everything is predestined?
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I wouldn't know, I'm not a "Calvi", so you keep fighting your imaginary enemies here, because you're too coward to seek out real self proclaiming Calvinist to "battle". You are delusional and as disrespectful as anyone I've ever met always accusing others with lies. Wicked. Is it because you don't have any actual reasons to attack me and others, so like the Democrats, you have to manufacture them? It's honestly sad that you can't actually engage in good faith with what is actually said.
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thats quite a conclusion …..
“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
Matthew 6:14-15 KJV
“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
Ezekiel 18:4 KJV
“Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin–; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
Exodus 32:32-33
But ….no one should ever learn what god actually said bout thier actions though they might think they have a choice between good and evil and then choose good and life by choosing Jesus as those lord
“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
…I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
Deuteronomy 30:15, 19
Man has a choice but we love to sin ……and even more we like to rule our own morality and we utterly hate humility
“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
Matthew 6:14-15 KJV
“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
Ezekiel 18:4 KJV
“Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin–; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
Exodus 32:32-33
But ….no one should ever learn what god actually said bout thier actions though they might think they have a choice between good and evil and then choose good and life by choosing Jesus as those lord
“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
…I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
Deuteronomy 30:15, 19
Man has a choice but we love to sin ……and even more we like to rule our own morality and we utterly hate humility
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The Lord Jesus Christ FIXED our depravity by reconciling the WORLD(ALL PEOPLE EVERYWHERE) to Himself.
Whosoever( All people EVERYWHERE) have equal privilege and equal opportunity to believe on His Gospel to them.
Yeah, I am the evil one for teaching, preaching and KNOWING that His Gospel is for ALL>anytime,anywhere.
Whosoever( All people EVERYWHERE) have equal privilege and equal opportunity to believe on His Gospel to them.
Yeah, I am the evil one for teaching, preaching and KNOWING that His Gospel is for ALL>anytime,anywhere.
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Scripture says His sheep hear His voice... and that those who do not hear do not belong to God.
Of course then we have people claiming everyone hears when that is not Biblical at all. Nor is it historically factual as you pretend.
And others who say God is a tyrannical monster if He acts unilaterally.
And that He is unfair if He reveals Himself to you in ways that are personal to you.
There are many here who seem to hate what Scripture actually says. I know you support them.
John 8 verses 43, 47, Acts 13 verse 48, Romans 8 verse 8, John 8 verse 43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message.” “Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.
Of course then we have people claiming everyone hears when that is not Biblical at all. Nor is it historically factual as you pretend.
And others who say God is a tyrannical monster if He acts unilaterally.
And that He is unfair if He reveals Himself to you in ways that are personal to you.
There are many here who seem to hate what Scripture actually says. I know you support them.
John 8 verses 43, 47, Acts 13 verse 48, Romans 8 verse 8, John 8 verse 43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message.” “Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.
Scripture says His sheep hear His voice... and that those who do not hear do not belong to God.
Of course then we have people claiming everyone hears when that is not Biblical at all. Nor is it historically factual as you pretend.
And others who say God is and tyrannical monster if He acts unilaterally.
And that He is unfair if He reveals Himself to you in ways that are personal to you.
There are many here who seem to hate what Scripture actually says. I know you support them.
John 8 verses 43, 47, Acts 13 verse 48, Romans 8 verse 8, John 8 verse 43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message.” “Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.
Of course then we have people claiming everyone hears when that is not Biblical at all. Nor is it historically factual as you pretend.
And others who say God is and tyrannical monster if He acts unilaterally.
And that He is unfair if He reveals Himself to you in ways that are personal to you.
There are many here who seem to hate what Scripture actually says. I know you support them.
John 8 verses 43, 47, Acts 13 verse 48, Romans 8 verse 8, John 8 verse 43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message.” “Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.
How are you so different and unique?
What in the world are you on about? Oh, you hate the Scripture verses given? You cannot accept what they say plain and simple, so you must turn them into some boogy man you can revile, and attempt to hide your hatred of the plain truth that way? Gosh. It's not working. But you prefer to keep pretending everyone throughout history has had equal opportunity to hear the gospel. And that depravity is no longer an issue simply because Jesus died on the cross. Do you throw whole Bible books out of your reading because you don't like what they say? As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.”
Then is He actually all knowing?
Is it possible for God through the creation of all things and through the limitations He places on them to know everything that will occur?
PaulThomson said:
God knows all things that are true. He does not know all nothings: all things that are not true. In the present, the future is comprised of nothings that are not presently true. In the present, God knows the future as it is in the present, which is that it does not yet exist to be known. God can calculate probabilities re the future. But probabilities are not certainties. God can devise intentions for the future. But He does not need to devise intentions for every detail of every anticipated future moment.
According to the Bible God is the creator of all things. If evil is a thing, does that make Him the Creator of all evil? So why would knowing all things have to include knowing even things that are not real? If I place some limitations on what my children can do, will I be able to predict everything my children will do? Why would God placing some limitations on creatures imply he must therefore be able to predict everything they will do?
God could choose to create a world in which every creature has no freedom to do anything other than what happens by an absolutely rigid law of cause and effect which He can predict flawlessly. God, having the power to do whatever He chooses to do, could do whatever He wants. However, the Bible does not describe God creating such a world.
Is it possible for God through the creation of all things and through the limitations He places on them to know everything that will occur?
PaulThomson said:
God knows all things that are true. He does not know all nothings: all things that are not true. In the present, the future is comprised of nothings that are not presently true. In the present, God knows the future as it is in the present, which is that it does not yet exist to be known. God can calculate probabilities re the future. But probabilities are not certainties. God can devise intentions for the future. But He does not need to devise intentions for every detail of every anticipated future moment.
