Does man have a freewill ?

[reneweddaybyday]

Do you think that hearing the word of God caused a change in you? If so, did this change result in and new relationship with God himself?

Ephesians 1 explains what occurred better than I can ...

Ephesians 1:12-13 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

after we heard, we trusted ... after we trusted, we believed ... then sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.


Cousin shared the gospel of Christ with my husband and me. The gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation. Cousin took out his bible and showed us ... we heard the Word of God ... we saw what was written ... God gave the increase.
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[Everlasting-Grace]

You argue endlessly about whatever suits you because you're not trying to convince anybody of anything...

And here I had respect for you,

or so you say. I am not convinced. If you are the person who was originally eternally gratefull then you are the first person I recall arguing with me trying to prove that you were right and I was wrong about something after I first joined 10 years ago... but you can keep pretending you're not trying to convince anybody of anything. It doesn't look like anything has changed except your name. I have not read the full exchange between you and Cameron, and why you would expect me to get involved in it anyway, and admit to something I do not know, is ridiculous. I barely engage with you because of your general attitude. My guess is you've received many infractions over the years because of it. I also believe that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to His purpose.

Once again, I am not discussing doctrine. I am discussing being falsely accused.

Discernment in this chatroom is at an all time low

I am done. It is evident than people are not going to admit wrong. so I can not respect them. so moving on

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

We all agree, already! No need to continue!

whatever dude

Your right, no need to continue

no humility here. people make claims. they get questioned of those claims. theyn they change their claims and deny they even said something/

and the one trying to hold them accountable gets attacked.

good day!

 

[Magenta]

As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.”

2 Tim 2: 25

God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, 26and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

Romans 8:5-8

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. 8Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

1 Cor 2:14-16

14The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 16“For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Look man I can go on and on and on with this because I'm not pushing a "dark theology", I'm simply repeating scripture that you very openly reject. It's Gods word that teaches what you call "dark" and reject while claiming yourself a Christian and seeming to imply others that believe this are not. It's you that seems completely blind to the 2 different and VERY distinct natures that a man can have. It's you that seems ignorant of spiritual truths unveiled when we are born again. If you think we aren't ALL born broken haters of God unable to please Him, then I have to conclude you don't know the difference in being born of the flesh and being reborn of the Spirit. Anyone who has been born again in truth KNOWS the difference and will testify of it, yet you openly reject it and call it "Dark."

So you said "God does not gift or "grant" us repentance", yet the bible says "God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth", Acts 11:18 ""When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”
Acts 5:31 31God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

So who should I listen to? You or Gods word? I know who I trust more. You completely contradict scripture to make your point. Is that not a red flag to you?

Excellent as usual, Jim, just love your contributions and your heart for God! Thank you also for the inspiration .

There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. Romans 3:11-12 God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will. 2 Tim 2: 25-26 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8:5-8

 

[brightfame52]

Folks by nature our will isn't free from the will of the devil, 2 Tim 2:25-26

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Look what Paul writes of every natural unregenerate person: Eph 2:3

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

The word desires is the same word will, our will conforms to the devils will by nature, we walk according to his will Eph 2:2

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

That word according is a strong word meaning

1. down from, through out
2. according to, toward, along, in agreement with or corresponding with !

As natural men our will is a slave to the devil and our sinful nature. Our nature is corrupt and our will is servant to our deceitful lusts Eph 4:22

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; By nature our will isnt spiritually free. 2

 

[reneweddaybyday]

As natural men our will is a slave to the devil and our sinful nature. Our nature is corrupt and our will is servant to our deceitful lusts Eph 4:22

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; By nature our will isnt spiritually free.

I love this section in Ephesians which gives instruction to put off the old man and put on the new man. The lusts of who we were in Adam are deceitful because they convince us that something is beneficial to us ... but in actuality that "something" is toxic ... like the serpent beguiled Eve and convinced her that what she "saw" was "good for food", "pleasant to the eyes", and something "to be desired to make one wise" ... nothing new under the sun all these many years later.

From Pastor Alan Carr:

The believer has received a change of life that results in a change in his walk. We are called upon to "put off ", once for all, the ways of the old man who is just growing worse day by day. (Note: The words "is corrupt " are present tense and speak of a corpse that lies rotting in the sun. Each day brings with it more evidence that the corpse is dead!) We are called upon to "put on ", once for all, the new man, who had been created in righteousness and holiness. When the new believer comes to faith in Jesus, he learns a new way of life, v. 19-20! He has experienced a change of heart that results in a profound change of mind, v. 23! God puts a new desire within His children that makes them want to live differently than they used to live!​

Also ... John MacArthur:

