Elijah will surely come

[Dino246]

This has nothing to do with my theology. Let's go back to Malachi 4, and let's also be clear that the day of the LORD (the Great Tribulation and its aftermath) has not occurred as yet.

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. (Malachi 4:5,6)

But Elijah must return to earth BEFORE the Great Tribulation (which corresponds to "the day of the LORD"), therefore he does return during the preceding Tribulation period

Malachi did not say that Elijah would come immediately before the day of the LORD. He simply said, "before".

David was king before Hezekiah was king, but not immediately before. Isaiah prophesied before Agabus prophesied, but not immediately before. Israel was in Egypt before Israel was in Babylon, but not immediately before.

You're trying to make a case on the idea that "before" must mean "immediately before" when in fact it simply means "at a time prior to" without specifying how much time prior.

 

[Scribe]

I'm afraid you have read something into this verses and not taken it for what it says. Rebirth is an-other birth in the existing spirit of a man (Jn.3:6). Its result is that one becomes a son of God. It is reserved for BELIEVERS (Jn.1:12-13). Ezekiel 36:26 is addressed to Israel - "who are concluded by God in UNBELIEF" until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in (Rom.11:25-32). It is addressed to Israel, and APPLIED WHEN they are gathered from their diaspora (v.24). Here is the context. Ezekiel 36:24-27;

24 "For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."

The result of rebirth is to have eternal life (Jn.3:14-16). The result of having a new spirit will be that they "walk in God's statutes, keep His judgments and do them" .

Nicodemus could not have known of the rebirth. It was hatched in heaven and needed One from heaven to tell of it. And Ephesians 1:8-10 and 3:3-9 plainly say that the gospel of Christ was hid in ages past.

No need to be afraid. The subject matter that Jesus was talking to Nicodemus about was something that was prophesied but they did not have ears to hear or eyes to see but that was their fault not Gods. As a master of Israel, how could he not know what Jesus was talking about? '

It was prophesied not only in Ezek but in other scriptures as well. I know where and Nicodemus should have 'snapped' after hearing Jesus speak as he did, if he was such an expert of the scriptures as the Pharisees thought they were he would have. But just as they were wrong about 'no prophet from Galilee" they missed many things that were written about in the prophets including what Jesus was telling Nicodemus about in this passage.

 

[Corban]

No need to be afraid. The subject matter that Jesus was talking to Nicodemus about was something that was prophesied but they did not have ears to hear or eyes to see but that was their fault not Gods. As a master of Israel, how could he not know what Jesus was talking about? '

It was prophesied not only in Ezek but in other scriptures as well. I know where and Nicodemus should have 'snapped' after hearing Jesus speak as he did, if he was such an expert of the scriptures as the Pharisees thought they were he would have. But just as they were wrong about 'no prophet from Galilee" they missed many things that were written about in the prophets including what Jesus was telling Nicodemus about in this passage.

O.K. Thanks for the reply. I respect your point of view.

 

[Yahshua]

To establish precedent, recall that several passages of scripture are only partially fulfilled (many times, only parts of sentences were fulfilled at the Messiah's first coming). So I believe when we read the passage of Malachi 4:6 we're equally reading a two-part fulfillment.


Malachi 4:5-6
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and awesome Day of the LORD. And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.


When John was asked if he was Elijah he plainly said, "no". (John 1:21). But then we have the Messiah who said...


Mat 17:11-12
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 But I say unto you, That Elias has come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.


1) Elijah has come
2) Elijah shall come


I think the clue to this two-part fulfillment can be found in the prophecy spoken to Zechariah (John's dad) by Gabriel...


Luke 1:16-17
Many of the sons of Israel he will turn back to the Lord their God. 17 And he will go on before the Lord in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous— to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.


Notice that it was NEVER prophesied by Gabriel that John would turn the hearts of the children back to the fathers. It's plausible John only performed the first part of the prophecy preparing the way for the first coming of the Lord. So if we follow the pattern, someone else performs the second part of the prophecy for the second coming of the Lord...especially considering that the "children" (descendants) of Israel are so far removed from having the hearts of their "forefathers" as of 2021.


