Do the non-elect have free-will?

[Niki7]

They are both believers.

Again, at the risk of boring everyone, we do not have elect believers and unelected believers.

The Bible does not present us with classes of believers.

I fully understand that is what you understand. I do not believe it to be a salvic issue but it is a confusing and unbiblical view.

 

[selahsays]

Again, at the risk of boring everyone, we do not have elect believers and unelected believers.

The Bible does not present us with classes of believers.

I fully understand that is what you understand. I do not believe it to be a salvic issue but it is a confusing and unbiblical view.

We d not have unelected believers—just Elect and free will.

 

[Niki7]

We d not have unelected believers—just Elect and free will.

oy...so now everyone is elected unless of course they are not. the dissonance is real

The Elect were chosen. Those with free will have the freedom to choose JESUS.

so, according to you, the elect were chosen and the rest of us folk have the freedom to choose. And there are many examples of you posting this same thing.

I’m sorry that you don’t understand. It’s really sad. Bye.

Yeah well this sarcastic comment does not pass for actual concern.

I'm not making this personal so maybe keep those kinds of comments to yourself.

 

[selahsays]

oy...so now everyone is elected unless of course they are not. the dissonance is real



so, according to you, the elect were chosen and the rest of us folk have the freedom to choose. And there are many examples of you posting this same thing.



Yeah well this sarcastic comment does not pass for actual concern.

I'm not making this personal so maybe keep those kinds of comments to yourself.

Why can you not understand that God only chose some, not all, people for His purpose. …like the apostles, the prophets, or whatever He needed them to accomplish for Him. Are you jealous of the Elect? Look at Paul. He was chosen. Was his life easy? heck no. And Jeremiah—he was called the weeping prophet. Why can’t you understand that? and by the way, no one knows whether or not they are Elect. God loves ALL of His children—ALL that believe in Jesus.

 

[Magenta]

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.

- Ephesians 1:3-6

Ephesians 1:3 + Philippians 2:13

From Ephesians 1:4-6

 

[selahsays]

Ephesians 1:3 + Philippians 2:13

From Ephesians 1:4-6

I absolutely love these scriptures!

 

[Niki7]

Why can you not understand that God only chose some, not all, people for His purpose. …like the apostles, the prophets, or whatever He needed them to accomplish for Him. Are you jealous of the Elect? Look at Paul. He was chosen. Was his life easy? heck no. And Jeremiah—he was called the weeping prophet. Why can’t you understand that? and by the way, no one knows whether or not they are Elect. God loves ALL of His children—ALL that believe in Jesus.

Perhaps God will leave you as you are. Not everyone wants to hear what is hard to hear and harder still to live. You will always find people to agree with you and especially when that understanding is popular or at least easier to stick a flag in and be content.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

But my choice has nothing to do with freedom.

That is really something. That is worthy of being a new thread on its own. Would love to hear more thought on this.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I 100% believe that we all have choice, but those choices are a slave to our natures, which are in sin or in the Spirit.

That is unbelievable. I am stunned that I haven't seen this concept presented in this way. I'm going to quote you with this set of brilliance.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

no that a dictionary quote not a bible quote.

Free choice had every man Going to hell

Hello Thunderr!

I am always looking to update my definition of freewill. I'm guilty of thinking that it is also the uninhibited, unrestricted right to choose. If there is a better, more Biblical definition, lay it on me!

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

IU disagree, our will is a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. At least that's what Jesus said. I'm going with him.

I think this is a stupid thing for Christians to fight over though, because you just call choice free will. I believe in choice too, we are told to choose and not be lukewarm. However our choices are still slaves to our nature, be it in sin or in the Spirit. That's why I don't like the term "free" will because Jesus tells us very specifically we are slaves of one or the other, and while it honestly does not matter what we call it, I just prefer to keep it as in line with our King as possible. That's what He says. That said I understand what you mean too so really don't need to battle you over it.

You have been given the ability to explain this concept extremely well. Would you happen to have written any papers on this topic that you might be willing to send to me?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

The Elect were chosen. Those with free will have the freedom to choose JESUS.

That is a very interesting point. Kind of like the early Disciples, two even leaving their boat, nets, and even father to instantly follow a man named Jesus. Or Saul/Paul . . . he was clearly chosen to not only believe, but to suffer.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

No, not really.