​

"You can tell a lot about people in our society by the way they dress. From baseball players to bus drivers, from postal carriers to policemen, people wear the uniform of their profession. Who we are determines what we wear, and failing to “dress the part” can sometimes have embarrassing consequences. Many years ago a very wealthy man in a Southern California town was found wandering around the local country club wearing shabby clothes. He was promptly seized by security guards and charged with vagrancy—even though he owned the country club. He had failed to dress consistent with who he was...Christians must dress themselves spiritually in accordance with their new identity. They have died with Christ and risen to new life. Salvation thus produces a two-sided obligation for believers. Negatively, they must throw off the garment of the old, sinful lifestyle, as Paul pointed out in Col 3:5-9a. Positively, they must put on the lifestyle of the new man." ​

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[brightfame52]

The false teaching of mans freewill in the matter of salvation especially is actually a denial of the Gospel of Gods Grace. A few reasons why I say that. It denies that God is God. It promotes the false concept that God cant do what He wants with man in salvation unless man allows Him to, Yet the God of scripture is described here Ps 115:3

But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased. The word pleased here means:

will, desire

Ps 135:6

6 Whatsoever the Lord pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places.

Salvation is by the Sovereign will and Grace of God Eph 1:4-5,11

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Whatever God pleases to do He does, because God is God, yet the false doctrine of mans freewill denies this !

Dan 4:34-35

34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? 3

 

[brightfame52]

@reneweddaybyday

I love this section in Ephesians which gives instruction to put off the old man and put on the new man. The lusts of who we were in Adam are deceitful because they convince us that something is beneficial to us ... but in actuality that "something" is toxic ... like the serpent beguiled Eve and convinced her that what she "saw" was "good for food", "pleasant to the eyes", and something "to be desired to make one wise" ... nothing new under the sun all these many years later.

Thats written to the regenerated believer, not the natural man who is dead in sin and under the control of darkness

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Thats written to the regenerated believer, not the natural man who is dead in sin and under the control of darkness

the "regenerated believer" is told to "put off the old man":

Ephesians 4:

20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts

to the extent the "regenerated believer" does not put off the old man, he or she can be drawn away through the deceitful lusts.

Praise God for His great love and His great grace in providing the new life ... the new man the believer is told to put on:

Ephesians 4:

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

27 Neither give place to the devil.

28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

In reading through the pages of this thread one might question whether those who claim to be born again believers are actually born again ... or have they just not put off the old man.

you are free to live in old man ... but why would someone want to live in the condemned when the completely new, righteous and holy is available?
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[brightfame52]

@reneweddaybyday

the "regenerated believer" is told to "put off the old man":

Yeah, not the natural man. The natural man is a slave to sin, dead in sin, he has no freewill. Its a will that is enslaved to sin

 

[GWH]

@reneweddaybyday



Yeah, not the natural man. The natural man is a slave to sin, dead in sin, he has no freewill. Its a will that is enslaved to sin

DOE #23. Romans 6:15-23 describes salvation/election in terms of being slaves to whom one willingly obeys,
whether to sin or to obedience of God’s teaching that leads to righteousness,
which results in eternal life “in Christ Jesus our Lord” (cf. #10).

 

[brightfame52]

DOE #23. Romans 6:15-23 describes salvation/election in terms of being slaves to whom one willingly obeys,
whether to sin or to obedience of God’s teaching that leads to righteousness,
which results in eternal life “in Christ Jesus our Lord” (cf. #10).

The unregenerate lost is a slave to sin. Until we are saved, we will always obey our master sin. Jesus has to set one free from slavery to sin by redemption/salvation.

 

[GWH]

The unregenerate lost is a slave to sin. Until we are saved, we will always obey our master sin. Jesus has to set one free from slavery to sin by redemption/salvation.

So you opine, but here is what Paul teaches regarding salvation/election (s/e):

1. Romans 1:16 says the Gospel reveals that (s/e) is for “everyone who believes”, both Jew and Gentile.

2. Romans 1:17 describes s/e as “righteousness from God” that is by faith “from first to last” or from conversion until the end of sanctification.

3. Romans 2:4 teaches that God’s kindness or patience with sinners is meant to lead them toward repentance, which implies that sinners are able to repent because of God’s leading.

4. Romans 2:5 warns that those who do not repent but instead stubbornly resist God’s leading are storing up wrath against themselves for the day when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed, which implies that God enables sinners to repent–or not (cf. Deut. 30:19).

 

[reneweddaybyday]

the "regenerated believer" is told to "put off the old man"

Yeah, not the natural man. The natural man is a slave to sin, dead in sin, he has no freewill. Its a will that is enslaved to sin

the born again believer who does not "put off the old man" behaves the same as the natural man and, while the born again believer will not die the second death, he or she is in bondage to sin even though, in all actuality, sin should hold no sway over him or her.

This also is written to born again believers:

Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

the born again believer yields [Greek paristēmi = present, provide] his or her members as instruments of unrighteousness ... yikes!!!

The word "members" is translated from the Greek word melos and refers to a limb or member of the body. In Rom 6:13, the word is in the plural and it refers to the members of body as the seat of the desires and passions.

