Ephesians 2 is not preaching faith alone.

[Just_A__Follower]

Many readers of the KJV get that wrong. It is the 16th century way of saying "faith in Jesus Christ". It is distinguishing faith in Jesus from faith in other things. Check a modern translation unencumbered by blind tradition.


Jesus didn't need faith, because He is God and had seen God the Father. Your first statement is sound, the second is wrong, and the third is wacky.


That's not a complete sentence. Regardless, nothing is said in Ephesians 2 about "faith of man of himself". You have invented a windmill and are tilting at it.


Who says that man cannot have faith in Jesus Christ? Again, you seem to be railing at non-existent windmills.

His mistakes may be from all the pressure of attempt at appearing perfect. The anxiety level has to be high. The doctrine he claims though redefines sin so I guess that makes it a little easier. I was thinking he was just going by the Wesleyan view but his claim that I’m not part of the church points more to the Church of God(Anderson). Very interesting group of people. It’s very interesting on how they redefine sin to make perfection easier to reach. They don’t count the following as sin according to a quick AI search:
1. Mistakes ≠ sin

• Errors in judgment
• Poor decisions
• Misunderstandings
• Forgetfulness

All of these are labeled human infirmity, not sin.

So:

• saying something unwise
• reacting badly under pressure
• messing up without intent

→ not sin

2. Ignorance ≠ sin
If someone genuinely didn’t know something was wrong:

• it doesn’t count as sin
• even if it caused harm

This is huge, because it allows:

• theological disagreement
• moral blind spots
• cultural differences

…without expelling someone from “the Church.”

3. Temptation ≠ sin

• Feeling desire
• Experiencing internal conflict
• Having intrusive thoughts

None of that counts unless the will consents.

This sounds orthodox — but it becomes structurally necessary in their system.

4. Weakness / infirmity ≠ sin
This category does a lot of quiet work.

• emotional reactions
• impatience
• tone of voice
• lapses under stress

Often described as:

• “frailty”
• “human limitation”
• “physical or emotional weakness”

Not sin unless fully chosen with clear intent.
——————————————————

They base salvation purely off performance. Instead of sin being something we are born into and Jesus rescues us out of, they view it as sin being a choice that we must successfully avoid.

 

[HigherGospel]

1. Mistakes ≠ sin

• Errors in judgment
• Poor decisions
• Misunderstandings
• Forgetfulness

All of these are labeled human infirmity, not sin.

So:

• saying something unwise
• reacting badly under pressure
• messing up without intent

→ not sin

And yet these are all still falling short of God's absolute perfection and as such we still musty be cleansed from these.


1 John 5:16-17
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.
There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death

Those sins that do not cause separation from God are things such as forgetting to do something, maybe dropping something on the floor, etc.

While we need to be cleansed of these types of imperfections, they don't cause us to be separated from the Lord like doing things His Word calls out as sinful behavior does

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

This is what 1 John 1:7 is speaking of in that if we are abiding in Christ not doing things we know are sinful behavior which cause separation from God, then the Lord automatically cleanses us from mistakes, or sins that do not cause separation from God.

And yet they are in fact falling short of God's absolute perfection and as such we are cleansed from these imperfections which is what 1 John 1:7 is speaking of if we are abiding in Christ not doing things we know are sinful behavior

God's Word is clear that there is a sin not unto death as we see in 1 John 5:16-17 which is not speaking of the things God's Word calls out as sin as those things must be forsaken and confessed as sin before the Lord before we can be cleansed of those things by the Lord.

1 John 5:16-17
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.
There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death

The reason why 1 John 5:16-17 says to not pray for sins unto death is because that person must forsake and confess those sins before then Lord themselves before they can be cleansed of those sins as they have caused the person to be separated from God which is spiritual death

Now the false teachers (like the OSAS people and the reformed theology adherents) come along and will claim that if a Christian does a sin unto death, they are still in right standing with God and will still go to Heaven even if they do not forsake and confess their sin before the Lord.

