Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine

[preacher4truth]

That's a cheap shot.
Are you claiming that the "true" gospel is salvation through self-effort? (works)

Brother, you are misunderstanding her and what she said.

 

[Sketch]

Brother, you are misunderstanding her and what she said.

I gave her the opportunity to explain. For that "crime" I got a cheap shot too.
I think I understand perfectly. Correct me if I am wrong. Thanks.

 

[dcontroversal]

Should it? (nope)
Eternal security is not a license to sin.

The term "OSAS" is derogatory. And therefore an offensive label.
The slanderous label was created by those who claim salvation is by works.

Those who believe in eternal security do not go by that label.
They believe that God, and only God, can nullify salvation on the grounds of apostacy.
This is in God's hands. There is NOTHING we can do to undo what ONLY God can do.

The "OSAS" hysteria is just that.
A divisive false accusation against your brothers and sisters in Christ.
Are you sure you want any part of that?

Agree with everything except the bolded......the salvation cannot be lost, God will whip, chasten, yank rewards and even bring you home early, but salvation is eternal and secure in Christ because it is the SPIRIT that has been born of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED by the IRREVOCABLE gift of life based upon grace and faith...

 

[Hevosmies]

These folks that complain about "OSAS" say that we can lose our salvation by our own doing.
How is that even possible? Even in the case of apostacy, it is in God's hands.
WE CANNOT UNDO WHAT ONLY GOD CAN DO IN THE FIRST PLACE !!!!!!!!!!!!

How is apostasy in God's hands? What do you mean?

 

[Hevosmies]

Newsflash: You don't.





What exactly did the blood of Christ do and how are sins dealt with? Also, what role does the High Priest serve? These are questions that once you find the answer to you come to realize the total forgiveness of sin that you have through the shed blood of Christ, and His role as our High Priest/Mediator.

You'll find out that the forgiveness of sin (or rather, remission of sin) happens through bloodshed (His sacrifice) and Jesus as our High Priest intercedes on our behalf forever, being a mediator between man and God. He is the propitiation for our sins, the appeasement. You'll also find out that Jesus doesn't do daily sacrifices to deal with daily sin like the priests of old, but having an eternal priesthood did one sacrifice for sin for all time.

Consider how the sins of new converts are dealt with. Through the blood of Christ, the shedding of His blood. His eternally sufficient sacrifice for sin. Now think, if sin is dealt with through bloodshed, how is your sin dealt with? Your answer is found in Christ, and His role as our High Priest.

Read the book of Hebrews to find all of this out, and more.

This should deserve its own topic.
Sounds like something Joseph Prince would say.

Are you saying we DONT need to confess our sins? (Despite the fact that John tells us to confess our sins in his epistles, and Jesus tells people to repent OR ELSE in the book of revelation adressing the churches)

Sounds wild and new.

I honestly would feel terrible if I didnt confess my sins regularly.

 

[Ariel82]

Yet another cheap shot. Inferring that I am stupid.

Don't bother.
My original comment stands.

Than you can stand as a false judge

I never called you stupid. I suggested you reread the thread and see the full picture before judging.(as someone who rereads the Bible yearly, I consider it wise to reread before commenting)

You would rather take the cheap way out and get offended and act the victim.

That is your choice.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

BUT YOU ARE EARNING IT. YOU CARE!!

WHEN YOU SIN AND KNOW YOU HAVE SHAMED YOURSELF TO GOD BECAUSE YOU CARE!!

YOU ARE THE CONDITION!!


We have already concluded together when we sin we ask for forgiveness. We both know there is a reason we ask for forgiveness. WE ARE HUMAN, and if we did not need to ask for forgiveness, WE HUMAN'S NEVER WOULD.

So, the fact we do ask for forgiveness is because of a CONDITION we have...we SIN!!

We must be SINLESS in order for God to keep His promise. He wants to keep it and WILL 100% But we still have to meet our end of the CONDITION. To be sinless to Him. This is how we show we are learning and becoming MORE LIKE HIM!! We therefore must be SINLESS to allow God to keep His promise to us!!

If I can earn it, It is not of grace it is of works.

You earn a wage, You earn a reward, You earn a position.

A gift of grace is freely given, It is completely unearned by the reciever, it is paid in full by the giver.

I do not ASK God for forgiveness, I come to the Throne of Grace. Admit (cpnfess) my sin, Admit I was in error. THANK GOD for forgving me, and seek his guidance on how to overcome next time I am confronted wiht thaty sin so I do not keep doing it.

 

[Nehemiah6]

But what do you mean by "genuinely believe"? How is that measured?

The ones who genuinely believe act on that faith immediately. Acts 2 gives us the picture.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

43And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

 

[BenFTW]

This should deserve its own topic.
Sounds like something Joseph Prince would say.

Are you saying we DONT need to confess our sins? (Despite the fact that John tells us to confess our sins in his epistles, and Jesus tells people to repent OR ELSE in the book of revelation adressing the churches)

Sounds wild and new.

