Faith ALONE, where is it?

[Issachar92]

So I tried to find where in the bible is FAITH ALONE mentioned, and the only result on the esword is this (ironically):

Jas_2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Well what about the infamous often quoted ephesians 2:8-9?

Hmm. Contradiction? Different dispensation? OR...... OR: Could it be that the WORKS mentioned in ephesians 2:8-9 are religious ceremonies, rituals, circumcisions, diverse washings etc.

I say yes, it makes sense, see now we dont have to contradict the overwhelming call of the book of acts and the gospels where its stated: Repent(something we do) and believe the gospel. (believe, trust).

Now is this simple or what? Dont need to throw out James or say its to tribulation saints or whatever.

I hope atleast someone sees this, while I know its probably an unpopular message these days.
what message? Well repent and believe the gospel of course, I know im preaching to the choir since most people here are saved, but it does worry me that some christians have this faith alone thing driven into them to a point where they are saying preaching repentance is heresy (Steven anderson does this for example to drop a name).


PS And as always, if someone can show me the infamous sola fide from scripture, i'll change my mind in an instant. I just dont know how you can do away with the statement in James tho.

 

[dcontroversal]

The just shall live by faith.

Abraham believed God (faith) and it was put to his account for righteousness.

He that believes (faith) on the SON is having everlasting life.

If you believe (have faith) with your mind (heart) and confess with your mouth thou shalt be saved.

The just shall live by his faith.

PAUL-->ROMANS--> MAN justified before GOD by faith and faith alone
JAMES-->JAMES--> A man's invisible faith that justifies before GOD void of works SEEN by men based upon our works<--SHOW ME YOUR FAITH

 

[Locutus]

Jas 2:18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”

We need to be careful how James is read - all he is really saying is that my "works" are a proof of my faith.

Jas 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,

Jas 2:16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?

 

[Laish]

So I tried to find where in the bible is FAITH ALONE mentioned, and the only result on the esword is this (ironically):

Jas_2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Well what about the infamous often quoted ephesians 2:8-9?

Hmm. Contradiction? Different dispensation? OR...... OR: Could it be that the WORKS mentioned in ephesians 2:8-9 are religious ceremonies, rituals, circumcisions, diverse washings etc.

I say yes, it makes sense, see now we dont have to contradict the overwhelming call of the book of acts and the gospels where its stated: Repent(something we do) and believe the gospel. (believe, trust).

Now is this simple or what? Dont need to throw out James or say its to tribulation saints or whatever.

I hope atleast someone sees this, while I know its probably an unpopular message these days.
what message? Well repent and believe the gospel of course, I know im preaching to the choir since most people here are saved, but it does worry me that some christians have this faith alone thing driven into them to a point where they are saying preaching repentance is heresy (Steven anderson does this for example to drop a name).


PS And as always, if someone can show me the infamous sola fide from scripture, i'll change my mind in an instant. I just dont know how you can do away with the statement in James tho.

ok I have a question or two concerning faith and works. Say a man has true faith dose his desire to do good works save him or must he do good works to be saved?
I have believed that works ( like dcontroversal stated ) was a outward appearance of faith.
If it is faith plus works and and the same man desiring to do good misses the mark are his works counted as good ?
If not dose that not set up some kind of a celestial scorecard or the like ? Now if it was his desire to do good is all
that counts . Would that not mean its Faith that saves not works ?
Just looking for your perspective.
I hope that makes sense.
Blessings
Bill

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

So I tried to find where in the bible is FAITH ALONE mentioned, and the only result on the esword is this (ironically):

Jas_2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Well what about the infamous often quoted ephesians 2:8-9?

Hmm. Contradiction? Different dispensation? OR...... OR: Could it be that the WORKS mentioned in ephesians 2:8-9 are religious ceremonies, rituals, circumcisions, diverse washings etc.

I say yes, it makes sense, see now we dont have to contradict the overwhelming call of the book of acts and the gospels where its stated: Repent(something we do) and believe the gospel. (believe, trust).

Now is this simple or what? Dont need to throw out James or say its to tribulation saints or whatever.

I hope atleast someone sees this, while I know its probably an unpopular message these days.
what message? Well repent and believe the gospel of course, I know im preaching to the choir since most people here are saved, but it does worry me that some christians have this faith alone thing driven into them to a point where they are saying preaching repentance is heresy (Steven anderson does this for example to drop a name).