But, they are teaching heresy and are to be ignored. Following people who go around proclaiming with great pride and arrogance that they are sinners is a recipe for becoming deceived

 

[Just_A__Follower]

And yet these are all still falling short of God's absolute perfection and as such we still musty be cleansed from these.


1 John 5:16-17
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.
There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death

Those sins that do not cause separation from God are things such as forgetting to do something, maybe dropping something on the floor, etc.

While we need to be cleansed of these types of imperfections, they don't cause us to be separated from the Lord like doing things His Word calls out as sinful behavior does

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

This is what 1 John 1:7 is speaking of in that if we are abiding in Christ not doing things we know are sinful behavior which cause separation from God, then the Lord automatically cleanses us from mistakes, or sins that do not cause separation from God.

And yet they are in fact falling short of God's absolute perfection and as such we are cleansed from these imperfections which is what 1 John 1:7 is speaking of if we are abiding in Christ not doing things we know are sinful behavior

God's Word is clear that there is a sin not unto death as we see in 1 John 5:16-17 which is not speaking of the things God's Word calls out as sin as those things must be forsaken and confessed as sin before the Lord before we can be cleansed of those things by the Lord.

1 John 5:16-17
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.
There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death

The reason why 1 John 5:16-17 says to not pray for sins unto death is because that person must forsake and confess those sins before then Lord themselves before they can be cleansed of those sins as they have caused the person to be separated from God which is spiritual death

Now the false teachers (like the OSAS people and the reformed theology adherents) come along and will claim that if a Christian does a sin unto death, they are still in right standing with God and will still go to Heaven even if they do not forsake and confess their sin before the Lord.

But, they are teaching heresy and are to be ignored. Following people who go around proclaiming with great pride and arrogance that they are sinners is a recipe for becoming deceived

I haven’t heard many people following Jesus confess to being a sinner in pride. I have heard it many times confessed in humility. Now on the other hand, I have heard many profess to being righteous in pride. To me sin is sin. I don’t redefine it like those in the post you replied to.

 

[HigherGospel]

I have heard it many times confessed in humility.

That's not humility, that's pride as they reject the whole counsel of God choosing to instead be cherry pickers who only believe bits and pieces of what God says in His Word.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


All things are possible thru Christ (Philippians 4:13), so THRU JESUS we actually DO have the ability to stop sinning IF, IF we
humble ourselves under His Mighty Hand (that's God's Word at God's Right Hand - Jesus Who is THE Christ)

1 Peter 5:6
Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

Galatians 5:16
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

We should not be willingly or knowingly doing sinful things... it should be a very rare occasion for a Christian to sin and IF
they did it would NOT be a situation where it's something they knew it was sinful and they decided to do it anyway.

1 John 1:8 is obviously speaking of if we claim we have never sinned... or if we make a mistake such as dropping something
on the floor accidentally which is an imperfection that is not unto death (does not cause us to be separated from God like
sin does)

The very next verse tells us if we confess our sins the Lord cleanses us of ALL unrighteousness... so is 1 John1:8 claiming 1
John1:9 is un-true???

 

[mailmandan]

In regard to 1 John 5:16, certain folks jump to the conclusion that John is talking about a believer committing a certain sin that leads them to spiritual death, but that does not fit the context. 1 John 5:16 - If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

In regard to 1 John 1:7, in verse 6 we read - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. *Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. *Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. *Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In verse 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that walks in darkness, hates his brother is connected with children of the devil.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

We should not be willingly or knowingly doing sinful things... it should be a very rare occasion for a Christian to sin and IF
they did it would NOT be a situation where it's something they knew it was sinful and they decided to do it anyway.

How many times does one have to sin before they become a sinner?

 

[HigherGospel]

How many times does one have to sin before they become a sinner?

How many times did Adam and Eve sin before they became sinners?

 

[Just_A__Follower]

How many times did Adam and Eve sin before they became sinners?

So are we not all sinners?

 

[ATG]

From GotQuestions:

While James 2:24 is the only verse that contains the precise phrase “faith alone,” there are many other verses that do, in fact, teach salvation by faith alone.

