers unto the White throne judgment (Rev 20:11-15) seat & eternal seperation from Christ)

Luk 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
(NOTE: Angels are eternal beings, both the resurrected just/believers & unjust/non believers, will live forever)

Rev 20:
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. MOO!

 

[FollowHisSteps]

These verses tells us who is included in the first resurrection and when this will happen.
The "tribulation saints" are included and It happens when Jesus returns, binds Satin for 1000 years, and begins His reign 1000 year reign on the earth.
It also plainly states this is the first resurrection and those who are not in the first resurrection will suffer the second death.

If the "rapture of the church" happens before the tribulation, but the tribulation saint are resurrected after the tribulation and are included in the first resurrection, we have a dilemma here.
How can these two groups both be in the first resurrection if their resurrections are several years apart?

It also plainly states this is the first resurrection and those who are not in the first resurrection will suffer the second death.

6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them,
but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Rev 20

A small point, which suggests a deeper problem. Revelations says the first resurrection people will not suffer the
the second death, nothing more ie. they have eternal life.

Suggesting those not in this first resurrection will be thrown into the lake of fire, is simply not there, and it is a dangerous
thing to say and add to the book of revelation, for the very reason warnings are given.

I fear for those who so quickly want to interpret that which is not there to be changed, added to or taken away from.
Why is there so little fear of a God who kills those who miss-use His Holy instruments?
Are they really people of faith or mockers in a believers guise?

 

[Absolutely]

It also plainly states this is the first resurrection and those who are not in the first resurrection will suffer the second death.

6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them,
but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Rev 20

A small point, which suggests a deeper problem. Revelations says the first resurrection people will not suffer the
the second death, nothing more ie. they have eternal life.

Suggesting those not in this first resurrection will be thrown into the lake of fire, is simply not there, and it is a dangerous
thing to say and add to the book of revelation, for the very reason warnings are given.

I fear for those who so quickly want to interpret that which is not there to be changed, added to or taken away from.
Why is there so little fear of a God who kills those who miss-use His Holy instruments?
Are they really people of faith or mockers in a believers guise?

Rev 20 only mentions those beheaded by antichrist.
It says nothing of the first resurrection of Jesus and the patriarchs before the nt.
So first resurrection is not after the 7yr gt..
Rev 20 points to the entire 4 part 1st resurrection,and that those in thrones are part of it.
Rev 20 CANNOT be a post trib resurrection,it merely includes those beheaded into that 1st resurrection group.
Jesus was the first,along with paradise,then the pretrib dead in Christ with the living,then the Jews and stragglers of rev 14.
4 part harvest laid out by leviticus and ruth.
Once it all gets laid out,it fits.

Very few factor in the bride/groom/wedding/and feast.
It all happens in heaven.

 

[Absolutely]

And how was time established and marked off <----the EVENING and the MORNING was the 1st day

When is the last day <----When the 7th trump begins to sound TIME shall be NO MORE......

Of course this gets explained away and or flat denied....oh well!!!!

I think the vial judgements come after the 7th trumpet.
So time continues

 

[dcontroversal]

I think the vial judgements come after the 7th trumpet.
So time continues

Obviously it is a generic application of TIME indicating the LAST DAY in the following sense....

a. For the saved time shall be no more as we are transformed into our eternal state
b. For the Kingdoms of the world time has run out as JESUS seizes control of them as LORD
c. For the Beast and his KINGDOM time has run out because it is now time for wrath

When the 7th trump begins to sound it sates clearly TIME SHALL BE NO MORE