Do u use contraception ?
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Intimacy enjoyed in the marriage is a good thing.
Should we not guard against legalism and rigidity?
We have a Puritan background in early America that brought us the witch trials.
blessings
Should we not guard against legalism and rigidity?
We have a Puritan background in early America that brought us the witch trials.
blessings
I'm not trying to add rules I promise . My point is , that if masturbation is satisfying the lust of the flesh , then what is intercourse with contraception ? It's not trying to make a baby is it ? Isn't that the purpose of intercourse ? Procreation ? That's all I'm trying to do , draw a parallel between masturbation and intercourse with contraception . I'm not saying I agree with that , I'm just saying that it seems logical to me that if masturbation is satisfying the lust of the flesh , then surely sex with contraception must also b that . Contraception was invented by man so that we could all have more sex without the consequence of pregnancy . Is that Biblical ? I don't think it is . Others may and will disagree I'm sure . That's fine by me .Intimacy enjoyed in the marriage is a good thing.
Should we not guard against legalism and rigidity?
We have a Puritan background in early America that brought us the witch trials.
blessings
Thanks for your reply , I think maybe my point is being lost . I'm simply trying to remind us all , but in particular those who would condemn a brother or sister for masturbation , that before they do that they should look at their own behaviour in regard to sex , even inside marriage . Contraception is not Biblical . It was invented by man so that we could all have intercourse without the consequence of pregnancy . So , if contraception isn't Biblical , and I'm guessing that very many married Christians use it , those who do should not b so quick to judge and condemn those who engage in masturbation .
That's all I'm trying to say , before u cast a stone......
I understand and agree with u . Whichever way we cut it , contraception isn't Biblical . I'm just trying to get people to stop and think about their own behaviour before they judge and condemn others , that all . I hope I'm able to make that clearNo, that isn't the only purpose for intimacy in the marriage, in Genesis we see we were created in a whole separate order from the animal kingdom we are steward and subdue.
Does this help?
Blessings
Some types of contraception also thin the lining of the uterus to prevent implantation, so they act as an abortificient.
There were contraceptive means practiced then, certain plants and practices that were helpful and used.I understand and agree with u . Whichever way we cut it , contraception isn't Biblical . I'm just trying to get people to stop and think about their own behaviour before they judge and condemn others , that all . I hope I'm able to make that clear
Song of Solomon isn't about being fruitful and multiplying.
blessings
It still doesn't mean that contraception is ok with God . Please understand , I'm not condemning anyone who uses contraception . I'm simply saying that before we judge and condemn others for their behaviour , we had better make sure that our own is perfect . That's all .There were contraceptive means practiced then, certain plants and practices that were helpful and used.
Song of Solomon isn't about being fruitful and multiplying.
blessings
I have heard the best contraceptive is an aspirin held firmly between the knees.
He gave us dominion in the 1st chapter, I am sure that includes the choice of use or non use.
This whether or not question leads me back to the thinking this is from the line of thinking we have a list of do's and do not's. Not so.
blessings
He gave us dominion in the 1st chapter, I am sure that includes the choice of use or non use.
This whether or not question leads me back to the thinking this is from the line of thinking we have a list of do's and do not's. Not so.
blessings
My thoughts on this. In the Greek version of the Old Testament, where it says 'thou shalt not covet' uses a word for lust or covet. It is a grammatically infected form of the same word Matthew 5:28 uses where it tells how Jesus warned that a man that looks at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.
We are talking about covetousness here. If I want to drive my own car, it's mine, so I don't covet it. If I am thankful to God and have a good attitude, it's okay to drive my car. If I want to have sex with my own wife, she's my own wife, so it's okay for me to desire that. If I were to use some kind of piece of rubber (no thank you) or something like that.... how does that somehow make it covetous? She's still MY wife birth control or not. She's not some other man's wife or someone else's daughter who is not married to me.
Does masturbation 'satisfy the lust of the flesh.' I'm not sure how that fits into the covetous concept one way or another. I can't find any specific scripture on masturbation, one way or another. Onan didn't raise up seed to his brother. That seems like coitus interruptus. Whether he used a bit of masturbation to make that happen, I don't know. Having sex with the woman, but not being willing to raise up seed to his brother... taking the sex... robbing her of the chance to have a child if he'd passed up on her and she'd gone to another relative... there is a lot going on her. But later theologians latched onto the non-reproductive sexual act aspect of it and named masturbation as 'Onanism.' I don't see anything in the passage that indicates that this is why God was displeased with him.