Since James 2 is definitive that faith alone is dead and cannot save, then any reading of other Scriptures that faith alone is alive to save, is making Scripture contradict itself.

Any verse that ascribes salvation to faith/belief, with no other requirement mentioned, is a declaration that salvation is by faith alone.

This is the false argument of proof by a negative.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

The verse of Scripture does not exclude faith from redemption, by not including faith in redemption.

Rom 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

The verse does not exclude grace from remission of sins, by not including grace.

All Scripture must be taken together to know the fullness of any Scripture.

John 3:16 declares that salvation is given to “whoever believes in Him.” Acts 16:31 proclaims, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.” Ephesians 2:8 says, “For by grace you have been saved through faith.”

You rightly include context of all Scripture, in order to know that salvation by believing in the Lord Jesus, includes by grace.

You falsely exclude context of Scripture justification by works, in order to falsely preach justification by faith alone.

You prove that you understand the principle of rightly dividing the word of truth by context of all Scripture taken together, and therefore prove you only do so to support your own personal doctrine of faith alone.

 

[James456]

You are justified by faith alone, but true faith will then bring forth results

 

[ATG]

Good. Then what does faith alone mean according to the Bible?

What does James 2 say? It's written on a grade school level.

2Co 3:12
Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

James{1:22}
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

 

[ATG]

You can say faith alone because where faith is works will be also.

No one can say faith alone with works. It's as grammatically nonsensical as having a lake alone without water.

If works will be where faith is, then faith is not alone. And if evil works will be where faith is, then faith is not of God, but the devil:

Jas 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

So long as anyone believes their faith alone in Christ justifies them with evil works, then their faith is in another Christ, than Jesus Christ the righteous judge of all men's works.

1 Peter {1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

As with where there’s a lake water will be also. Saying faith plus works is like saying lake plus water. I usually go to the lake alone in my boat.

Now you've shifted to something else entirely. No one is talking about adding water to a lake, but only adding water to dry ground to make a lake.

A lake is not a lake without water, because water is the source of a lake. Faith alone is dry ground without water from above.

However, there are clouds without water, that have no rain to produce fruit on the earth below.

Jde 1:12
Clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Faith alone is cloud full of air, with no rain working in the earth:

James 2:15
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Faith alone is all air, and no substance.

1Jo 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Luk 6:46
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Mat 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[James456]

For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. Rom3:28



As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. James2:26



Indeed, Paul would agree, though he penned Rom3:28:



Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance Rom6:16&17



So, if you follow a gospel message that says you are justified by faith alone change comes. The Romans believed the message and they were no longer a slave to sin, for faith without any results is dead faith, but justification is still by faith alone



You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. James2:24



Indeed, if no change in your life when you get justified by faith alone, no saving faith



Best not to try and bring Paul and James into conflict with each other

 

[ATG]

This is an excerpt from Luke 18

8 I tell you, He will promptly carry out justice on their behalf. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on earth?”
9 To some who trusted in their own righteousness and viewed others with contempt, He also told this parable:

I'm going to make an educated guess that the Son of Man is going to find as few of the former and a lot of the latter if I go by the statistical modeling of the dataset I see here.

True.

He finds faith only where He sees works.

Mark {2:4}
And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken [it] up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay. When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

Nowhere in Scripture does Jesus ever see faith, where there is no works:

Rev 2:2
I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil:

Rev 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich)

Rev 2:13
I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is:

Rev 2:19
I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Jesus doesn't even bother writing to any church that has faith alone without works. If they won't hear the apostle by Scripture, then neither will they here Him by voice:

Luk 16:31
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[Mem]

True.

He finds faith only where He sees works.