There are many, many verses directed to the born again believer wherein God warns the believer against yielding to sin. God instructs the born again believer to yield [present] his or her body as instruments of righteousness unto God.

do you know and/or acknowledge that, brightfame52? If you don't know, I will be happy to provide some verses for you. If you do know, yet you do not acknowledge God's warning and instruction ... yikes!!!

 

[DeepSeeker]

No One understands anything in The Bible except Those who have spent a great effort to study for Themselves; not from Others.
Can others be a help? Certainly. However, They had better have put The effort into learning what is REALLY SAID in The Bible scriptures!

To many simply repeat what They have heard from Others !

I once had One say to Me: My Pastor said. To which I replied: "Have You read It. "No But ---- .My Pastor said mean little!! Whwat does The Spirit say ? ?

 

[Cameron143]

No One understands anything in The Bible except Those who have spent a great effort to study for Themselves; not from Others.
Can others be a help? Certainly. However, They had better have put The effort into learning what is REALLY SAID in The Bible scriptures!

To many simply repeat what They have heard from Others !

I once had One say to Me: My Pastor said. To which I replied: "Have You read It. "No But ---- .My Pastor said mean little!! Whwat does The Spirit say ? ?

That sounds like what others have said.

 

[Blade]

That sounds like what others have said.

Haha.. sorry man this made me haha laugh! I haha wouldn't have said it but.. spot on mate...

Free will.. since I can remember no one but no one tells me what to do.. no one. At the end.. "Your name is in My Book..welcome". was that really my free will that choice? I DON'T CARE! He found me.....pfft I wanna go home really.. yet not my will yours be done..let it be written.. help me to be a great witness for you lord..

 

[brightfame52]

The false teaching of mans freewill in the matter of salvation denies mans spiritual inability in that by nature he is dead to God.

Sure man has a physical life, but naturally he has no spiritual life, being alienated from the life of God Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Coupled with this alienation from the life of God is a darkened understanding, and blindness of heart

The word alienated means:

1. to be shut out from one's fellowship and intimacy

Paul wrote to the Ephesians that prior to their quickening, they were dead in sin Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

The word dead nekros:

1. 1. destitute of life, without life, inanimate
2. metaph.
   1. spiritually dead
      
      1. destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins
      2. inactive as respects doing right
   2. destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative

All the above applies to us by nature spiritually

Notice inactive as regards doing right, that is spiritually. It agrees with Rom 3:12

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Now being dead spiritually to God, inactive, how can a person be free to do the good things like hearing the word of God, understanding it, faith in God, repentance toward God.

Freewill denies being dead to God spiritually by nature.

 

[brightfame52]

So you opine, but here is what Paul teaches regarding salvation/election (s/e):

1. Romans 1:16 says the Gospel reveals that (s/e) is for “everyone who believes”, both Jew and Gentile.

2. Romans 1:17 describes s/e as “righteousness from God” that is by faith “from first to last” or from conversion until the end of sanctification.

3. Romans 2:4 teaches that God’s kindness or patience with sinners is meant to lead them toward repentance, which implies that sinners are able to repent because of God’s leading.

4. Romans 2:5 warns that those who do not repent but instead stubbornly resist God’s leading are storing up wrath against themselves for the day when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed, which implies that God enables sinners to repent–or not (cf. Deut. 30:19).

The unregenerate is a servant of sin, a slave to sin. Even the regenerate sometimes comes under the captivity of sin and serve it, so its 100 times fold true of the unregenerate. Paul as a regenerated person with a godly nature wrote Rom 7:14-25

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Now does this sound like he freewill ? He wrote, with the flesh he serves the law of sin. Now thats a spiritual man speaking, so just think if he was only in the flesh as the ones depicted in Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

No, they cannot serve God, or please God in any shape or form, they are sold 100% under the power of sin

 

[brightfame52]

the born again believer who does not "put off the old man" behaves the same as the natural man and, while the born again believer will not die the second death, he or she is in bondage to sin even though, in all actuality, sin should hold no sway over him or her.

This also is written to born again believers:

Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

the born again believer yields [Greek paristēmi = present, provide] his or her members as instruments of unrighteousness ... yikes!!!

The word "members" is translated from the Greek word melos and refers to a limb or member of the body. In Rom 6:13, the word is in the plural and it refers to the members of body as the seat of the desires and passions.

There are many, many verses directed to the born again believer wherein God warns the believer against yielding to sin. God instructs the born again believer to yield [present] his or her body as instruments of righteousness unto God.

do you know and/or acknowledge that, brightfame52? If you don't know, I will be happy to provide some verses for you. If you do know, yet you do not acknowledge God's warning and instruction ... yikes!!!

Yeah, not the natural man. The natural man is a slave to sin, dead in sin, he has no freewill. Its a will that is enslaved to sin