I've always thought that all that the Father gave to Christ, which He would lose none, were the Elect, as in, the Elect being another name for "believer."

To me, this is really serious, as it could revolutionize how I see the Scriptures. If you expounded on this in another post, I'd love to read it. If not, could you explain more as a reply here? Thank you!!

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Why can you not understand that God only chose some, not all, people for His purpose. …like the apostles, the prophets, or whatever He needed them to accomplish for Him. Are you jealous of the Elect? Look at Paul. He was chosen. Was his life easy? heck no. And Jeremiah—he was called the weeping prophet. Why can’t you understand that? and by the way, no one knows whether or not they are Elect. God loves ALL of His children—ALL that believe in Jesus.

I've really noticed the difference in the way you communicate. There is a gentleness in your words, a kindness that only comes from the Lord. I want to commend you for not lashing out when perhaps in the past you might have (before you were Transformed). So, I encourage you to continue to express your genuine Love and concern for those who do not share your Holy and Righteous way. When you said it was sad that such a person could not understand . . . I knew that you were genuine and not mocking in tone. Well done, and you have been a great example for me to follow.

 

[obertarti]

Who:(The non-elect)
What:(Free-will)
When, where, how, and why did it go wrong for those who are not of the elect?

This is mystery of lawlessness

Satan and his sons

First heaven created to develop it and finish

It is the second chance to gods to overcome devil what they did not do this in heavens before

All of you are gods but will die like people

We have been gods once on heaven's now people

Free Will given for a period to do your own destiny
After that period nothing can be done

New International Version
For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Hello Thunderr!

I am always looking to update my definition of freewill. I'm guilty of thinking that it is also the uninhibited, unrestricted right to choose. If there is a better, more Biblical definition, lay it on me!

Will is something that belongs to God in is life that lives in every person.

His will is not our will its his

Only the one who does the will of the father will be saved.

Therefore any other will is not free

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

That is really something. That is worthy of being a new thread on its own. Would love to hear more thought on this.

Well the choices I make I've already made them in God's eyes.

God has every man living outside of time for a good reason.

So not one person is in control he is.

For instance he says he knows what I need before I ask.
Which means he has me living outside of his present time but for a good reason.

I believe the choices I make are to be corrected by God's liberty.

And the Choices I make may sound like I'm free to make them, but if they where totally free I would not be living outside of time

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

That is really something. That is worthy of being a new thread on its own. Would love to hear more thought on this.

well most people all say the same thing really that they all feal they have been here before but maybe 1 in a million will realise God has people living out of time.

Is it the case the day you die is the day you live

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

That is really something. That is worthy of being a new thread on its own. Would love to hear more thought on this.

 

[selahsays]

I've always thought that all that the Father gave to Christ, which He would lose none, were the Elect, as in, the Elect being another name for "believer."

To me, this is really serious, as it could revolutionize how I see the Scriptures. If you expounded on this in another post, I'd love to read it. If not, could you explain more as a reply here? Thank you!!

It’s important

I've always thought that all that the Father gave to Christ, which He would lose none, were the Elect, as in, the Elect being another name for "believer."

To me, this is really serious, as it could revolutionize how I see the Scriptures. If you expounded on this in another post, I'd love to read it. If not, could you explain more as a reply here? Thank you!!

I’m beginning to think that there is no such thing as non-elect—only elect and free will. You’re either elect or not—Just like a lion cannot be a non-lion.

In a nutshell, the following is my understanding:

Our Father is eternal and He created all souls in His eternal realm. All souls were created by Him and for Him. To understand election, we must keep in mind our pre-existence. There was an earth age before the one we’re living in now. At that time, we were all in our spiritual bodies, just as we will also be changed back into our spiritual bodies (in the twinkling of an eye) when Jesus returns at the 7th trump, which will be the third and final age (eternity). Continuing…. In the first earth age, Lucifer rebelled against God and many followed him—but, not all. Those who chose to remain faithful to the LORD, God predestined for salvation. These are the Elect. God destroyed that first earth age and created a new one and He put in place a plan to bring as many people as possible back to Himself by giving “whoever“ both a Savior (JESUS) and free will to choose Him. God sent His Son to die for all of us. That’s how much God loves us.

For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

- 2 Peter 3:5-9