Mark {2:4}
And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken [it] up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay. When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

Nowhere in Scripture does Jesus ever see faith, where there is no works:

Rev 2:2
I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil:

Rev 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich)

Rev 2:13
I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is:

Rev 2:19
I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Jesus doesn't even bother writing to any church that has faith alone without works. If they won't hear the apostle by Scripture, then neither will they here Him by voice:

Luk 16:31
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Sure, as long as we're not presenting works as toward carrying out justice on our own behalf. We are to trust God's judgment toward all things.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

No one can say faith alone with works. It's as grammatically nonsensical as having a lake alone without water.

If works will be where faith is, then faith is not alone. And if evil works will be where faith is, then faith is not of God, but the devil:

Jas 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

So long as anyone believes their faith alone in Christ justifies them with evil works, then their faith is in another Christ, than Jesus Christ the righteous judge of all men's works.

1 Peter {1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:



Now you've shifted to something else entirely. No one is talking about adding water to a lake, but only adding water to dry ground to make a lake.

A lake is not a lake without water, because water is the source of a lake. Faith alone is dry ground without water from above.

However, there are clouds without water, that have no rain to produce fruit on the earth below.

Jde 1:12
Clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Faith alone is cloud full of air, with no rain working in the earth:

James 2:15
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Faith alone is all air, and no substance.

1Jo 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Luk 6:46
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Mat 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

I am saved by my faith alone and you are saved by your faith plus your works. That’s fine. You are free to believe what you like. You are also free to completely misunderstand what others mean when they say that no matter how many times they explain it to you.

You may honestly want to take a deep look at Isaiah 64:6 and Luke 18:9-14 though. You should also maybe look at righteousness being received vs righteousness being achieved and figure out the difference.

 

[ATG]

Um... that's exactly what faith saves from.

Correct. That's exactly what someone's faith alone imagines to be saved from: Saved from condemnation of evil, not from doing evil.

Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?...For there is no respect of persons with God.

The faith of Jesus Christ delivers us from doing evil, that our works are not judged as evil.

Mat 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Jhn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1Jo 3:8
He that is committing sin is of the devil; for the devil is sinning from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

The great delusion God sends to them naming His name, is that He only saves them from His judgment, not from the evil works, that He shall condemn without respect of persons:

1 Peter {1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:

Jesus Christ is not an unjust judge that does not judge the works of His people, the same as the works of strangers. When He comes again, He will firtst judge between His wheat doing His righteousness, and the tares doing unrighteousness of the world:

2Co 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;

Faith in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross on our behalf saves us from the judgment of God leveled at us for our sin (unrighteous works), because Jesus took that judgment (death) on our behalf.

We see the airy ideas of an imaginary faith alone without works, as well as without Scripture saying so.

Nowhere does Scripture ever say, that a man is 'saved' from judgment of God. Especially not while doing unrighteousness against God and man. God has no respect to any man's faith that does evil.

You still don't distinguish between works for salvation and works from salvation. Until you do, your arguments are just clatter.

You still don't acknowledge that works of justification are works with salvation. Until you do, your arguments are just airy.

1Co 14:9
So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

There is no 'Faith Alone' that saves the soul in the beginning, and continues to save the soul, that continues with evil works.

When you acknowledge that your Faith Alone justifies you, including while also doing unrighteousness, then you're Faith Alone will no longer only be imaginary. If not still wrongly believed.

Otherwise, your Faith Alone that saves you in the beginning, does not justify you with evil deeds in the end.

People who have put their faith in Jesus do the works that He prepared in advance for them to do.

Exactly, they have the faith of Jesus to do His good will, and not to do evil. And that faith is never alone without doing good, no more than Jesus is ever alone and not doing good:

Jhn 8:29
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

The Father did not leave His Son alone on earth, by always doing good to please Him. So shall the Father and the Son not leave His sons, that likewise do always those things that please the Father and the Son.

They are not saved by those works;

They are justified by those works that please the Father and the Son. They are not justified by any works that displease the Father and the Son.

Those having their faith alone not doing good, are left alone with their faith doing no good.

rather, they demonstrate that person's faith is genuine.