The man who has a seminal emission in the night in an Israeli war camp has to wash his clothes and be unclean until even and whatever it says in that passage. Normally, that might be an involuntary thing during sleep, but would the wording fit if the guy just did that. But the guy is unclean. A man and woman are unclean after the sexual act... assuming he 'finishes' in Jewish law, then they wash their whole body with water and are unclean until evening (which sounds to me like it encouraged couples having sex around 4 to 7 PM depending on the season of the year, about an our or a half hour before sundown so they didn't have to walk around a whole day unclean.) Being unclean isn't sinning. Jesus touched lepers.
I remember a guy in college thinking the verse about cutting off the hand or eye that causes you to sin being about masturbation, and he was glad it didn't say to chop off the other part. The idea of those verses being about masturbation had never occurred to me, and probably had more to do with his on guilt and conscience than the text. There is a verse about cutting of hand or foot, too.
I'm not going to tell someone to go masturbate, but I don't see from scripture that I have any right to condemn people for it, or for using birth control. I do see 'be fruitful and multiply' and if you have three kids between two people, that's multiplying. It doesn't say 'Thou shalt not use birth control.' If it's wrong to use birth control, then is it wrong for the married to abstain from sex during ovulation without a good reason (sickness, periods, etc.) because they are avoiding pregnancy? Is it wrong, then, to not have every sex every night because a couple could be missing out on having a baby...or every hour.... or during some sort of time where she would become pregnant at all times if she happened to ovulate during that interval. Of course, if everyone did that last approach, I think we might have all nearly girls because the XX cells hang around longer and the XYs swim faster. Is it wrong to delay marriage until you are ready to have a baby?
Basically, I think it helps to root the rational behind the questions to the teaching of scripture, not someone's thoughts or opinions about lust.
If I remember correctly, this was brought up in the Masterbation thread when others said masterbation is a sin.
I'm not going to argue on the point of contraception especially when that person tried to justify masterbation by saying it's no different than contraception.
Justifying our sin by other things doesn't change the sin.
Masterbation is what it is.... sexual sin.
I'm not going to argue on the point of contraception especially when that person tried to justify masterbation by saying it's no different than contraception.
Justifying our sin by other things doesn't change the sin.
Masterbation is what it is.... sexual sin.
I have heard the best contraceptive is an aspirin held firmly between the knees.
He gave us dominion in the 1st chapter, I am sure that includes the choice of use or non use.
This whether or not question leads me back to the thinking this is from the line of thinking we have a list of do's and do not's. Not so.
blessings
I agree. What happens should contraception use transforms into conception?
Do both players accept or condemn the third?
Does such a conception default into a one-only decision?
If so, who decides on taking one-only deciding?
Though I do not fully understand its meaning, the NIV states John 1:13 as:
"children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God."
It seems that married people do have a choice in becoming parents.
Also, we are told to marry in order to not burn with desire.
"But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion." (1st Cor. 7:9)
So I would suggest that marriage is not simply for gaining children but also to satisfy desires.
Also in Genesis 3 we are told that women are cursed to suffer in childbirth and men are to work by the sweat of their brow. Yet today most women and men enjoy the modern inventions of technology to ease these curses.
Is this wrong?
Thanks for sharing, Suze. Keep man-made contraceptive use a woman’s choice—and make good choices. It’s shared use is the responsibility of both. Take contraceptives with water-and responsibility..
For me, masturbation and contraceptive intercourse (screwing) is recreation.
To my knowledge, humans are the only species that screw for pleasure.
I choose not to place moral judgement. Not my choice.
‘That ‘S-word‘ will be only as vulgar as those who do S-wording.
When I taught myself aviation, it was clear to me, in order to fly safely, learn first how to crash safely. There will be crashes. A life lesson.
A good way to play with fire is being fireproof, but it’s still an EXTREMELY hot game. Fly safe.
That particular passage doesn't apply here, though. It's not about marriage and childbirth. It's about God choosing and granting faith and salvation rather than people deciding or willing it for themselves, which they cannot do. 'Children of God' simply refers to Christians -
Jn 1:9 This was the true Light that, coming into the world, enlightens every person. 10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, and yet the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own people did not accept Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of a man, but of God.
Perhaps but the chosen verbiage is referring to physical human birth and the existence of human choice.
It is being contrasted to spiritual birth and the sovereignty of God.
In other words, if human choice does not exist then neither does the contrast.