Elijah will surely come

[Nehemiah6]

About 400 years before Christ, God revealed this to the nation of Israel (and subsequently to the Church):

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse... For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. (Malachi 4:5,6,1)

There are many who mistakenly believe that Elijah came to earth as John the Baptist. But when the angel Gabriel spoke to John’s father Zachariah, he said that John would come “in the spirit and power of Elijah”, not as an incarnation of Elijah: And he shall go before Him [Christ] in the spirit and power of Elias [Elijah], to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Just as Elisha received a double portion of the spirit of Elijah (2 Kings 2:9,15), John received the sprit and power of Elijah, which enable him to bring many in Israel to repentance. So when Jesus said that Elijah had “already come”, this is what He was referring to metaphorically.

But the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation are in the future (possibly in the very near future). Which means that immediately after the Antichrist takes control of this world, Elijah will appear with Moses in Jerusalem to preach the Gospel to the Jews (Revelation 11) and turn many to Christ (even though they will be martyred).

When Elijah was on earth during the reign of wicked king Ahab, he caused the rain to cease in Israel for 3 ½ years (which time also corresponds to the reign of the Antichrist). The epistle of James refers to this: Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit. (James 5:17,18)

The Bible tells us that the witnesses (who are also prophets) in Revelation 11 will do exactly the same thing: These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. (Rev 11:6)

Therefore it is reasonable to connect the prophecy of Malachi with Revelation 11, and presume that one of these prophets is Elijah. And since Moses turned the Nile into blood, it is reasonable to postulate that Moses is the other prophet.

We know from Revelation 11 that the wrath of Satan and the Antichrist will be kindled against these two prophets and they will be killed. But we also know that after 3 ½ days they will not only be resurrected, but will also be raptured to Heaven:

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit [the Antichrist] shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

 

[TMS]

Be careful
your building on shaky ground.

Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Mat 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
Mat 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Mat 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Mat 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

John was very much like Elijah in spirit. A wild humble man that preached a message for that time. Repent

1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
1Ki 18:37 Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.
Mat 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
Mat 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

repent and turn to God.

Can we be filled with a humble Spirit and preach Gods message today?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Be careful... your building on shaky ground.

How can I be building on "shaky ground" when I am actually presenting the relevant Scriptures? If all you wanted to do is provide a negative response, then you are the one on shaky ground.

If you do not believe that Elijah will surely come, that's your problem. John the Baptist was not Elijah (as Gabriel already made that clear). There is no such thing as reincarnation taught in the Bible. And Malachi has clearly prophesied that Elijah will come BEFORE the Day of the LORD (the Great Tribulation).

 

[Dino246]

How can I be building on "shaky ground" when I am actually presenting the relevant Scriptures? If all you wanted to do is provide a negative response, then you are the one on shaky ground.

If you do not believe that Elijah will surely come, that's your problem. John the Baptist was not Elijah (as Gabriel already made that clear). There is no such thing as reincarnation taught in the Bible. And Malachi has clearly prophesied that Elijah will come BEFORE the Day of the LORD (the Great Tribulation).

You seem to have ignored the relevant evidence that TMS presented: Matthew 11:14. I notice you didn't include it in your OP.

Gabriel's message to Zechariah was an obvious reference to Malachi's prophecy and less obvious to that of Isaiah, which John himself explained in Luke 3:4-6. Jesus explicitly stated that John was the Elijah who was to come. There was no reincarnation, just clearly-fulfilled prophecy. It's a done deal.

 

[TMS]

there is no reincarnation so either it is the spirit and message of Elijah or Elijah in person. So either Elijah will be born into the world like Jesus or come as a person with an understanding of everything. Or The message and Spirit of Elijah will come by someone or by multiple people in it's time.

Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Mat 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Jesus Said that Elijah had already come.

Sure John was not the reincarnation of Elijah, i agree. But because he came in the spirit and power of Elijah could it be that this was the Elijah that was prophesied for that time.

 

[Scribe]

I don't see any indication that the two witnesses are having evangelistic crusades.

 

[Corban]

A number of simple points have, up to now, been overlooked.