Works that prove faith, is faith with works, not being alone. Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

The works that prove the faith saves, are the works that justify the man with the Father and the Son. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

There are people (Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses, for example) who believe that we need faith AND works to be saved,

There are apostles who preach that we need faith AND works to be saved and justified with God:

James{2:22}
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Rom 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

and that we cannot even know whether we are saved until the Judgment. That is not biblical Christianity.

True.

1Jo 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

We know we are saved by Jesus' faith on earth, that delivers from doing those things that God judges evil.

We are eternally saved in the end of this life, without any more temptations nor trials of faith, by resurrection from the dead unto everlasting life.

Mark 13: 13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Those who don't know they are saved by the faith of Jesus, don't know that they are only doing good, because they still do evil. They are hoping to have more good works than bad in life, and trusting in a false relative judgment of good works vs bad.

God is not a relative humanist man, that judges between good and evil works. Nor is He a pagan goddess of justice, that balances the relative works on a scale between good and evil.

 

[ATG]

Works before salvation don't bring about salvation.

Exactly. Now you know the difference between being saved by works before faith toward God, and justified by works with faith of Jesus Christ.

Eph 2 rejects any salvation or justification by any faith with works, that any man can boast of before God.

James 2 rejects any salvation or justification by any faith without works, that cannot be seen by God.

God does not see any secret Faith Alone within, while no man can see any faith without.

Jas 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Correct (biblically sound) faith results in salvation. Such faith is not mixed with works to earn salvation,

Since faith results in salvation, then faith is before salvation. Faith with works is salvation and justification.

Faith not mixed with works is not salvation. It's dead faith alone, being without works:

James{2:14}
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?...Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

for such works add nothing to our salvation.

Works don't add anything to any Faith Alone, else faith is not alone.

Good works add only to faith with works:

2 pet 1:4
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Faith alone without works is barren and unfruitful and cannot be justified.

Tit 3:14
And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

Faith Alone is all wind without working substance:

Jde 1:12
Clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Works motivated by the Spirit in us after salvation affirm salvation by demonstrating the faith is genuine.

Good Works motivated by the Spirit in us with salvation, affirm Jesus' salvation is faith with good works.

Evil Works motivated with any faith in us, affirms it's not Jesus' faith that only does good.

Absence of such works demonstrates something wrong or lacking in one's faith.

Absence of works demonstrates something dead in one's faith, being alone.

It's not possible to be saved by a faith that is alone without works, and be justified by a faith alone that is with works, not being alone.

No faith alone that saves in the beginning, is a faith with works that justifies in the end.

Works motivated by the desire to remain sufficiently "holy" (such as keeping the Law) add nothing to our salvation.

Works motivated by the love of God are sufficiently holy as God is holy, (such as keeping the Law) and add virtue, temperance, godliness, brotherly kindness, and charity to our salvation.

Works motivated by not keeping the law are sufficiently evil before God, and add no virtue, temperance, godliness, brotherly kindness, and charity to our life.

Gal 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting…For there is no respect of persons with God.

2Co 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done.

 

[ATG]

Choosing to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior is a good work that causes salvation.

Scripture calls it repenting of dead works for Jesus' sake, without which there is no salvation.

Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Jesus has done all the work for God to forgive sins of any man, but man must do the repenting to receive forgiveness of all past sinning.

Without repenting of all our sins and trespasses, we cannot receive Jesus' gift of faith toward God, because of our impenitent hearts that still lust for the world.

And since it's only by the drawing of the Spirit of grace to repent with godly sorrow, then repentance is also God's gift

Acts{11:18}
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the nations granted repentance unto life.

And so, Jesus Christ has done His part, that no sinner can do, by dying for our sins. And sinners can now do our part that Jesus can't do for us, by repenting of our sins. But only God by Jesus Christ's resurrection, gets all the glory for saving and justifying sinners from all sins and transgressions.

Mat 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Jhn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Mar 8:34
And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

 

[Lovette]

Faith and work are the two sides of one coin, work is the PROOF of salvation. You don't work FOR salvation, you work BECAUSE of salvation.