Dogs Returning To Their Vomit

[mailmandan]

Luke 15:24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.

The father actually saw the prodigal son as dead when the prodigal son was away. If the prodigal son never returned, the father would have continued to view his prodigal son as dead. Unfortunately, that sometimes happens in real life as the Bible testifies. That's why the Bible warns us so that we don't make the same mistake as those people.

CONTEXT - All three parables in Luke 15 were in rebuke to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them." (vs. 2) Eternal IN-securists will try to use the parable of the prodigal son to prove that believers can lose their salvation by arguing that the prodigal son was spiritually alive, then spiritually died (lost his salvation) and was spiritually alive again (regained his salvation) from Luke 15:32 based on certain translations which read: ..thy brother was dead, and is alive AGAIN (KJV) ..for your brother was dead and is alive AGAIN (NKJV) ..this brother of yours was dead and is alive AGAIN (NIV)

Yet others will argue that in this parable, being made "alive AGAIN" foreshadows the "born AGAIN" experience that Jesus spoke of in John 3:3. Of course Jesus wasn't talking about being born again spiritually again and again. We are born once physically and born "again" once spiritually. I find it interesting that certain translations of Luke 15:32 simply say your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found (ESV); your brother was dead, but now he is alive. He was lost, but now he is found (NCV); this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found (NRS); this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live and was lost and has been found (NAS).

 

[mailmandan]

Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

CONTEXT. Now in regard to Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows ongoing, willful, continuous action. Lifestyle or bent of life. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9) *Hermeneutics.

Now if the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all and in Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here.

*NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled underfoot the Son of God and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved" and/or "lost their salvation." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.

Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

*In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse (and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So, the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.

In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to make believers/nominal Christians, not saved people: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So, after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a "professing" believer in this community of Hebrew believers, but later renounces his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received and trampling underfoot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with these Hebrew believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.

 

[mailmandan]

OSAS believers remind me of such people which they believe they cannot fall so they enjoy sin but they are not right with God. But they want to believe they cannot fall so they can enjoy sin, and worldly pleasures, and money, and material things, acting like the world, and have a no pressure life.

Typical straw man argument. Sinful lifestyles, living like the devil etc.. are not enjoyable to those who are truly born of God. (1 John 3:7-10) There are false teachers in the NOSAS camp who believe that Christ merely "initially" saves us by grace through faith apart from works (and they call that "initial" salvation) but then after that, they teach that works of faith are also a "part of salvation" after we have been saved by grace through faith. I call that "type 2 works salvation" or salvation by works at the back door and it's a false gospel.

But the Bible says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Notice in Philippians 2:12 that Paul said to "work out" your salvation and NOT "work for" your salvation. When we "work out" at the gym, we exercise to develop our body that we already have and not to get a body. Farmers "work out" the land, not in order to get the land, but to develop the land they already have. The Greek verb rendered "work out" means "to continually work to bring something to completion or fruition." We do this by actively pursuing the process of ongoing sanctification, which is the result of being set apart for God's work and involves the process of being conformed to the image of Christ.

This conforming to Christ involves the work of the person, but it is still God working in the believer to produce more of a godly character and life in the person who has already been justified by faith. In verse 13, Paul goes on to say, "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." Ongoing sanctification has no bearing on justification. That is, even if we don't live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ. (Romans 5:1) Where justification is a legal declaration that is instantaneous, ongoing sanctification is a process.

In regard to "fear and trembling," it pertains to a healthy fear of offending God through disobedience and a righteous awe and respect or reverence for Him. (Proverbs 1:7; Psalm 2:11; Psalm 34:9; Isaiah 66:2) Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church several years ago, I basically saw God as a tyrant who couldn't wait to punish me every time I messed up and throw me into hell for not being "good enough." That is an unhealthy fear of bondage and insecurity which is not from above!