I honestly would feel terrible if I didnt confess my sins regularly.

Hey Hevosmies, I am saying you don't need to confess your sins for forgiveness. You can confess them, you can seek the Lord for deliverance and understanding, expressing your desire for righteousness and holiness (asking the Lord to continue to sanctify you, and thanking Him for that process). There is nothing wrong with saying sorry, acknowledging that you fell short.

Yet God knows that we are capable of sin, and for that reason we have an Advocate.

1 John 2:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Our forgiveness is found in the blood of Christ, in His sacrifice. Notice the emphatic statement of verse 2, "he is the propitiation for our sins", a current reality. A lasting effect. Your sin is dealt with by Him being the propitiation for your sins. All of them. There can be no other way about it, because remission of sin only occurs through bloodshed. It has to be through Christ, and not sin confession (your forgiveness) because there is no remission without bloodshed.

Sin confession for the obtainment of forgiveness is contrary to the Gospel, it sets a barrier between God and man that Christ tore down. Jesus has reconciled, redeemed, and restored us to God. He will never leave us, nor forsake us.

When you consider all that Christ accomplished through His sacrifice, resurrection, and work as our High Priest, you understand the total forgiveness of sin that you have.

 

[Sketch]

Agree with everything except the bolded......the salvation cannot be lost, God will whip, chasten, yank rewards and even bring you home early, but salvation is eternal and secure in Christ because it is the SPIRIT that has been born of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED by the IRREVOCABLE gift of life based upon grace and faith...

I agree with you.
I'm not saying we can lose our salvation of our own free will.
In the case of Apostacy, God may choose to revoke it.
We cannot undo what only God can do in the first place.

 

[UnderGrace]

I agree with you.
I'm not saying we can lose our salvation of our own free will.
In the case of Apostacy, God may choose to revoke it.
We cannot undo what only God can do in the first place.

So God gives a gift and then decides to take it away, when we never did anything to earn the gift in the first place?

How deep and how long does the person apostate?

 

[UnderGrace]

They believe that God, and only God, can nullify salvation on the grounds of apostacy.

God does not declare someone forgiven of all debt, declare them justified, which is based upon the payment by another (Jesus), and then declare them guilty again......... this means the person (Jesus) who paid the debt did not do a complete payment.

 

[Sketch]

How is apostasy in God's hands? What do you mean?

You are probably familiar with backsliding. Someone falls away from God and comes back.
Apostasy would be the most extreme form of backsliding.

Apostasy in Christianity is the rejection of Christianity by someone who formerly was a Christian.
The term apostasy comes from the Greek word apostasia meaning defection, departure, revolt or rebellion.
It has been described as a willful falling away from, or rebellion against, Christianity.

I do not believe that we lose our salvation when we backslide, and regain it upon return.
The same principle applies to apostacy. Only God can revoke our salvation.
We cannot revoke our own salvation as a matter of our own free will.

What shall separate us from the love of God?

 

[UnderGrace]

You are probably familiar with backsliding. Someone falls away from God and comes back.
Apostasy would be the most extreme form of backsliding.

Apostasy in Christianity is the rejection of Christianity by someone who formerly was a Christian.
The term apostasy comes from the Greek word apostasia meaning defection, departure, revolt or rebellion.
It has been described as a willful falling away from, or rebellion against, Christianity.

I do not believe that we lose our salvation when we backslide, and regain it upon return.
The same principle applies to apostacy. Only God can revoke our salvation.
We cannot revoke our own salvation as a matter of our own free will.

What shall separate us from the love of God?

Well a extreme form of backsliding then infers the sacrifice of Jesus was not sufficient to save to the uttermost?

 

[Sketch]

Than you can stand as a false judge

I never called you stupid. I suggested you reread the thread and see the full picture before judging.(as someone who rereads the Bible yearly, I consider it wise to reread before commenting)

You would rather take the cheap way out and get offended and act the victim.

That is your choice.

More cheap shots.
And then accuses me of "acting" the victim. (having determined that I am not)

 

[UnderGrace]

Well a extreme form of backsliding then infers the sacrifice of Jesus was not sufficient to save to the uttermost?

God does not revoke anyone's salvation once given. A person declared just cannot become unjust.

You are basically saying we keep ourselves saved.

 

[UnderGrace]

More cheap shots.
And then accuses me of "acting" the victim. (having determined that I am not)

???

 

[Sketch]

So God gives a gift and then decides to take it away, when we never did anything to earn the gift in the first place?

How deep and how long does the person apostate?

The word apostate is a noun, not a verb.

 

[UnderGrace]

The word apostate is a noun, not a verb.

Which scripture are you referring to?

 

[Sketch]

God does not declare someone forgiven of all debt, declare them justified, which is based upon the payment by another (Jesus), and then declare them guilty again......... this means the person (Jesus) who paid the debt did not do a complete payment.

Salvation is receiving Christ. Apostacy is rejecting him. Both acts are significant.