Fine. Be an idiot. I really don't care.See there, we'll take that as a yes. View attachment 284603
You roll with the OSAS people and you know it.
Fine. Be an idiot. I really don't care.See there, we'll take that as a yes. View attachment 284603
You roll with the OSAS people and you know it.
I'll instruct once more for you, since you are at least sincere, though mistaken: The temporal natural blood of Jesus shed on the cross, is not the eternal spiritual blood of the risen Lord, that is sprinkled on them that believe and obey Him.
The only people Jesus 'washed' with His natural blood, were them that scourged and crucified Him. There was also Simon of Cyrene that helped carry His bloody cross, and Joseph who wrapped His bloody corpse in linen cloth.
And you say you have Jesus' natural blood being sprinkled on you. Do you also drink His natural blood contrary to the law of Christ:
Jhn 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed…He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
1Co 11:29
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
The Scripture admonishes drinking the wine of communion without judging it as the Lord's. Not that the wine is the Lord's natural blood, neither during communion nor at the last supper:
Mat 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
By law of God, no one has ever drank Jesus's natural blood: Not at the last supper, nor at the cross, nor by communion after His resurrection.
Lev 17:14
For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.
Act 15:29
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
If you refuse to discern the difference between natural temporal things and eternal spiritual things, such as the natural blood of Jesus, that was shed into the earth the same as righteous Abel's and all men's blood, then you can't be instructed on the difference between drinking the eternal blood of the resurrection Spirit, and drinking the Jesus' natural blood shed 2000 years ago.
1Co 2:14
For the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
No one is being sprinkled and washed, nor drinking Jesus' shed natural blood, as by some kind of supernatural osmosis. In this manner Protestants join the Catholics in saying the wine of communion is become 'in verity' the blood of Jesus, as by sanctification prayer of the priest.
2Ti 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
James{2:21}
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
It's evident that WE see from the Word that he is justified before men by offering Isaac.
This is a Bible event used to drive home that believers should show one another mercy and good works if we say we have faith.
Otherwise, what good are we to those who need a coat on a cold day like today. Brother knocks on my door shiveringand I send him away, "I'll pray for you brother!"
Bye-bye.
How about if I invite him in, warm him up and give him a coat and hot beverage. Then my faith actually means something to him. This isn't an example how we all must attempt to offer our only son in order to be saved.
As far as salvation from Hell,
It's not by works of righteousness which we have done.
Romans 3
20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in HIS sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:8 is used by many Christians to preach a gospel of salvation and justification by faith alone without works; Which some say is justification by faith apart from any works that we may be doing at the time, whether good or evil. So what does the Scripture say?
Other than James 2 declaring that faith alone without works is dead, and can save no man; Eph 2 isn't talking about faith alone without works. Rather Eph2 is making the difference between the faith of God with works of grace, vs the faith of man with works to brag about.
Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
That not of ourselves, is that faith that is of God, and not of ourselves. And so we see the division made between the two. The same faith is not being spoken of throughout this verse of Scripture.
Only that faith by grace is the gift of God, but that faith of man is by his own will alone.
Psa 146:3
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
By grace, the gift of God is that faith in Jesus Christ, by which we can do the works of God that please Him, and not ourselves alone. We no more do our own works by our own faith, which we can temporarily boast of:
Rom 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
1Co 9:24
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
But now by grace through Jesus' gift of faith, we cease doing our own works of faith, and instead can by God's faith, do His good will forever:
Heb 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
1Co 15:10
t by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
1Jo 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
You have it back to front. We are saved by grace. The carnal always put man first. They make salvation dependent on the individual. According to God's word, we are dead, crucified with Christ. Try looking at the wonderful work that Jesus has already done for us by His death and resurrection. I think even the angels are confused by your weird interpretations.Eph 2:8 is used by many Christians to preach a gospel of salvation and justification by faith alone without works; Which some say is justification by faith apart from any works that we may be doing at the time, whether good or evil. So what does the Scripture say?
Other than James 2 declaring that faith alone without works is dead, and can save no man; Eph 2 isn't talking about faith alone without works. Rather Eph2 is making the difference between the faith of God with works of grace, vs the faith of man with works to brag about.
Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
That not of ourselves, is that faith that is of God, and not of ourselves. And so we see the division made between the two. The same faith is not being spoken of throughout this verse of Scripture.
Only that faith by grace is the gift of God, but that faith of man is by his own will alone.
Psa 146:3
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
By grace, the gift of God is that faith in Jesus Christ, by which we can do the works of God that please Him, and not ourselves alone. We no more do our own works by our own faith, which we can temporarily boast of:
Rom 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
1Co 9:24
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
But now by grace through Jesus' gift of faith, we cease doing our own works of faith, and instead can by God's faith, do His good will forever:
Heb 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
1Co 15:10
t by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
1Jo 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
Two different salvations
Faith alone = placed into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit. This saves you from the second death.
Works through Faith = activity of righteousness defined by being led by the Spirit of God. This saves you from the corruption of the world.
Adam is responsible for the sin in the flesh. Therefore a new identity, not in Adam, is required to escape the second death. Here, faith is required.
Satan is responsible for the corruption of the world. He is the god of the air. The systems he created are designed to entrap men within them through messages of self-reliance and fear. Only people who are in Christ may accomplish works of faith that "deliver them from evil". By these works they are saved, not to go to heaven (that is already accomplished), but from the ways of the wicked one.
The faith that does not save us, aside from having dead faith alone without works, is our own faith to do our own will, by which we boast. That is not the faith of God by grace, but is that proud faith of man, that trusts in himself, and has something to glory in:
Rom 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
1Co 9:24
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
The faith we have in our own selves, is to do our own will and claim the temporary crown and glory thereof.
