Do you pray for the lost? Then welcome to Calvinism

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dcontroversal said:
How do you guys deal with the following verse....

The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.
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God foreknew that many would reject Him. Scripture also says that He created hell for the devil and his angels, yet he said that hell would be populated by man.

"Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied" (Proverbs 27:20).

God still makes the offer of 'whomsover will may come" even though He knows they won't, just as He presented the Kingdom to Israel even though He knew they would not receive it through His death.
 
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
God foreknew that many would reject Him. Scripture also says that He created hell for the devil and his angels, yet he said that hell would be populated by man.

"Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied" (Proverbs 27:20).

God still makes the offer of 'whomsover will may come" even though He knows they won't, just as He presented the Kingdom to Israel even though He knew they would not receive it through His death.
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My reply would be....

MANY are called but few chosen.

NOTE the word MANY is NOT ALL......

How would you deal with that verse?
 
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Hevosmies said:
Let me throw that right back at you:

Why pray for the lost, when God has already predestinated who will be saved and who wont? Our prayers wont affect it one bit.

Btw: The Bible tells us to pray for ALL men, God wants ALL MEN to be saved. Contrary to what calvinism teaches.
(It says ALL MEN, not all KINDS of men, or all ELECT men. Thats just adding to scripture)
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I always watch these type threads to see if they evolve to the obvious question,,," There's a grandfather a grandmother.a father,and a mother and a father and mother of five children. The grandson who is the son and father of the five children is a husband and a preacher, which of his family members does he pray for and which ones does he not?" If it's kings and such it's one thing but if our own loved ones it's another.
 
How many people here know any calvinist street preachers? How many know calvinist churches that run bus ministries? How many know calvinist churches that go evangelizing weekly as a church?

I know not ONE! Granted this is anecdotal evidence. But its clear that this kind of doctrine that its already decided who is saved WOULD lead to apathy and lack of interest in evangelizing, which is why worldwide pentecostals are dominating in the spreading of the gospel, say what you will about em. Bettter pentecostal than pagan, amen?

The work I see calvinists MOST involved in is "defending the faith" a.k.a debating:
(Note: Debating according to calvinist philosophy is pointless, their opponent is predestinated to be a non-calvinist anyway. Similarly debating heretics is useless, God has just predestinated them to be a heretic)
Btw Can you imagine Elijah debating the prophets of ba'al? "How can we come together as a community and understand each other better. I respect you guys for being consistent in your beliefs!"
I think not!
 
Hevosmies said:
(Note: Debating according to calvinist philosophy is pointless, their opponent is predestinated to be a non-calvinist anyway.
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I think you do not understand predestination.

What you say is so called "lazy reason sophism", its neither predestination nor calvinism.
 
Hevosmies said:
How many people here know any calvinist street preachers? How many know calvinist churches that run bus ministries? How many know calvinist churches that go evangelizing weekly as a church?

I know not ONE! Granted this is anecdotal evidence. But its clear that this kind of doctrine that its already decided who is saved WOULD lead to apathy and lack of interest in evangelizing, which is why worldwide pentecostals are dominating in the spreading of the gospel, say what you will about em. Bettter pentecostal than pagan, amen?

The work I see calvinists MOST involved in is "defending the faith" a.k.a debating:
(Note: Debating according to calvinist philosophy is pointless, their opponent is predestinated to be a non-calvinist anyway. Similarly debating heretics is useless, God has just predestinated them to be a heretic)
Btw Can you imagine Elijah debating the prophets of ba'al? "How can we come together as a community and understand each other better. I respect you guys for being consistent in your beliefs!"
I think not!
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Why would a Calvinist become a missionary, subject their wife and children to a diseased culture, threats, and suffering for the sake of the gospel if God has already elected those He would save?

Here's a typical response? "Well, we've been asked to by our Lord whether it makes sense to us or not. His ways are higher than our ways..."
 
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dcontroversal said:
How do you guys deal with the following verse....

The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.
Click to expand...


In my case, I believe Him..... I have been nothing bringing down something, but only because of God using me and working through me as a willing vessel.

His mind is not our mind, and His ways are not our ways. Believe He is in control and He does all out of love; I do.
 
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BaptistBibleBeliever said:
Calvin taught us that it is acceptable to burn our enemies at the stake . . .
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Hey BB...….I hope you see the referenced Authority is Jesus Christ in my post. I know nothing of any of the sects calling themselves Christian or Jew…….I believe Jesus.
 
dcontroversal said:
How do you guys deal with the following verse....

The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.
Click to expand...

Our Father also has declared He has created some just to show His wrath. I have a personal understanding of this, but most would not understand.

He also declares , so what if I justify the ungodly."

God's ways are not our ways and His mind is notour mind.
 
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JaumeJ said:
Hey BB...….I hope you see the referenced Authority is Jesus Christ in my post. I know nothing of any of the sects calling themselves Christian or Jew…….I believe Jesus.
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Yes, simply quoting does not mean that I am calling you out . . . just adding to the thought of what Calvin "gave us" . . . I prefer Jesus Who "gave Himself for us . . ."
 
JaumeJ said:
Our Father also has declared He has created some just to show His wrath. I have a personal understanding of this, but most would not understand.

He also declares , so what if I justify the ungodly."

God's ways are not our ways and His mind is notour mind.
Click to expand...
He certainly created Satan and the Antichrist to show His wrath to. I do believe that those two are 'elected' to their fate. I also believe that Israel is 'elected' to be God's chosen people.
 
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
Yes, simply quoting does not mean that I am calling you out . . . just adding to the thought of what Calvin "gave us" . . . I prefer Jesus Who "gave Himself for us . . ."
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I am with you. I know nothing of Calvinism except it is said they are strictly OSAS. When I heard that, I was scared off of even thinking about learning more....God bless you. I thought something was wonky there…...it was I.
 
trofimus said:
Your ideas about calvinism and generally about other Christians, about other views and theologies. I noticed several times before.
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Basically I don't like any doctrine that would steal any person's zeal to want to witness to others. Calvinism quashes that desire as being totally unnecessary.

I don't have any problems with Christians -- just those that play one on the internet.
 
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JaumeJ said:
I am with you. I know nothing of Calvinism except it is said they are strictly OSAS. When I heard that, I was scared off of even thinking about learning more....God bless you. I thought something was wonky there…...it was I.
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I am not a Calvinist by any stretch but I do believe in eternal security. Calvinists, though, break it down like high exalted members of the Raccoon Lodge, only their members need apply.
 
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