PS And as always, if someone can show me the infamous sola fide from scripture, i'll change my mind in an instant. I just dont know how you can do away with the statement in James tho.

The references deserve more context. Below I show what you quoted(in bold) with more context.

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. -James 2:14-18


For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. -Eph 2:8-10


Faith that doesn't result in fruits is worthless. If we have God dwelling within, He ought to shine through us...resulting in good deeds/charity/fruits.

For some Christians, the above paragraph causes trouble because they have been wrongly taught that all works done are filthy rags, which is taking a passage of Isaiah 64(referring to rebellious Israelites) out of context. The fruits of the spirit(Gal 5:22-23) are not rotten fruit. God didn't prepare garbage or us to do, He prepared good works.

I do believe we will be rewarded based on our obedience/fruits. I do believe good deeds can increase and strengthen our faith. Faith, though, through grace, is what gets the ball rolling and sustains.

it does worry me that some christians have this faith alone thing driven into them to a point where they are saying preaching repentance is heresy I haven't encountered this anywhere I have gone to church. We should always be under self examination and regular repentance should be a result.

 

[limey410]

So I tried to find where in the bible is FAITH ALONE mentioned, and the only result on the esword is this (ironically):

Jas_2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Well what about the infamous often quoted ephesians 2:8-9?

Hmm. Contradiction? Different dispensation? OR...... OR: Could it be that the WORKS mentioned in ephesians 2:8-9 are religious ceremonies, rituals, circumcisions, diverse washings etc.

I say yes, it makes sense, see now we dont have to contradict the overwhelming call of the book of acts and the gospels where its stated: Repent(something we do) and believe the gospel. (believe, trust).

Now is this simple or what? Dont need to throw out James or say its to tribulation saints or whatever.






I hope atleast someone sees this, while I know its probably an unpopular message these days.
what message? Well repent and believe the gospel of course, I know im preaching to the choir since most people here are saved, but it does worry me that some christians have this faith alone thing driven into them to a point where they are saying preaching repentance is heresy (Steven anderson does this for example to drop a name).


PS And as always, if someone can show me the infamous sola fide from scripture, i'll change my mind in an instant. I just dont know how you can do away with the statement in James tho.

There are many other verses that do, in fact, teach salvation by faith alone. Any verse that ascribes salvation to faith/belief, with no other requirement mentioned, is a declaration that salvation is by faith alone. John 3:16 declares that salvation is given to “whoever believes in Him.” Acts 16:31 proclaims, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.” Ephesians 2:8 says, “For by grace you have been saved through faith.” See also Romans 3:28; 4:5; 5:1; Galatians 2:16; 3:24; Ephesians 1:13; and Philippians 3:9. Many other verses could be referenced in addition to these.

My point is just the absence of those two words being used in conjunction with each other doesn't derail the truth in teaching. Essentially you are trying to prove your bias based on two words. That truly doesn't make sense.

 

[MattforJesus]

All have sinned,and come short of the glory of God.

There is none that does good,no,not one.

Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

In the Old Testament they could not receive the Spirit,so they could not live up to the spiritual laws perfectly,love God,and love people,moral laws,so God had them do physical ordinances until Jesus came.

When Jesus came and spiritual salvation was available,people could only have faith alone,for they did not have the Spirit,and that is all they could do is have faith alone,and not saved by works,for without the Spirit their works would never measure up.

When we confess Christ it is faith alone,and not saved by works,because all we can do is have faith alone,and our works of the flesh does not measure up,and nobody could live up to the spiritual laws perfectly without the Spirit.

When we confess Christ we have not received the Spirit yet,so it is faith alone,and not saved by works.

After we receive the Spirit then it is a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,for these works are not of the flesh,not self righteous,not of ourselves,but by the Spirit.

Faith alone,not saved by works,when we confess Christ.

A person is justified by works and not faith alone,after receiving the Spirit.

2 different situations.One we are in the flesh when we confess Christ,faith alone,not saved by works,and one we are in the Spirit,a person is justified by works and not faith alone.

Paul said be led of the Spirit and abstain from sin,and if you do not help the poor and needy,but covet after money,then you have erred from the faith.

James said if a person says depart in peace to people,but do not help them with their needs,then they do not have faith.

Paul and James says the same thing,allow the Spirit to lead you and have works,or else you do not have faith.