Paul uses the same phrase "fear and trembling" in 2 Corinthians 7:15 in which he refers to Titus as being encouraged by the reception of him by the Corinthians "with fear and trembling," that is, with humility and respect for his position as a minister of Jesus Christ. In 1 Corinthians 2:3, we see that Paul himself came to the Corinthian church in "weakness and fear, and with much trembling" in regard to the huge responsibility and critical importance of the work in which he was engaged.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

CONTEXT - All three parables in Luke 15 were in rebuke to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them." (vs. 2) Eternal IN-securists will try to use the parable of the prodigal son to prove that believers can lose their salvation by arguing that the prodigal son was spiritually alive, then spiritually died (lost his salvation) and was spiritually alive again (regained his salvation) from Luke 15:32 based on certain translations which read: ..thy brother was dead, and is alive AGAIN (KJV) ..for your brother was dead and is alive AGAIN (NKJV) ..this brother of yours was dead and is alive AGAIN (NIV)

Yet others will argue that in this parable, being made "alive AGAIN" foreshadows the "born AGAIN" experience that Jesus spoke of in John 3:3. Of course Jesus wasn't talking about being born again spiritually again and again. We are born once physically and born "again" once spiritually. I find it interesting that certain translations of Luke 15:32 simply say your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found (ESV); your brother was dead, but now he is alive. He was lost, but now he is found (NCV); this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found (NRS); this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live and was lost and has been found (NAS).

Yes, because the father saw the son as dead while the prodigal son was away from the father. Fortunately, the prodigal son returned to the father is now acknowledged as a live with his relationship with his father restored.

If however, the son never returned, the father would still consider that prodigal dead and their relationship unrestored.

I don't know why OSAS believers ignore the flip side of what happens if the son didn't return.


🍹

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You're skipping some of Jesus' words! Jesus said that they received it AND enjoyed it for a while, meaning that they acted on them! Are you not aware that these are Jesus' own words and you're actually not paying attention to what He's saying because they don't scratch your itching ears? Please be careful.




The parable IS talking about Jesus and people who think they are His followers though. It's not talking about anyone else. If the bridegroom in the parable keeps them locked out, Jesus will also lock out people who no longer maintain their walk with Him in the Holy Spirit. That's what the parable means. I'm really surprised that you never picked up on that? How much clearer can it be???




I hate when people pretend to be victims. You're not a victim in this. The parable is pretty easy to understand. You just don't want to accept the full implication of what it means.

I was writing about the servant who began to beat the other servants when the master was away for too long. Then you wrote: "You mean to tell me that man, who continued in sin was saved? " That servant was saved for a while as Jesus has shown that the servant was doing his duties as he should for a while, but when he thought the master was away too long, that servant got careless and start to mistreat the other servants and fell away, no longer obeying the master. It's not difficult to see that.





I've posted MORE than just one Bible passage. But we'll go over what you posted.

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

This verse DOES HARMONIZE with the verses I've posted. A saved person can at some time know Jesus and keep the Lord's commandments. But if that persons stops, then this verse is true for that person.

1 John 3: 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

This verse also harmonizes with the verses I've posted. The key phrase is Whoever abides in Him does not sin. So long as a person abides in the Lord, they remain born of God, His seed remains in him, the Lord keeps the believer safe from Satan and all the other benefits of abiding in the Lord. See? Your verses and my verses don't conflict.



Morally upright is not the same as godliness though. It's only God's view of a person that counts. What defines a person as saved is God being in a person's life as their Lord and Savior and that person abiding in the Holy Spirit (who is the seal over us to show we belong to God).




John 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

How does this contradict the verses by Jesus that I posted? This verse also talks about abiding in Christ. The inference is that we ought to live continually believing in Him so that we will never die. Otherwise, if we stop living by believing in Him, we would certainly die because we've had left Him at that point. It will always come back to the fact that eternal life is in Him. It is not a separate feature.




When a person abides in Christ, God does give that person peace, not as the world does. That's why non-OSAS believers are calm. It doesn't matter if you think obeying God's command to abide in Him is work. God Himself doesn't see it that way and that's enough for us.


🎠

Amen wonderful read through God tells us it's everlasting life to abide in his doctrine

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes, because the father saw the son as dead while the prodigal son was away from the father. Fortunately, the prodigal son returned to the father is now acknowledged as a live with his relationship with his father restored.

If however, the son never returned, the father would still consider that prodigal dead and their relationship unrestored.

I don't know why OSAS believers ignore the flip side of what happens if the son didn't return.