While it's not wrong in itself to have faith in things we do to achieve success, except we boast, that's not the faith that is only given by God to serve Him, and obtain the resurrection unto life:
Collosians{3:23}
And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; {3:24} Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. {3:25} But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.
And so, preaching faith alone without works, is not only a dead faith that cannot save, it's also not any faith preached in Eph 2. It’s certainly not preached by God to man for man’s good, since God in James 2 concludes it is dead being alone.
James{2:14}
What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?...Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
The gospel of salvation by grace is only through that one faith of God, that is the gift of Jesus Christ in Eph 2, whereby we do His will and not our will:
Heb 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
2Pe 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
This is the only precious faith of Christ toward God, that is given by grace to them that repent unto the saving of the soul:
Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Neither man's own faith in himself, with the works that he has done to boast of, nor any faith that dead without works, can save the soul from the sin and trespass of our own will alone:
Titus{3:4}
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, {3:5} Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
James{2:14}
What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?...Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Amen! It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24-26; 4:5-6; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*This is not what many Christians preach. Hyper-grace is preached by very few, in fact. Yes, most Christians preach that salvation and justification is by faith alone, not by a faith that is alone. Works will always follow a true living faith, not because of effort, but because our desires have been changed.
Well said. Especially also Ephesians 2:1-5.
We are sinners saved by grace, not by works thru faith in Jesus Christ, by the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit.
Yes by grace.. God's unmerited favor we have been saved...not of our self but it is a gift of God. Yet some are still trying to tie works equals salvation to some degree. As if a sinner could never sin.. always doing good helping the poor every moment of their life. That to God is filthy rags. Yet someone that believes in trusts in Jesus Christ... for some is not good enough... no no you need good works are your not getting in. Why not just say it like you mean it. Your already making statements that are not in Gods word.
So yes some believe faith in Jesus Christ who came in the flesh died on the cross for the worlds sin was buried rose the 3rd day is seated at the right hand of the Father the only way to the Father. What you do not seem to know or understand is there is no demon no fallen angel that will ever confess this they cannot for it is truth and there is no truth in them. It is only by the sweet holy Spirit we can and do confess with our mouth and believe in our heart.
"And that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness". That is not some thought. Did God create a new spirit in us? Did He not say OT "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. " When Christ walked this earth and found the 12.. when did He send them out to cast out demons? Right at the start. They come back "ooh man demons are subject unto us WOOT!" He said.. guys no wooting.. haha.. rejoice that your name are written in heaven. This was said before.. I mean years before He said "if you love me keep my words/commands". I never loved Him .. I didn't even know Him yet I believed in Him age about 9.
The good I want to do.. the good I should do.. man I don't do it, but the sin I should not be doing.. I do. Hmm its no longer I that sin but sin that is in me. I was happily shocked when I heard this Cathodic Father say "its not the new me that desires to sin but the old me". He knew this flesh loves to sin.. It has never been changed but the new man.....loves to do good...loves to help to do good worksof which did not cannot save me. I digress
Is there a new man, new spirit or is this just some simple thought .. were talking about.
Random thoughts from my mind:
To catch fish(be saved) you need a lake(faith). If there is a lake(faith) then you can catch fish(be saved).
Exactly. Faith alone is dry ground with no water. Not so much as a puddle, much less a lake.If there is no water(works) then there is no lake(faith).
Not without the work of catching the fish. If the lake is alone, there's no fishing.So yes you can catch fish(be saved) in a lake(faith) alone.
???The water(works) is only proof that the lake(faith) is there.
The origin of the lake is in fact works but rather works of the Creator not us.
Our faith is proof of His works in us
as our works are proof of the faith He has produced in us.
You either do not understand what "faith alone" means, or you intentionally misrepresent it.Faith Alone is an imaginary lake without water, that can't be seen by man, much less fished in.
Our faith is proof of His works in us as our works are proof of the faith He has produced in us.
Only when in the flesh:You wrote:
Other than James 2 declaring that faith alone without works is dead, and can save no man; Eph 2 isn't talking about faith alone without works. Rather Eph2 is making the difference between the faith of God with works of grace, vs the faith of man with works to brag about.
Omniscient Beings do not exercise faith.
And yet God says, that if we are not doing His works, then the faith we have within us, is our's alone, and not His faith at all.
Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Anyone having faith and doing evil, proves they have the faith of devils:
Jas 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
The verse is irrelevant to your comment.And anyone having faith in Christ and doing evil, has their faith in the wrong Christ, not Jesus Christ the righteous, who justifies no one that does evil.
Jer 26:3
If so be my people will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.
Only when in the flesh:
Gal 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Rom 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Jesus didn't need faith, because He is God and had seen God the Father. Your first statement is sound, the second is wrong, and the third is wacky.Anyone saying Jesus was God, but not a man in the flesh, is a docetic.
Anyone saying Christ was not a man of faith toward God, is not talking about Jesus Christ of God.
And finally, anyone rejecting having the faith of Jesus in the flesh, is rejecting walking by the faith of Jesus, even as He walked on earth.
That's not a complete sentence. Regardless, nothing is said in Ephesians 2 about "faith of man of himself". You have invented a windmill and are tilting at it.1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
This is why Eph 2 declares receiving the gift of faith toward God by Jesus Christ, and not that faith of man of himself, that does not walk as Jesus walked.
Who says that man cannot have faith in Jesus Christ? Again, you seem to be railing at non-existent windmills.Saying the faith of Jesus Christ the righteous cannot be had by man