People should understand when Paul is talking according to someone in the flesh,and in the Spirit.

When someone initially confesses Christ they are in the flesh,so all they can do is have faith,and not saved by works,because of the position they are in being in the flesh.

When someone receives the Spirit after they confess Christ they are spiritual,so a person is justified by works and not faith alone,because these works are not of the flesh but of the Spirit.

James is saying be led of the Spirit,and do what God wants you to do,for if we do not do what God wants us to do,then we are rebellious,then how do we have faith,and the Bible says grieve not the Spirit,and quench not the Spirit.

Paul said we do not void out the law through faith,but we establish it,and the law is spiritual,holy,just,and good,love God,and love people,and abstain from fleshy lusts.

Faith alone,not saved by works,when a person initially confesses Christ.

A person is justified by works and not faith alone,after they receive the Spirit.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

All have sinned,and come short of the glory of God.

There is none that does good,no,not one.

Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

In the Old Testament they could not receive the Spirit,so they could not live up to the spiritual laws perfectly,love God,and love people,moral laws,so God had them do physical ordinances until Jesus came.

When Jesus came and spiritual salvation was available,people could only have faith alone,for they did not have the Spirit,and that is all they could do is have faith alone,and not saved by works,for without the Spirit their works would never measure up.

When we confess Christ it is faith alone,and not saved by works,because all we can do is have faith alone,and our works of the flesh does not measure up,and nobody could live up to the spiritual laws perfectly without the Spirit.

When we confess Christ we have not received the Spirit yet,so it is faith alone,and not saved by works.

After we receive the Spirit then it is a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,for these works are not of the flesh,not self righteous,not of ourselves,but by the Spirit.

Faith alone,not saved by works,when we confess Christ.

A person is justified by works and not faith alone,after receiving the Spirit.

2 different situations.One we are in the flesh when we confess Christ,faith alone,not saved by works,and one we are in the Spirit,a person is justified by works and not faith alone.

Paul said be led of the Spirit and abstain from sin,and if you do not help the poor and needy,but covet after money,then you have erred from the faith.

James said if a person says depart in peace to people,but do not help them with their needs,then they do not have faith.

Paul and James says the same thing,allow the Spirit to lead you and have works,or else you do not have faith.

People should understand when Paul is talking according to someone in the flesh,and in the Spirit.

When someone initially confesses Christ they are in the flesh,so all they can do is have faith,and not saved by works,because of the position they are in being in the flesh.

When someone receives the Spirit after they confess Christ they are spiritual,so a person is justified by works and not faith alone,because these works are not of the flesh but of the Spirit.

James is saying be led of the Spirit,and do what God wants you to do,for if we do not do what God wants us to do,then we are rebellious,then how do we have faith,and the Bible says grieve not the Spirit,and quench not the Spirit.

Paul said we do not void out the law through faith,but we establish it,and the law is spiritual,holy,just,and good,love God,and love people,and abstain from fleshy lusts.

Faith alone,not saved by works,when a person initially confesses Christ.

A person is justified by works and not faith alone,after they receive the Spirit.

When we are spiritually regenerated and producing charity/deed/fruits because of the Holy Spirit, we aren't producing filthy rags.

Eph 2:10. He prepared GOOD WORKS for us to do.

Gal 5:22-23. He wants us to bear fruits...not trash, garbage, rotten fruit.

The filthy rags of Isaiah 64 is a reference to a rebellious Israel. See my post above. I just pointed out the "filthy rags" misquote shortly before you posted.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

ok I have a question or two concerning faith and works. Say a man has true faith dose his desire to do good works save him or must he do good works to be saved?
I have believed that works ( like dcontroversal stated ) was a outward appearance of faith.
If it is faith plus works and and the same man desiring to do good misses the mark are his works counted as good ?
If not dose that not set up some kind of a celestial scorecard or the like ? Now if it was his desire to do good is all
that counts . Would that not mean its Faith that saves not works ?
Just looking for your perspective.
I hope that makes sense.
Blessings
Bill

Interesting observation. From scripture i look at faith and see that a living faith will be an active faith. And it wont be mans work being done because i see faith as surrender and obedience to the will of God. So basically we are saying okay God i need you and trust you. And through this surrender we are more prone to be led by the Spirit and abide by Gods words, out of obedience we do good works.

If no action is noticeable then by observation of man it will look as if their faith is only belief but no surrender or obedience. Even the demons believe and fear God but showing belief is the first step to a living faith, a faithful servent, a faith that endures onto the end.