🍹

The father knows well die for sure away from him he speaks the same tomhis disculles they they are alive from the dead who hear him

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Typical straw man argument. Sinful lifestyles, living like the devil etc.. are not enjoyable to those who are truly born of God. (1 John 3:7-10) There are false teachers in the NOSAS camp who believe that Christ merely "initially" saves us by grace through faith apart from works (and they call that "initial" salvation) but then after that, they teach that works of faith are also a "part of salvation" after we have been saved by grace through faith. I call that "type 2 works salvation" or salvation by works at the back door and it's a false gospel.

Notice in Philippians 2:12 that Paul said to "work out" your salvation and NOT "work for" your salvation. When we "work out" at the gym, we exercise to develop our body that we already have and not to get a body. Farmers "work out" the land, not in order to get the land, but to develop the land they already have. The Greek verb rendered "work out" means "to continually work to bring something to completion or fruition." We do this by actively pursuing the process of ongoing sanctification, which is the result of being set apart for God's work and involves the process of being conformed to the image of Christ.

This conforming to Christ involves the work of the person, but it is still God working in the believer to produce more of a godly character and life in the person who has already been justified by faith. In verse 13, Paul goes on to say, "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." Ongoing sanctification has no bearing on justification. That is, even if we don't live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ. (Romans 5:1) Where justification is a legal declaration that is instantaneous, ongoing sanctification is a process.

In regard to "fear and trembling," it pertains to a healthy fear of offending God through disobedience and a righteous awe and respect or reverence for Him. (Proverbs 1:7; Psalm 2:11; Psalm 34:9; Isaiah 66:2) Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church several years ago, I basically saw God as a tyrant who couldn't wait to punish me every time I messed up and throw me into hell for not being "good enough." That is an unhealthy fear of bondage and insecurity which is not from above!

Paul uses the same phrase "fear and trembling" in 2 Corinthians 7:15 in which he refers to Titus as being encouraged by the reception of him by the Corinthians "with fear and trembling," that is, with humility and respect for his position as a minister of Jesus Christ. In 1 Corinthians 2:3, we see that Paul himself came to the Corinthian church in "weakness and fear, and with much trembling" in regard to the huge responsibility and critical importance of the work in which he was engaged.

Isn't he talking about constant obedience though when he says work out your salvation ? That they've been obedient but now much more they need to get with it and begin doing what he's telling them to do ? Maybe obeying the lord shouldn't be considered " working for salvation" but faith when we hear and obey him believing what he said ....

 

[mailmandan]

Isn't he talking about constant obedience though when he says work out your salvation ? That they've been obedient but now much more they need to get with it and begin doing what he's telling them to do ? Maybe obeying the lord shouldn't be considered " working for salvation" but faith when we hear and obey him believing what he said ....

Believers obey the Lord out of faith because we are saved and we are saved FOR good works and not by them. (Ephesians 2:8-10) If we seek to obtain or maintain salvation based on the merits of our obedience/works, then it would be working for salvation.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

CONTEXT. Now in regard to Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows ongoing, willful, continuous action. Lifestyle or bent of life. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9) *Hermeneutics.

Yes, a saved person who falls away has stopped abiding in Christ and is resisting the work of the Holy Spirit in his life. Such a person had resisted being sanctified and is no longer righteous because righteousness is only found in Christ.

Now if the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all and in Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here.

Sanctification means to be made holy. It is a process, not a one time occurrence. So a person's sanctification can be stopped by that person if that is what they choose. Accounts of people falling away have already been made part of the Bible to show that it can happen. Those verses can't be ignored. They harmonize with the rest of Scripture.

If we don't stop the sanctification process and continue to yield to the Holy Spirits work, not quenching Him or grieving Him, He will be able to complete the process. So there's no contradiction here.

*NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled underfoot the Son of God and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved" and/or "lost their salvation." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.

In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to make believers/nominal Christians, not saved people: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

Why would the NT writer in Hebrews not talk about sanctification related to salvation??? The whole chapter is warning any saved person reading that chapter that falling away can happen. You can read that plainly without having to look up the Greek words for them and their individual meanings.

So, after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a "professing" believer in this community of Hebrew believers, but later renounces his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received and trampling underfoot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with these Hebrew believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.