1) Elijah has come (in John) turning the hearts of the fathers to their children
2) Elijah shall come (in another) turning the hearts of the children to their fathers?


As a King - and in fact, as King of all kings - His way MUST be prepared, as scripture says. The red carpet must be laid out (in fact, that's where the tradition comes from; from royalty). And a herald must always precede the King's appearance. "Hear ye! Hear Ye! Make way the path for the king!" So if we expect Him to come again, we should expect Malachi 4:6 to be fulfilled a second time.


The Messiah's 1st mission and subsequently necessary "future 2nd coming" was all a mystery to those He appeared to in Jerusalem, so I believe this is why the Messiah spoke the way He did to them about Elijah and John.

 

[KT88]

This has nothing to do with my theology. Let's go back to Malachi 4, and let's also be clear that the day of the LORD (the Great Tribulation and its aftermath) has not occurred as yet.

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. (Malachi 4:5,6)

But Elijah must return to earth BEFORE the Great Tribulation

"This has nothing to do with my theology"

Sure it does, you just tied the Malachi prophecy to a return of Elijah to earth before the GT. This is where you are going wrong.

Jesus tied the Malachi prophecy to John the B. and so did the angel:

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

It`s more than obvious that the disciples via the teaching of the scribes were expecting a literal return of Elijah, however Jesus and the angel stated otherwise.

This should alert us to the fact that not every prophecy is to be fulfilled literally but could be fulfilled in a manner we don't expect.

Take for example:

Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Isa 40:4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:

Were all the valleys raised and every mountain/hill made low? No, thus we find that prophecy is not all literally fulfilled.

How would we know that the prophecy of "the voice" in Isaiah was fulfilled in John the B? By Matthew declaring it in his gospel. The same goes for Jesus and the angel identifying John with the Elijah prophecy. There is no need to look for a return of Elijah

 

[Scribe]

"This has nothing to do with my theology"

Sure it does, you just tied the Malachi prophecy to a return of Elijah to earth before the GT. This is where you are going wrong.

Jesus tied the Malachi prophecy to John the B. and so did the angel:

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

It`s more than obvious that the disciples via the teaching of the scribes were expecting a literal return of Elijah, however Jesus and the angel stated otherwise.

This should alert us to the fact that not every prophecy is to be fulfilled literally but could be fulfilled in a manner we don't expect.

Take for example:

Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Isa 40:4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:

Were all the valleys raised and every mountain/hill made low? No, thus we find that prophecy is not all literally fulfilled.

How would we know that the prophecy of "the voice" in Isaiah was fulfilled in John the B? By Matthew declaring it in his gospel. The same goes for Jesus and the angel identifying John with the Elijah prophecy. There is no need to look for a return of Elijah

It's an interesting topic. I have to admit that I am not convinced that Jesus words rule out an additional end time fulfilment. The way Jesus said it leaves room for more.

Joseph A Seiss from his "Apocalypse: lectures on Revelation." Lecture 23, and 24 has a great deal to say about why he believes that Elijah is one of the two witnesses. It is in the public domain. One of the best commentaries on Revelation from a Pre Trib, pre mill view written in the 1800s. It can downloaded or read online.
http://www.indywatchman.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/The-Apocalypse-Joseph-Seiss.pdf

I am not sure if Elijah will be one of the witnesses but I think Seiss makes a good argument about why he thinks that the prophesy has an additional end time fulfilment in addition to John the Baptist.

 

[GaryA]

To establish precedent, recall that several passages of scripture are only partially fulfilled (many times, only parts of sentences were fulfilled at the Messiah's first coming). So I believe when we read the passage of Malachi 4:6 we're equally reading a two-part fulfillment.


Malachi 4:5-6
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and awesome Day of the LORD. And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.


When John was asked if he was Elijah he plainly said, "no". (John 1:21). But then we have the Messiah who said...


Mat 17:11-12
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 But I say unto you, That Elias has come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.


1) Elijah has come
2) Elijah shall come

No - it is not two-part. (This is actually very simple.)