 

[Yahshua]

All have sinned,and come short of the glory of God.

There is none that does good,no,not one.

Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

In the Old Testament they could not receive the Spirit,so they could not live up to the spiritual laws perfectly,love God,and love people,moral laws,so God had them do physical ordinances until Jesus came.

When Jesus came and spiritual salvation was available,people could only have faith alone,for they did not have the Spirit,and that is all they could do is have faith alone,and not saved by works,for without the Spirit their works would never measure up.

When we confess Christ it is faith alone,and not saved by works,because all we can do is have faith alone,and our works of the flesh does not measure up,and nobody could live up to the spiritual laws perfectly without the Spirit.

When we confess Christ we have not received the Spirit yet,so it is faith alone,and not saved by works.

After we receive the Spirit then it is a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,for these works are not of the flesh,not self righteous,not of ourselves,but by the Spirit.

Faith alone,not saved by works,when we confess Christ.

A person is justified by works and not faith alone,after receiving the Spirit.

2 different situations.One we are in the flesh when we confess Christ,faith alone,not saved by works,and one we are in the Spirit,a person is justified by works and not faith alone.

Paul said be led of the Spirit and abstain from sin,and if you do not help the poor and needy,but covet after money,then you have erred from the faith.

James said if a person says depart in peace to people,but do not help them with their needs,then they do not have faith.

Paul and James says the same thing,allow the Spirit to lead you and have works,or else you do not have faith.

People should understand when Paul is talking according to someone in the flesh,and in the Spirit.

When someone initially confesses Christ they are in the flesh,so all they can do is have faith,and not saved by works,because of the position they are in being in the flesh.

When someone receives the Spirit after they confess Christ they are spiritual,so a person is justified by works and not faith alone,because these works are not of the flesh but of the Spirit.

James is saying be led of the Spirit,and do what God wants you to do,for if we do not do what God wants us to do,then we are rebellious,then how do we have faith,and the Bible says grieve not the Spirit,and quench not the Spirit.

Paul said we do not void out the law through faith,but we establish it,and the law is spiritual,holy,just,and good,love God,and love people,and abstain from fleshy lusts.

Faith alone,not saved by works,when a person initially confesses Christ.

A person is justified by works and not faith alone,after they receive the Spirit.

*thumbs up*

1. Person commits crime (sin)
2. Person guilty of crime (unrighteous)
3. Person condemned for crime (death sentence)
4. Person begs for mercy (confession by faith in the judge)
5. Person's record is expunged (forgiven; cleared; saved; a work only the judge can do)
6. Person is told not to commit crime again (judge's command to person)
7. Person does not commit crime again (person's work to do; proves their faith & forgiveness was justified)

 

[Yahshua]

After faith and forgiveness...

Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good works,

Hebrews 12:4
In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.

Hebrews 12:14
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord

Hebrews 13:16
And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

Hebrews 13:21
[May the God of peace] equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[limey410]

*thumbs up*

1. Person commits crime (sin)
2. Person guilty of crime (unrighteous)
3. Person condemned for crime (death sentence)
4. Person begs for mercy (confession by faith in the judge)
5. Person's record is expunged (forgiven; cleared; saved; a work only the judge can do)
6. Person is told not to commit crime again (judge's command to person)
7. Person does not commit crime again (person's work to do; proves their faith & forgiveness was justified)

You forgot Jesus.

 

[Yahshua]

You forgot Jesus.

John 5:22
Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,

^Judge. I think you might not have recognized him in the example.

 

[limey410]

John 5:22
Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,

^Judge. I think you might not have recognized him in the example.

I don't recognize my Jesus in your statement at all. Because He bore the judgement by His sacrifice.

 

[Yahshua]

I don't recognize my Jesus in your statement at all. Because He bore the judgement by His sacrifice.

You don't recognize your Jesus in John 5:22?

 

[MattforJesus]

Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,and God will judge the world by the man Christ Jesus,for He obtained access to heaven,so no one has an excuse why they cannot make it,for the Spirit is available to us that was the power for the man Christ Jesus to overcome the world.

The Bible says the saints shall judge the world,which they obtained access to heaven,so the world has no excuse why they cannot make it.

 

[John146]

So I tried to find where in the bible is FAITH ALONE mentioned, and the only result on the esword is this (ironically):

Jas_2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Well what about the infamous often quoted ephesians 2:8-9?