According to the Bible God is the creator of all things. If evil is a thing, does that make Him the Creator of all evil? So why would knowing all things have to include knowing even things that are not real? If I place some limitations on what my children can do, will I be able to predict everything my children will do? Why would God placing some limitations on creatures imply he must therefore be able to predict everything they will do?
God could choose to create a world in which every creature has no freedom to do anything other than what happens by an absolutely rigid law of cause and effect which He can predict flawlessly. God, having the power to do whatever He chooses to do, could do whatever He wants. However, the Bible does not describe God creating such a world.
I understand what you believe. That's not what I'm asking about. I'm asking if what I proposed is possible. That's all. I'm not asking about whether God can predict the future or whether by force guide everything that transpires. I'm asking can God, having created everything, including everyone, and knowing exactly how he made each person, and the rest of creation, and by the limitations He places on the circumstances of their lives know how everything will occur in a person's life?
It's a simple yes or no.
It's a simple yes or no.
PaulThomson said:
God knows all things that are true. He does not know all nothings: all things that are not true. In the present, the future is comprised of nothings that are not presently true. In the present, God knows the future as it is in the present, which is that it does not yet exist to be known. God can calculate probabilities re the future. But probabilities are not certainties. God can devise intentions for the future. But He does not need to devise intentions for every detail of every anticipated future moment.
According to the Bible God is the creator of all things. If evil is a thing, does that make Him the Creator of all evil? So why would knowing all things have to include knowing even things that are not real? If I place some limitations on what my children can do, will I be able to predict everything my children will do? Why would God placing some limitations on creatures imply he must therefore be able to predict everything they will do?
God could choose to create a world in which every creature has no freedom to do anything other than what happens by an absolutely rigid law of cause and effect which He can predict flawlessly. God, having the power to do whatever He chooses to do, could do whatever He wants. However, the Bible does not describe God creating such a world.
I did answer.
"God could choose (i.e. it is possible for God) to create a world in which every creature has no freedom to do anything other than what happens by an absolutely rigid law of cause and effect which He can predict flawlessly. God, having the power to do whatever He chooses to do, could (i.e. it is possible for God to) do whatever He wants. However, the Bible does not describe God creating such a world."
So in this world, it is not possible, because the world has not been constructed in a way that makes it possible for God to do. God is able to limit his own options concerning what He can do. He makes up the rules of the game. But once the game is in progress, He operates with integrity and restrains His own actions to abide by His own rules. The rules of the present world, as revealed in scripture, preclude God from doing as you suggest.
God knows all things that are true. He does not know all nothings: all things that are not true. In the present, the future is comprised of nothings that are not presently true. In the present, God knows the future as it is in the present, which is that it does not yet exist to be known. God can calculate probabilities re the future. But probabilities are not certainties. God can devise intentions for the future. But He does not need to devise intentions for every detail of every anticipated future moment.
According to the Bible God is the creator of all things. If evil is a thing, does that make Him the Creator of all evil? So why would knowing all things have to include knowing even things that are not real? If I place some limitations on what my children can do, will I be able to predict everything my children will do? Why would God placing some limitations on creatures imply he must therefore be able to predict everything they will do?
God could choose to create a world in which every creature has no freedom to do anything other than what happens by an absolutely rigid law of cause and effect which He can predict flawlessly. God, having the power to do whatever He chooses to do, could do whatever He wants. However, the Bible does not describe God creating such a world.
I did answer.
"God could choose (i.e. it is possible for God) to create a world in which every creature has no freedom to do anything other than what happens by an absolutely rigid law of cause and effect which He can predict flawlessly. God, having the power to do whatever He chooses to do, could (i.e. it is possible for God to) do whatever He wants. However, the Bible does not describe God creating such a world."
So in this world, it is not possible, because the world has not been constructed in a way that makes it possible for God to do. God is able to limit his own options concerning what He can do. He makes up the rules of the game. But once the game is in progress, He operates with integrity and restrains His own actions to abide by His own rules. The rules of the present world, as revealed in scripture, preclude God from doing as you suggest.
No. You answered the question you thought I asked. You still haven't answered the question that I asked. And that's because you have some preconceptions.
I'll try by example. Suppose I created a toy that has a button, and every time the button is pushed the figurine dances. If someone pushes the button, what will happen? It will dance of course.
Now, what if God made people with hypothetical buttons? That is, instead of 1 button, He created them with millions of buttons. Some buttons perhaps get pressed by 1 or a very few set of interactions and circumstances. Some only by a specific set of circumstances or interactions, and some by a variety. Can God know the outcome of every interaction and circumstance by virtue of knowing exactly how He created the individual and the circumstances the individual lives under?
It's a thought exercise. Forget for the moment what you believe. Is this possible?
I'll try by example. Suppose I created a toy that has a button, and every time the button is pushed the figurine dances. If someone pushes the button, what will happen? It will dance of course.
Now, what if God made people with hypothetical buttons? That is, instead of 1 button, He created them with millions of buttons. Some buttons perhaps get pressed by 1 or a very few set of interactions and circumstances. Some only by a specific set of circumstances or interactions, and some by a variety. Can God know the outcome of every interaction and circumstance by virtue of knowing exactly how He created the individual and the circumstances the individual lives under?
It's a thought exercise. Forget for the moment what you believe. Is this possible?
False. God knowing the choices we will make, before we make them, does NOT mean God made us do them. This assertion is just so wrong it should be abandoned right away. This is the kind of false assertion is what the whole CDSC ideology is built on. These straw man assertions that you put forth like logical law are so easily destroyed by even a little scrutiny. Some call others arrogant for thinking they are Gods elect, but the idea that you get to just declare these things as truth as if you understand Gods ways, is the height of arrogance in my view.
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