When Jesus said "Elias truly shall first come" in Matthew 17:11, He was not in any way referring to the Malachi verses in the quote above. It has nothing to do with those verses. It has nothing to do with Elijah "coming" before the Day of the Lord - or any other "future" event.

In the context of Matthew 17 (the whole chapter), the phrase (that Jesus said) can mean only one thing. He is referring to John the Baptist "shall first come" before Himself.

And, he did...

The answer that Jesus gave them was based in the context of their question: "Why then say the scribes...?"

When Jesus said "Elias truly shall first come", it was in explanation of the question - not a prophetic statement about a future event.

 

[Nehemiah6]

When Jesus said "Elias truly shall first come", it was in explanation of the question - not a prophetic statement about a future event.

Christ was referring to this: Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: ... (Mal 3:1) and Mark referred to this exact verse:

As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. (Mk 1:2-4)

Why did Jesus present John as Elijah? Because he came "in the spirit and power of Elijah" (as stated by the angel Gabriel). Just as Elisha received a double portion of the spirit of Elijah, John received the same spirit to bring Israel to repentance. Neither Elisha nor John could be mistaken for Elijah, therefore it was a metaphorical application of the name "Elijah" when referring to John.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John,
And if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
Matthew 11:14‭-‬15 ESV

 

[Rondonmon]

There are many who mistakenly believe that Elijah came to earth as John the Baptist. But when the angel Gabriel spoke to John’s father Zachariah, he said that John would come “in the spirit and power of Elijah”, not as an incarnation of Elijah: And he shall go before Him [Christ] in the spirit and power of Elias [Elijah], to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Yes, John the Baptist was given a portion of Elijah's spirit because Elijah is to come BEFORE the DOTL (God's judgments) arrives. If Israel had of repented and accepted Jesus as their Messiah, Jesus would have returned and saved them from the Fourth Beast in 70 AD, but the Dan. 9:24-27 prophecy explicitly states that all these things must happen first, and Israel never repented, thus they have to repent before these 70th-week events can come to pass, thus God inserted the Church Age and saw Israel as Dead Men's Bones for nigh 2000 years. So, you are spot on, John was born of a Women, he was not Elijah returning, but Jesus states for all intense purposes, John did the exact same thing that Elijah would have done, but the people had a heart of rejection in them, in other words, Jesus was telling them John did the exact same thing that Elijah is going to do when he is sent back, IMHO, with Moses, whom we also see at the transfiguration on the mount with Jesus just before his death.

But the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation are in the future (possibly in the very near future). Which means that immediately after the Antichrist takes control of this world, Elijah will appear with Moses in Jerusalem to preach the Gospel to the Jews (Revelation 11) and turn many to Christ (even though they will be martyred).

Close, but Elijah shows up as Malachi 4:5-6 says BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord. You see, Israel has to repent first, thus they can flee to Judea BEFORE the A.C. conquers Jerusalem at the 1260 event, they flee at the (AoD) 1290 Event, which is 30 days before the 1260 event. The False Prophet (a Jewish High Priest) takes away the Sacrifice (Jesus Worship, not a meat sacrifice) and then defiles the temple by placing the AoD which is an Image of the A.C. in the temple of God. Thus the False Prophet (Jewish High Priest) does this 30 days before the Anti-Christ comes to power. Zechariah 13:8-9 says that 1/3 of the Jews repent and turn unto God and that 2/3 will not repent and will thus perish, but what does the very next verse say? Zechariah 14:1, BEHOLD the Day of the Lord Cometh !! Jerusalem then gets sacked. So, the Jews repent BEFORE the DOTL, and on that day, the day that God's Judgment starts via the first Trumpet, the Asteroid strike, this evil tyrant will use that asteroid strike as a cloak to go forth conquering amidst the chaos on this earth at that time. The Jews will thus flee at the 1290, which is 30 days before the 1260, the BLESSING is the Two-witnesses showing up at the 1335.

Everything else is pretty spot on, except its a Demon named Apollyon that ascends out of the bottomless pit, not the Anti-Christ.

God Bless....