The first, and most glaring, is that the word "Witness" in the Greek, "martoos", means, "one who witnessed something and will testify of its truth even under threat of death". This means that whoever these two men are, they were witnesses to something that happened before

The second thing overlooked is that while Elijah is still alive, Moses died. Since BOTH Witnesses are killed, Moses is excluded because Hebrews 9:27 says that it is given for a man to die ONCE and then judgment. There is not a single exception to this rule in the whole Bible. Even if the miracles and "signs" done by the Two Witnesses make it look like Moses, it cannot be so.

The third thing is that no incarnation, or re-incarnation is implied by any scripture. The plain language concerning John Baptist and Elijah is ...

1. Elijah came once and will come again before the day of vengeance. If Elijah is alive and been waiting in heaven, this presents no problems. Elijah is Elijah. He came once when Israel was worshiping idols, and he comes again when Israel allow the Beast to set up his idol in the Holy of Holies
2. John did not come AS Elijah. He came in the SAME SPIRIT that Elijah came in. So also did the prophets of old testify - IN THE SAME (HOLY) Spirit.

The fourth is that we can speculate, and even supply evidence for our thesis as to who the Two Witnesses are, but scripture stayed silent as to who they are. We can argue, but the final answer is that scripture was silent. Here is my evidence extrapolated.

The world is made of three peoples at the time of the coming of our Lord Jesus and the end of the age. (i) The Church, (ii) Israel, and (iii) The Nations (or Gentiles). The Church does not come into the picture. Either they are removed as Luke 21:36 and Revelation 3:10 say, OR they are DEFEATED by the Beast as Revelation 13:7 says. But the other TWO are intimately involved and their precarious situation has happened before.

Israel:
At the time of Ahab, who made marriage with a Gentile and led Israel to worship her gods, Israel embraced strange gods. Elijah spoke for God against the powerful Ahab and and the evil Jezebel. He was able to shut heaven fro 3.5 years. Later, he is overcome by Jezebel's threat and flees - only to meet God. Elijah was a WITNESS of Israel's evil and he was the agent that God used to chastise Israel, but he was ultimately overcome. The first Witness of Revelation 11 is at the center of Israel - the Temple of Jerusalem. The Beast has put his idol effigy in the Holy of Holies and Israel (minus the Remnant) will embrace the Abomination of Desolation - a Gentile demon god. Elijah was a prophet to Israel, about Israel's breakeing the Law and was a WITNESS of God's chastisement on them.

The Nations:
The Great Tribulation has two unique features. (i) It is a time like never before, and (ii) it is UNIVERSAL. That is, it encompasses the WHOLE earth. The situation on earth as the Great Tribulation dawns is this; (i) Jesus Christ, and His salvation, will have been preached for 2,000 years. The world will choose the Beast as their Leader and Savior. (ii) It will be as the days of Noah and as the days of Lot. There is only ONE MAN who WITNESSED this and who is STILL ALIVE - Enoch.

While Elijah appeals to Israel to repent of their allegiance to the Beast and to keep the Law by causing the idol in the Temple to be removed, Enoch can testify of the last great UNIVERSAL judgment of God over the whole earth - the flood of Noah's time.

 

[Corban]

I don't see any indication that the two witnesses are having evangelistic crusades.

Correct. It is given to the Church to preach the gospel and suffer for it. The Two Witnesses kill their opponents. Not only are they preaching what they WITNESSED, not only is there no evidence of evangelism, but they could not be preaching reconciliation. The message of Christ is that His disciples will be killed for their testimony. These Two Witnesses KILL opponents.

 

[iamsoandso]

https://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/32-52.htm

 

[KT88]

There are many who mistakenly believe that Elijah came to earth as John the Baptist. But when the angel Gabriel spoke to John’s father Zachariah, he said that John would come “in the spirit and power of Elijah”, not as an incarnation of Elijah: And he shall go before Him [Christ] in the spirit and power of Elias [Elijah], to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

John the B. was not intended to be an incarnation of Elijah he was intended to be the fulfillment of the prophecies stated of Elijah, big difference.

Jesus proclaimed him as Elijah, also as the messenger. Matthew declares him as The voice. John was a fulfillment of the prophecies in Isaiah 40:3, Malachi 3:1 and Malachi 4:5-6.

Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Mat 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Mat 17:12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.”

It's a blatant disregard of Jesus' statement to claim otherwise.

 

[Scribe]

John the B. was not intended to be an incarnation of Elijah he was intended to be the fulfillment of the prophecies stated of Elijah, big difference.

Jesus proclaimed him as Elijah, also as the messenger. Matthew declares him as The voice. John was a fulfillment of the prophecies in Isaiah 40:3, Malachi 3:1 and Malachi 4:5-6.

Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Mat 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Mat 17:12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.”

It's a blatant disregard of Jesus' statement to claim otherwise.

I have not decided on this topic yet myself. I think that there might be additional end time fulfillment.
I have heard some arguments by theologians that Jesus statements Elijah will come, and Elijah has already come could mean that both can be true.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It's a blatant disregard of Jesus' statement to claim otherwise.

Jesus called John "Elijah" metaphorically. So unless you can prove that the Bible supports reincarnation (a Hindu concept) you should try and interpret Scripture properly.

 

[oldethennew]

some of us know for sure that it' could NOT be a literal 'Elijah or a reincarnated Elijah, or a 'from heaven Elijah!
for it is written:
JOHN 3:13.
And no man has ascended up to heaven, but HE that came down from heaven,
even The Son of man which is in heaven.

 

[Corban]

some of us know for sure that it' could NOT be a literal 'Elijah or a reincarnated Elijah, or a 'from heaven Elijah!
for it is written:
JOHN 3:13.
And no man has ascended up to heaven, but HE that came down from heaven,
even The Son of man which is in heaven.

Not quite. Enoch did not see death and is not on earth as far as we know. Elijah was Raptured to heaven. John 3:13 must be taken in context. Nicodemus, a leader of Israel, did not know about the rebirth, so our Lord Jesus informed him that the plan was hatched and discussed only in heaven, and that He is the only man who can testify, seeing as He was in heaven.

Note the difficulty that the verse presents otherwise. It says, as you quoted,

13 "And no man hath ascended (past tense) up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in (present tense) heaven."

• At the time of speaking our Lord Jesus had not ascended to heaven, but had come down from heaven
• At the time of speaking the Son of man was NOT "IN" heaven

I don't like to paraphrase, but in light of the context, it means this;

"No man has ascended to discover this new birth, but He that came down from heaven has discovered it while in heaven ... ."

John presents Christ in His deity as a divine-man to prepare the way for God to get into man (Jn.20:30-31). Thus, as God, Jesus was eternal (withou beginning), and as Man He was the firstborn of creation (Col.1:15).

But yet, there is another problem. Nicodemus was learned in the Torah and Tanakh. He would have been familiar with Adam in front of the Tree of Life. He must have asked himself; "What would have happened if Adam was obedient and ate from the Tree of Life? Would he not have received God through the mouth and been reborn in spirit?"

Makes one think eh?

 

[oldethennew]

These ALL died in Faith', not having received (the promises), but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them,
and 'embraced them', and 'confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth'.
This and other scriptures such as the Law of the Firstborn, disagree with this supposition...

 

[Scribe]

Not quite. Enoch did not see death and is not on earth as far as we know. Elijah was Raptured to heaven. John 3:13 must be taken in context. Nicodemus, a leader of Israel, did not know about the rebirth, so our Lord Jesus informed him that the plan was hatched and discussed only in heaven, and that He is the only man who can testify, seeing as He was in heaven.

Note the difficulty that the verse presents otherwise. It says, as you quoted,

13 "And no man hath ascended (past tense) up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in (present tense) heaven."

• At the time of speaking our Lord Jesus had not ascended to heaven, but had come down from heaven
• At the time of speaking the Son of man was NOT "IN" heaven

I don't like to paraphrase, but in light of the context, it means this;

"No man has ascended to discover this new birth, but He that came down from heaven has discovered it while in heaven ... ."

John presents Christ in His deity as a divine-man to prepare the way for God to get into man (Jn.20:30-31). Thus, as God, Jesus was eternal (withou beginning), and as Man He was the firstborn of creation (Col.1:15).

