Faith ALONE, where is it?

[Roughsoul1991]

Ephesians 1
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

After believing on the gospel of Jesus Christ for sin, one is sealed by the Holy Spirit for the redemption which is the redemption of the body (see also Romans 8:23). Belief in the gospel for sin is a one time thing that guarantees your future. It's that simple. Change your mind and believe.

I forgot to add...no works were involved on man's part.

Keep in mind a seal was a mark. In this case the mark of the Spirit. A promise of what is to come to help and encourage the buyer (believer) to follow through with this earnest agreement. A downpayment of the earnest agreement until the day of redemption.

Checkout what in verse 10 what earnest means and then see how that relates to UNTIL the redemption of the purchased possession.

A earnest agreement as you will see has a role held to both participating parties.

 

[Locutus]

The OP has proven himself to be outside the faith if he is resting in his own righteousness for salvation.

How so - Issa is asking a valid question in light of the Calvinism threads and "seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses" of Calvinites.

I thought you were a baptist not a chaptist...

 

[Johnny_B]

The OP has proven himself to be outside the faith if he is resting in his own righteousness for salvation.

Amen!!! All of the so-called christians world does that, it's THEIR faith over God's grace and mercy.

 

[Spokenpassage]

I'll attempt to help, if he is honestly looking for an answer.

James is saying our works justify our faith as being genuine, just as the examples he have shown that their works justified them as being in the faith.

As the Luther once stated, "We are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone."

So where is sola fide in Scriptures? It is everywhere, here is one:

Romans 1:17

For in [the gospel] the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Other translation even say "faith to faith." Either the case, it means faith from the beginning to the end.

 

[Johnny_B]

Ephesians 1
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

After believing on the gospel of Jesus Christ for sin, one is sealed by the Holy Spirit for the redemption which is the redemption of the body (see also Romans 8:23). Belief in the gospel for sin is a one time thing that guarantees your future. It's that simple. Change your mind and believe.

I forgot to add...no works were involved on man's part.

Interesting how the KJV translates 13, here's how the NKJV translates it. "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,"

The ESV "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,"

The NIV "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,"

The NKJV adds "trusted", which it did not need to do, but it really doesn't make a difference, "In Him you also trusted,". The ESV has it, "In Him you also," the NIV "you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth". We were already in Christ when you heard the message of truth, Gospel of salvation. Then as stated above, when you believed you were sealed with the promised Spirit.

The only works we do, are those, "which God prepared beforehand" and "that we should walk in them", not strive or any other mode of human works, we simply walk in them. Ephesians 2:10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

The one time things that you are talking about is our justification, which is by faith alone, no works to get that justification, but there are fruits or works that God has prepared for us, as a result of that justification. Which is our on going faith.

Which Peter describes in II Peter 1:5-11 "For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.9 For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.11 For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

Galatians 5:13-14 “For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Philippians 4:8-9 "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.9 What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me—practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you."

I Thessalonians 4:8-10 "Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you.9 Now concerning brotherly love you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love one another, 10 for that indeed is what you are doing to all the brothers throughout Macedonia. But we urge you, brothers, to do this more and more,"

II Thessalonians 1:3-4 "We ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers, as is right, because your faith is growing abundantly, and the love of every one of you for one another is increasing. 4 Therefore we ourselves boast about you in the churches of God for your steadfastness and faith in all your persecutions and in the afflictions that you are enduring."


Hebrews 13:1-3 "Let brotherly love continue.2 Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.3 Remember those who are in prison, as though in prison with them, and those who are mistreated, since you also are in the body."

I Peter 1:20-23 "He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.22 Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart, 23 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;"

I John 3:11-15 "For this is the message that you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. 12 We should not be like Cain, who was of the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own deeds were evil and his brother's righteous. 13 Do not be surprised, brothers, that the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death. 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."

The fruit of being born again, saved by grace, justified by faith is brotherly love, love for one another, that God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them, Peter's list.

 

[trofimus]

So I tried to find where in the bible is FAITH ALONE mentioned, and the only result on the esword is this (ironically):

Jas_2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Please, begin to use a better software. The one you are using for searching the Bible seems to be seriously broken. Even common google will give you better results.

Google Sola Fide proofs and you will get everything possible.

 

[Issachar92]

All have sinned,and come short of the glory of God.

There is none that does good,no,not one.

Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

In the Old Testament they could not receive the Spirit,so they could not live up to the spiritual laws perfectly,love God,and love people,moral laws,so God had them do physical ordinances until Jesus came.

When Jesus came and spiritual salvation was available,people could only have faith alone,for they did not have the Spirit,and that is all they could do is have faith alone,and not saved by works,for without the Spirit their works would never measure up.

When we confess Christ it is faith alone,and not saved by works,because all we can do is have faith alone,and our works of the flesh does not measure up,and nobody could live up to the spiritual laws perfectly without the Spirit.

When we confess Christ we have not received the Spirit yet,so it is faith alone,and not saved by works.

After we receive the Spirit then it is a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,for these works are not of the flesh,not self righteous,not of ourselves,but by the Spirit.

Faith alone,not saved by works,when we confess Christ.

A person is justified by works and not faith alone,after receiving the Spirit.

2 different situations.One we are in the flesh when we confess Christ,faith alone,not saved by works,and one we are in the Spirit,a person is justified by works and not faith alone.

Paul said be led of the Spirit and abstain from sin,and if you do not help the poor and needy,but covet after money,then you have erred from the faith.

James said if a person says depart in peace to people,but do not help them with their needs,then they do not have faith.

Paul and James says the same thing,allow the Spirit to lead you and have works,or else you do not have faith.

People should understand when Paul is talking according to someone in the flesh,and in the Spirit.

When someone initially confesses Christ they are in the flesh,so all they can do is have faith,and not saved by works,because of the position they are in being in the flesh.

When someone receives the Spirit after they confess Christ they are spiritual,so a person is justified by works and not faith alone,because these works are not of the flesh but of the Spirit.

James is saying be led of the Spirit,and do what God wants you to do,for if we do not do what God wants us to do,then we are rebellious,then how do we have faith,and the Bible says grieve not the Spirit,and quench not the Spirit.

Paul said we do not void out the law through faith,but we establish it,and the law is spiritual,holy,just,and good,love God,and love people,and abstain from fleshy lusts.

Faith alone,not saved by works,when a person initially confesses Christ.

A person is justified by works and not faith alone,after they receive the Spirit.

Feel free to close this thread. This man just nailed it in. +Rep

 

[psalm6819]

Wrong......

 

[mailmandan]

So I tried to find where in the bible is FAITH ALONE mentioned, and the only result on the esword is this (ironically):

Jas_2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

What James means by faith "alone" is an empty profession of faith that remains "alone" (barren of works). This is not genuine faith, but a dead faith. *In James 2:14, we read of one who says-claims he has faith but has no works (to back up his claim). This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" He is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

Well what about the infamous often quoted ephesians 2:8-9?

Hmm. Contradiction? Different dispensation? OR...... OR: Could it be that the WORKS mentioned in ephesians 2:8-9 are religious ceremonies, rituals, circumcisions, diverse washings etc.

No contradiction at all. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). Works are not limited to the ceremonial aspect of the law.

In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses (Leviticus 19:18).

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Please tell me, which good works could a Christian accomplish that are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18). Are there any genuine good works that Christians do which fall outside of loving God and our neighbor as ourself? So it's not saved by "these" works and just not "those" works.

I say yes, it makes sense, see now we dont have to contradict the overwhelming call of the book of acts and the gospels where its stated: Repent(something we do) and believe the gospel. (believe, trust).

We change our mind when we repent and believe the gospel. It's not faith alone in the sense that we believe the gospel but never repented. We must first change our mind before we can believe the gospel. Two sides to the same coin.

Now is this simple or what? Dont need to throw out James or say its to tribulation saints or whatever.

Don't need to throw out Paul and say that we are saved by works either.

I hope atleast someone sees this, while I know its probably an unpopular message these days.
what message? Well repent and believe the gospel of course, I know im preaching to the choir since most people here are saved, but it does worry me that some christians have this faith alone thing driven into them to a point where they are saying preaching repentance is heresy (Steven anderson does this for example to drop a name).

Repentance is not heresy and some people reverse the order of repentance and faith and turn repent into "completely stop sinning after we believe" as a work for salvation. That is heresy.

PS And as always, if someone can show me the infamous sola fide from scripture, i'll change my mind in an instant. I just dont know how you can do away with the statement in James tho.

The Bible clearly teaches in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications" (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8 etc..). You don't need to add the word "alone" next to belief/faith in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words belief/faith "stand alone" in these many passages of scripture in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages of scripture say faith "plus something else/plus works? NO! So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST alone. The moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ alone for salvation, we are saved.

