everything is predestined?
- Thread starter WannabeWinner
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So in your view it is not plausible for Jesus to have been purposed before the creation of the world?
Weird.
Ephesians 1:4: "For he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless in his sight."
John 17:5: Jesus refers to the glory that he had with the Father "before the world existed."
John 17:24: The Father loving Jesus "before the foundation of the world".
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold
my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
1 Peter 1:20:
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
God knows all things that are true. He does not know all nothings: all things that are not true. In the present, the future is comprised of nothings that are not presently true. In the present, God knows the future as it is in the present, which is that it does not yet exist to be known. God can calculate probabilities re the future. But probabilities are not certainties. God can devise intentions for the future. But He does not need to devise intentions for every detail of every anticipated future moment.
My question was simply if the things I described were a possibility. Can you answer that question please?
“it does not seem plausible that God would foreknow the decadence of mankind and the flood and yet be grieved and repent of having created man.”
That’s not what I’m saying I’m sorry , it’s hard these days for me to word things correctly
look at these few examples as to this point because it will upset a couple people in the thread to just say it , but you’ll see my point if I just show you a couple examples and you’ll see my position about what your saying there regarding the “operation of creation “
“The LORD is in his holy temple, The LORD's throne is in heaven:
His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. The LORD trieth the righteous:
But the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.”
Psalm 11:4-5 KJV
“The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God.”
Psalm 14:2 KJV
“And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.”
Genesis 11:5-6 KJV
You can see the dynamic of what’s happening there Im sure and it doesn’t fit , in my opinion , with God having “ pre known “ and ore destined “ the individual actions of people which obviously influence the course of the world around them
“The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's:
But the earth hath he given to the children of men.”
Psalm 115:16 KJV
what im saying is God foreknows the outcome and ending of his plans , from the beginning . And his eyes behold mankind and thier deeds and one day
“For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
Romans 14:9-12 KJV
Sometimes God is shown as sorrowful a sweeping for mankind especially israel because of thier constant rebellion against his Will other times frustrated and at his end with the people angry and provoked to wrath ect none of that really seems pre planned that he would frustrate himself and make himself sorrowful by cause of them to do all they did in rebellion ect or if he o ew already why is he sorrowful ?
i suppose if I had a son and I knew he was rebellious I’d still want him to change and be sad because of it
having the knowledge THAT SOMEONE WILL DO SOMETHING BEFORE they do it, mean there is no free will or there is nothing that God doesn't know yet Ge will still allow it to happen?
Really? So God can't tell us what's going to happen in the future? There's a lot of pre-tribbers that might disagree with you here, not to mention the very nature of prophesy, or God telling us what's going to happen in the future. I get the argument you're making, but this isn't the God of scripture you're talking about. This is a god of your own design, not the only true God that tells us the end from the begining.
Gods plan for the world includes a bit of tinkering here and there by Him to see to it all goes as planned. As for me, stubbing a toe or breaking a leg, I see no cosmic reasons for those things.
God can be all places at all times. Realizing that should help the Calvinites understand how God knows who will be saved. No choosing before birth but knowing the result of ones life.
This is gonna be awkward but.... Your profile picture has a calvinist in it
And the argument doesnt hold water against calvinism, they would simply say the hospitals is also predestined, such as that some are healed and want to be healed etc.
Who are you caling a Calvinite, and why should I care what they understand or think?
Are you arguing against prophesy? You must serve a weak petty God that's just not sure. I serve the God of the Bible that knows the future.