No, the entire chapter is talking directly to saved people. Read the entire chapter over again. It's warning saved people. Here is a description of the people he's addressing

Hebrews 10:32 Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you endured in a great conflict full of suffering. 33 Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. 34 You suffered along with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions.

These believers are very much saved and the NT writer is directly warning them - not some imagined superficial believer that is not a genuine believer.

A fake believer doesn't have anything to fall away from so this warning is not for them. A genuine believer does have something to fall away from so this is why the warning is directed to them.


🍹

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Believers obey the Lord out of faith because we are saved and we are saved FOR good works and not by them. (Ephesians 2:8-10) If we seek to obtain or maintain salvation based on the merits of our obedience/works, then it would be working for salvation.

what I was saying is you were explaining this

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Do all things without murmurings and disputings: that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

is Paul telling them this because they don’t need to hear it because they have faith ? Or is he telling then this because they need to believe it ?

 

[Adstar]

I get the clear feeling that you don't really care about others.

Nope.. I am not going to play that game.. False accusations are used by people who are playing the person and no longer dealing with the topic of discussion.. unjustified attacks upon a persons character is a dirty tactic indeed.. So you are not undermining my beliefs you are undermining your own standing in this forum..

 

[Adstar]

You either believe it or you do not.

The moment you believe, you are given eternal life

If I can still die. that is not eternal life. it is called conditional life.

that has not changed since the begining of time, and it will not

I will say it again people must continue believing Jesus and trusting in the atonement of the LORD Jesus unto the moment of their deaths.. If you believe that a person can believe for a while and then denounce Jesus and disbelieve in His Atonement as still be saved then i fear for you..

 

[Cameron143]

CONTEXT - All three parables in Luke 15 were in rebuke to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them." (vs. 2) Eternal IN-securists will try to use the parable of the prodigal son to prove that believers can lose their salvation by arguing that the prodigal son was spiritually alive, then spiritually died (lost his salvation) and was spiritually alive again (regained his salvation) from Luke 15:32 based on certain translations which read: ..thy brother was dead, and is alive AGAIN (KJV) ..for your brother was dead and is alive AGAIN (NKJV) ..this brother of yours was dead and is alive AGAIN (NIV)

Yet others will argue that in this parable, being made "alive AGAIN" foreshadows the "born AGAIN" experience that Jesus spoke of in John 3:3. Of course Jesus wasn't talking about being born again spiritually again and again. We are born once physically and born "again" once spiritually. I find it interesting that certain translations of Luke 15:32 simply say your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found (ESV); your brother was dead, but now he is alive. He was lost, but now he is found (NCV); this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found (NRS); this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live and was lost and has been found (NAS).

It's all 1 parable. Shepherd...Son. Woman...Holy Spirit. Father...Father.

The parable shows the different aspects of the Godhead in salvation.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes, because the father saw the son as dead while the prodigal son was away from the father. Fortunately, the prodigal son returned to the father is now acknowledged as a live with his relationship with his father restored.

If however, the son never returned, the father would still consider that prodigal dead and their relationship unrestored.

I don't know why OSAS believers ignore the flip side of what happens if the son didn't return.


🍹

yes Jesus is giving a sermon there about repentance first he shows his part coming to get the lost sheep and searching for the coin and then he shows man’s part to repent and return to the father who’s waiting with open arms notice he never comes and bonds the wayward son and drags him back home because his son is free he was free to leave and he’s free to return

He hits rock bottom then remembers his fathers house is better than his current life he chose wrongly so the. He comes to repentance and decides to return to his fathers house

he doesn’t even make it all the way home but his loving Father was waiting and watching saw him from far away walking home . The. He runs to meet him overwhelms him with hugs and kisses

Notice the son is still repenting but the fsther is like he’s not even hearing him he’s just overjoyed that his lost son had returned who he’s always loved but who he never went and forced home he had his freedom all along and he decided to come home seeing his bad choice in life he reached the point of godly sorrow and a broken and contrite spirit God is waiting for in all of us

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Nope.. I am not going to play that game.

Do you believe the KJV has "jargon" in it? And if not, what would you think of the person who said that about your favorite Bible translation?

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, a saved person who falls away has stopped abiding in Christ and is resisting the work of the Holy Spirit in his life. Such a person had resisted being sanctified and is no longer righteous because righteousness is only found in Christ.