 

[Issachar92]

The OP has proven himself to be outside the faith if he is resting in his own righteousness for salvation.

You would probably rebuke the apostles for resting in their own righteousness too.
You got starched in the other thread and now you come by here with false accusations.
Consider yourself blocked. You're the type of dude to bark and bark, get punched once and run and cower like a chihuahua. hahaha.

Now you can proceed to quote all the bible verses about loving your brother in Christ, and how if we have no love we got nothing etc etc. Its always the same dance with you, you start beef, but cant finish it. What was it about condemning others in Christ? hm

 

[mailmandan]

Keep in mind a seal was a mark. In this case the mark of the Spirit. A promise of what is to come to help and encourage the buyer (believer) to follow through with this earnest agreement. A downpayment of the earnest agreement until the day of redemption.

Checkout what in verse 10 what earnest means and then see how that relates to UNTIL the redemption of the purchased possession.

A earnest agreement as you will see has a role held to both participating parties.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words <1,,728,arrabon> originally, "earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser and forfeited if the purchase was not completed, was probably a Phoenician word, introduced into Greece. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; in Ephesians 1:14; 4:30 particularly of their eternal inheritance.

2 Corinthians 1:21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Praise God!

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed unto/for the day of redemption.

 

[mailmandan]

Jas 2:18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”

We need to be careful how James is read - all he is really saying is that my "works" are a proof of my faith.

Jas 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,

Jas 2:16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?

Amen! James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

 

[Grace777x70]

True faith will have a corresponding action of some kind.

Let's look at what James says about faith & it's corresponding "work" in relation to having eternal life now and forever because we heard the message of Christ and believed on Him - then we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Eph. 1:13

It is very interesting that in James's examples of faith "being made alive" by a work or a corresponding action. Both Rahab and Abraham each did a one time corresponding action to demonstrate their faith.

Abraham believed God and offered up Isaac on the alter. Rahab received the spies. Both one time events in their life - God calls this faith in action.


James 2:20-25 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

[SUP]21 [/SUP] Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

[SUP]22[/SUP]You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

[SUP]23 [/SUP] and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

Paul and James completely go together and do not cancel each other out nor contradict the basic truth of believing in Christ brings eternal life when we hear the true message of Christ's work and that we have the forgiveness of sins.

We do the very same thing when we hear the message of Christ and we believe and then God seals us with the Holy Spirit. This is our faith with a corresponding action or a "work".

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Jesus said to do the work of God was to believe in the Son.

Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10[/SUP]for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

This is faith with corresponding action - or a work. This is how we are saved by grace through faith just like Paul said.

James talk about "faith" and "works" is in relation to helping out our fellow man that is in need. Our helping others out in need shows our faith in action in relation to what man can see on this earth.

 

[mailmandan]

A person is justified by works and not faith alone, after they receive the Spirit.

James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous. James, however is using the term to describe those who would prove the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous" not accounted as righteous.

Matthew 12:37 - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (along with our works) reveal the state of our hearts. Words will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of grace and righteousness.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*

 

[MadebyHim]

Someday Jesus may just slam on the brakes, then the wheels on this bus will stop rolling.

 

[dcontroversal]

You forgot Jesus.

Exactly....more works based self saving rigmarole

 

[limey410]

Exactly....more works based self saving rigmarole

They're pretty good at it. Trust issues.

 

[mailmandan]

Exactly....more works based self saving rigmarole

Amen! The death, burial and resurrection of Christ was not simply something that needed to happen in order to merely make it "possible" for us to save ourselves by works. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed.

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen! The death, burial and resurrection of Christ was not simply something that needed to happen in order to merely make it "possible" for us to save ourselves by works. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed.

It blows my mind...how many think they need to embellish what Christ has done....it is a slap to his face for them to even suggest that they need to HELP JESUS facilitate something that has already been completed....exactly why the number that comes before his throne boasting in their works is PLENTEOUS IN NUMBER...most "religions" push a works based false ideology.....they will all be cast from his presence because they are just like thieves who attempt to steal the glory as they boast is in what they have done instead of what Christ has done!

 

[FreeNChrist]

It's like some don't seem to know that when we speak of faith, we are speaking of faith in Jesus Christ. It's the object of our faith, Jesus, who alone saves and keeps us.