Eternal torment VS Annihilation

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LW97 said:
I see you adressed Magenta... is SHE an Universalist?
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I consider @Magenta a friend and believer...However....I do not agree with her stance on this particular issue.....and neither do I agree with your view........the bible is clear and so is the word everlasting as applied consistently to LIFE and PUNISHMENT!!
 
Karraster said:
Abraham's bosom is rooted in Rabbinic Tradition. It helps to research those things, it really does if you want to better understand what this speech meant to the audience it was first delivered to. For instance, do you know what significance the water to wine miracle had, concerning the purification pots? Making mud out of dirt and spit on Sabbath for healing? Believe it or not mixing dirt and saliva was against their traditions but you won't find that in Torah. Anyway, here we are modern day trying to understand ancient writings many generations/cultures removed.
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Just remember that in the story or parable the time frame is pre-resserection, not post Armageddon.
 
LW97 said:
That is not the best argument. If he is destryed in misery, it is still misery. "Apollymi" can be translated many ways, just like "aionious". While I believe "eternal"/"everlasting" IS a decent translation im Matthew 25:41-46, if we read Jude 7... are the cities still burnings milleniums later?
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You should check your scripture first, as the word "punishment" in Jude 7 is the Greek word "dike" (dee-kay) and not apollumi, apoleia or olethros. You assumed that because the word "punishment" was used that it was from the same Greek words as previously mentioned. Dike is completely different word translated as "punishment," as revealed below:

Strong's Concordance
diké: right (as self-evident), justice (the principle, a decision or its execution)
Original Word: δίκη, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: diké
Phonetic Spelling: (dee'-kay)
Definition: right (as self-evident), justice (the principle, a decision or its execution)
Usage: (a) (originally: custom, usage) right, justice, (b) process of law, judicial hearing, (c) execution of sentence, punishment, penalty, (d) justice, vengeance.

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 1349 díkē – properly, right, especially a judicial verdict which declares someone approved or disapproved; a judgment (just finding) that regards someone (something) as "guilty" or "innocent." See 1343 (dikaiosynē).

[1349 (díkē) is used in classical Greek for a legal decision – a recompense (based on justice). In the LXX, dikē is used nine times to translate rî, the Hebrew term for "law-suit."]
 
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LW97 said:
I see you adressed Magenta... is SHE an Universalist?
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Far from it! She sees the lake of fire much like an incinerator. She said; "Those who's names are not written in the lambs book of life will by cast into the lake of fire." That's exactly what scripture says. So she simply believes they will cease to exist. As if they had been incinerated.
 
calibob said:
Far from it! She sees the lake of fire much like an incinerator. She said; "Those who's names are not written in the lambs book of life will by cast into the lake of fire." That's exactly what scripture says. So she simply believes they will cease to exist. As if they had been incinerated.
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Question

Does Everlasting life = Eternal life or temporary?

How does that jive with...

Everlasting punishment = temporal punishment?
 
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calibob said:
Far from it! She sees the lake of fire much like an incinerator. She said; "Those who's names are not written in the lambs book of life will by cast into the lake of fire." That's exactly what scripture says. So she simply believes they will cease to exist. As if they had been incinerated.
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And therein lies the problem, the incineration part. The supporting words for apollumi, apoleia and olethros are forever and ever, eternal, everlasting, no rest day or night, eternal misery, etc.
 
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dcontroversal said:
Question

Does Everlasting life = Eternal life or temporary?

How does that jive with...

Everlasting punishment = temporal punishment?
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Ceased to exist sounds permanent to me. But my view is different than her's. I believe those who reject Christ will get what they deserve. Jesus is Lord and only HE will decide. His decision will be final either way. It won't effect our salvation.
 
calibob said:
Ceased to exist sounds permanent to me. But my view is different than her's. I believe those who reject Christ will get what they deserve. Jesus is Lord and only HE will decide. His decision will be final either way. It won't effect our salvation.
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The problem IMO and what leads to an erroneous view that denies the truth of everlasting punishment is the way we view death which would be better viewed under the lense of seperation.... (by the way, you blew right by my point and what I asked you)
 
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Ahwatukee said:
And therein lies the problem, the incineration part. The supporting words for apollumi, apoleia and olethros are forever and ever, eternal, everlasting, no rest day or night, eternal misery, etc.
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Everlasting punishment is clear....especially in the light of the truth of EVERLASTING LIFE
 
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Ahwatukee said:
And therein lies the problem, the incineration part. The supporting words for apollumi, apoleia and olethros are forever and ever, eternal, everlasting, no rest day or night, eternal misery, etc.
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My main point was she's NOT a universalist. She is quite similar to an Anabaptist You know, adult baptism, saved by grace through faith not works etc. I am too.
 
dcontroversal said:
The problem IMO and what leads to an erroneous view that denies the truth of everlasting punishment is the way we view death which would be better viewed under the lense of seperation.... (by the way, you blew right by my point and what I asked you)
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No in fact I answered what I chose to answer at the time. I had never been asked the first part before so I took a little time to ponder it.

You know perfectly well that I am not a linguist. Nor do I understand much Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew. My family spoke English, Slavic and Spanish. But the question arises is the use of the term eternal. Please bear with me.

Why are there two judgments? 1 Before the millennium and the other after the Devil has been loosed for 3 days? I'm not a fan of all or nothing think. And what seems like an eternity to us is far short of the timelessness of God. I think it may be stated the way is maybe so it is more comprehendible to mankind.

I'd rather focus on Salvation than Damnation if nobody minds.
 
calibob said:
No in fact I answered what I chose to answer at the time. I had never been asked the first part before so I took a little time to ponder it.

You know perfectly well that I am not a linguist. Nor do I understand much Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew. My family spoke English, Slavic and Spanish. But the question arises is the use of the term eternal. Please bear with me.

Why are there two judgments? 1 Before the millennium and the other after the Devil has been loosed for 3 days? I'm not a fan of all or nothing think. And what seems like an eternity to us is far short of the timelessness of God. I think it may be stated the way is maybe so it is more comprehendible to mankind.

I'd rather focus on Salvation than Damnation if nobody minds.
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Every word is inspired and profitable.....and people need to k ow the consequence of rejecting Christ....if it is in the bible it is a very valid topic......and my point rings true....it is inconsistent to say

everlasting life means eternal life

while saying

everlasting punishment means temporal punishment
 
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Nehemiah6 said:
AND YOU STILL HAVE NOT FIGURED OUT WHAT HE MEANT.:confused:

There are no souls under the ground.
Just little creatures burrowing around.
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I never said there were souls underground. I have posted Scripture more than once to you that show the deceased saved are with/in Jesus. Your inability to acknowledge this in favor of your mocking seems typical for you.
 
dcontroversal said:
Every word is inspired and profitable.....and people need to k ow the consequence of rejecting Christ....if it is in the bible it is a very valid topic......and my point rings true....it is inconsistent to say

everlasting life means eternal life

while saying

everlasting punishment means temporal punishment
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When someone whose name is not written in the Lamb's book of life dies the second death, it is everlasting. That is the punishment for refusing God's grace affirmed in multiple books by multiple Scripture writer across the centuries. Claiming death is not a punishment seems extremely short sighted to me. It has always been God's way of punishing people. Good bye, David :)
 
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