Hmm. Contradiction? Different dispensation? OR...... OR: Could it be that the WORKS mentioned in ephesians 2:8-9 are religious ceremonies, rituals, circumcisions, diverse washings etc.

I say yes, it makes sense, see now we dont have to contradict the overwhelming call of the book of acts and the gospels where its stated: Repent(something we do) and believe the gospel. (believe, trust).

Now is this simple or what? Dont need to throw out James or say its to tribulation saints or whatever.

I hope atleast someone sees this, while I know its probably an unpopular message these days.
what message? Well repent and believe the gospel of course, I know im preaching to the choir since most people here are saved, but it does worry me that some christians have this faith alone thing driven into them to a point where they are saying preaching repentance is heresy (Steven anderson does this for example to drop a name).


PS And as always, if someone can show me the infamous sola fide from scripture, i'll change my mind in an instant. I just dont know how you can do away with the statement in James tho.

Ephesians 1
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

After believing on the gospel of Jesus Christ for sin, one is sealed by the Holy Spirit for the redemption which is the redemption of the body (see also Romans 8:23). Belief in the gospel for sin is a one time thing that guarantees your future. It's that simple. Change your mind and believe.

I forgot to add...no works were involved on man's part.

 

[Johnny_B]

So I tried to find where in the bible is FAITH ALONE mentioned, and the only result on the esword is this (ironically):

Jas_2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Well what about the infamous often quoted ephesians 2:8-9?

Hmm. Contradiction? Different dispensation? OR...... OR: Could it be that the WORKS mentioned in ephesians 2:8-9 are religious ceremonies, rituals, circumcisions, diverse washings etc.

I say yes, it makes sense, see now we dont have to contradict the overwhelming call of the book of acts and the gospels where its stated: Repent(something we do) and believe the gospel. (believe, trust).

Now is this simple or what? Dont need to throw out James or say its to tribulation saints or whatever.

I hope atleast someone sees this, while I know its probably an unpopular message these days.
what message? Well repent and believe the gospel of course, I know im preaching to the choir since most people here are saved, but it does worry me that some christians have this faith alone thing driven into them to a point where they are saying preaching repentance is heresy (Steven anderson does this for example to drop a name).


PS And as always, if someone can show me the infamous sola fide from scripture, i'll change my mind in an instant. I just dont know how you can do away with the statement in James tho.

Here is what James is talking about 2 Peter1:5-9 "For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.9 For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins."

It's the fruit of faith. There is no where in the Bible. that says, faith alone, it's a doctrine from the Scriptures. But let me ask you this, what is your understanding of what is by faith alone?

 

[Spokenpassage]

The OP has proven himself to be outside the faith if he is resting in his own righteousness for salvation.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

We hear, believe,repent, and confess is faith before the Spirit.

These 4 are part of faith and notice each word is a verb a action that takes place when we willingly respond to actually hearing

Definition of hear
transitive verb
1
: to perceive or become aware of by the ear

Definition of believe
believed; believing
intransitive verb
1
a : to have a firm religious faith

Definition of repent
intransitive verb
1
: to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life.

Definition of confess
transitive verb
1
: to tell or make known (as something wrong or damaging to oneself) : admit he confessed his guilt
2
a : to acknowledge (sin) to God

Then the Spirit comes in and we get baptized and live in Obedience. So now that the Spirit lives within we are expected to follow and be led by the Spirit.

Baptize verb
to cleanse spiritually; initiate or dedicate by purifying.

Obedience noun
the act or practice of obeying; dutiful or submissive compliance:

Romans 12:1-2New International Version (NIV)

A Living Sacrifice
12 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Romans 1:5New International Version (NIV)

5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from[a] faith for his name’s sake.

Romans 12:11-12Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

11 Do not lack diligence; be fervent in spirit; serve the Lord. 12 Rejoice in hope; be patient in affliction; be persistent in prayer.

Notice the first 4 are verbs that we do in faith to willfully respond to the gospel. We are held accountable to different steps in our walk of faith. And then to tie all them together is baptism and obedience to the gospel. Faith alone was a faith in action and not just belief. When we hear we choose to believe or not believe. Then once we believe we feel condemned to act or not act into repentance. Then we confess Jesus as Lord and savior. A true heart for God will act in all truthfulness.