But yet, there is another problem. Nicodemus was learned in the Torah and Tanakh. He would have been familiar with Adam in front of the Tree of Life. He must have asked himself; "What would have happened if Adam was obedient and ate from the Tree of Life? Would he not have received God through the mouth and been reborn in spirit?"

Makes one think eh?

The rebirth was prophesied by the prophets. Nicodemus being an expert in the prophets should have thought about these verses instead of acting like it was such a strange saying.
Ezek 36 26
English Standard Version
And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

 

[KT88]

Jesus called John "Elijah" metaphorically. So unless you can prove that the Bible supports reincarnation (a Hindu concept) you should try and interpret Scripture properly.

Jesus interpreted the scripture as related to John, as Elijah (not a literal return of Elijah, then or in the future), the voice and the messenger. That's why Jesus stated:

Mat 11:14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.

Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

You are not willing to accept "it" because the statements are in conflict with your theology.

 

[Corban]

These ALL died in Faith', not having received (the promises), but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them,
and 'embraced them', and 'confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth'.
This and other scriptures such as the Law of the Firstborn, disagree with this supposition...

I'm afraid that is not so. The Covenant of Promises was made to Abraham centuries after Enoch. No Promise was made to Enoch. "THese ALL" refers to those who received the Covenant of PROMISE - Abraham and his seed. Added to this, you cannot pit one scripture against another. It invaidates the whole Bible. You have to reconcile them, and verse 5 says; "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God."

Unless otherwise shown, Enoch did not see death.

 

[Corban]

The rebirth was prophesied by the prophets. Nicodemus being an expert in the prophets should have thought about these verses instead of acting like it was such a strange saying.
Ezek 36 26
English Standard Version
And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

I'm afraid you have read something into this verses and not taken it for what it says. Rebirth is an-other birth in the existing spirit of a man (Jn.3:6). Its result is that one becomes a son of God. It is reserved for BELIEVERS (Jn.1:12-13). Ezekiel 36:26 is addressed to Israel - "who are concluded by God in UNBELIEF" until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in (Rom.11:25-32). It is addressed to Israel, and APPLIED WHEN they are gathered from their diaspora (v.24). Here is the context. Ezekiel 36:24-27;

24 "For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."

The result of rebirth is to have eternal life (Jn.3:14-16). The result of having a new spirit will be that they "walk in God's statutes, keep His judgments and do them" .

Nicodemus could not have known of the rebirth. It was hatched in heaven and needed One from heaven to tell of it. And Ephesians 1:8-10 and 3:3-9 plainly say that the gospel of Christ was hid in ages past.

 

[Nehemiah6]

You are not willing to accept "it" because the statements are in conflict with your theology.

This has nothing to do with my theology. Let's go back to Malachi 4, and let's also be clear that the day of the LORD (the Great Tribulation and its aftermath) has not occurred as yet.

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. (Malachi 4:5,6)

But Elijah must return to earth BEFORE the Great Tribulation (which corresponds to "the day of the LORD"), therefore he does return during the preceding Tribulation period, which corresponds to the 3 1/2 year reign of the Antichrist, (and also the 3 1/2 years when there will be no rain on earth). Daniel's 70th week consists of 3 1/2 years of Tribulation followed by 3 1/2 years of the Great Tribulation (for a total of 7 years).

We need to be crystal clear that God NEVER contradicts Himself. Therefore Jesus (who is indeed God) could not possibly contradict Gabriel, who was sent by God. And Gabriel told Zachariah that John the Baptist would come in the spirit and power of Elijah. He did not say that Elijah would be born to Elizabeth but his name would now be John! That would be absurd. And that is exactly what Christ was telling the Jews. To all intents and purposes, John was doing exactly what Elijah would do in the future: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Jesus was DEFINITELY NOT teaching the doctrine of reincarnation, which would say that John was a reincarnation of Elijah. Furthermore, the Day of Grace corresponded to the ministries of John and Christ. The day of the LORD (a period of divine judgment) would come much later, and it is still in the future. And that is why the Lord Jesus Christ was careful to not include "the day of vengeance of our God" when He quoted from the book of Isaiah: ...To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. (Lk 4:9). But that is only a part of that verse in Isaiah. Here is the full verse: To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; (Isa 61:2)

The day of vengeance of our God = the day of the LORD = the Great Tribulation