Show me the words, "stopped abiding in Christ" or "no longer righteous" in scripture. Righteousness is found only in Christ (Philippians 3:9) and either we are justified and will be glorified or else neither. (Romans 8:30)

Sanctification means to be made holy.

It is a process,

not a one time occurrence. So a person's sanctification can be stopped by that person if that is what they choose. Accounts of people falling away have already been made part of the Bible to show that it can happen. Those verses can't be ignored. They harmonize with the rest of Scripture.

We see initial sanctification in which we are set apart/made holy in standing before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 1:2 - To the church of God, which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus. That is a one-time occurrence.

Yet we also see progressive or ongoing sanctification in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4, - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor.

So, becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one-time occurrence, yet abstaining from sexual immorality is not a one-time occurrence. The believer possesses a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, an ongoing process of growth in practical, progressive holiness which becomes increasingly evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives.

If we don't stop the sanctification process and continue to yield to the Holy Spirits work, not quenching Him or grieving Him, He will be able to complete the process.

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. As Greek scholar AT Robertson said, "Who of us has not sometimes grieved the Holy Spirit?"

Ephesians 4 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Also, in Ephesians 1:13-14, we read - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. No mention of becoming un-sealed.

So, there's no contradiction here.

Once again, if the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation, then we DO have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all and in Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here.

Why would the NT writer in Hebrews not talk about sanctification related to salvation??? The whole chapter is warning any saved person reading that chapter that falling away can happen. You can read that plainly without having to look up the Greek words for them and their individual meanings.

The writer of Hebrews does talk about sanctification in relation to salvation in Hebrews 10:10 and Hebrews 10:14 and said, "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." So, if sanctified in Hebrews 10:29 means such a person was saved and lost their salvation, then we have a clear-cut contradiction and there are no contradictions in God's word. Context is key and vss. 7-9 clears up any further confusion.

No, the entire chapter is talking directly to saved people.

Read the entire chapter over again. It's warning saved people. Here is a description of the people he's addressing

All the NT letters are addressed to believers, but that does not mean that everyone in these very large groups of "professing" believers are all genuine believers. If you attended a very large church on Sunday and the Pastor greeted the congregation that morning with, "good morning brothers and sisters in Christ" would you automatically assume that everyone who attended church that Sunday morning must be a genuine brother or sister in Christ because of that greeting? The Bible talks about wheat and tares and the tares outnumber the wheat.

There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are superficial believers mixed together throughout the book of Hebrews. Hence, the warnings: Hebrews 3:8-14; 4:1-3; 6:7-9; 10:39; 12:15 etc.. We also see genuine believers and superficial believers mixed together throughout various churches and throughout various Christian forum sites.

Hebrews 10:32

Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you endured in a great conflict full of suffering. 33 Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. 34 You suffered along with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions.

Jude 1:5 - Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people (the Israelites) out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. Did you see that? DID NOT BELIEVE. Not later stopped believing.

These believers are very much saved and the NT writer is directly warning them

- not some imagined superficial believer that is not a genuine believer.

Genuine believers are very much saved, but not superficial believers.

A fake believer doesn't have anything to fall away from so this warning is not for them.

A genuine believer does have something to fall away from so this is why the warning is directed to them.

Superficial believers merely taste of the Spirit, (Hebrews 6:4-5) but they do not drink into one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:13) Superficial believers draw back to perdition and do not believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:39)

 

[mailmandan]

what I was saying is you were explaining this

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Do all things without murmurings and disputings: that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

is Paul telling them this because they don’t need to hear it because they have faith ? Or is he telling then this because they need to believe it ?

Sure these believers need to hear it in regard to pursuing the process of ongoing sanctification, which is the result of being set apart for God's work and involves the process of being conformed to the image of Christ. In verse 13, Paul goes on to say, "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Let me try it this way:
If God wills something, does it always come to pass?

No

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Ok, so if the will of God always comes to pass, and it is the will of God that all be saved, why don't all get saved?

It does not always come to pass. Nor did he say it did. So why would you ask such a question?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Or maybe it’s just an ongoing conversation between two people coming from different understandings trying to work through it.

are they though?