Do the non-elect have free-will?

[Niki7]

The Elect were chosen. Those with free will have the freedom to choose JESUS.

That is not biblical. There are not 2 classes of believers. You keep saying the above, but where in the Bible do we read there are 2 types of Christians?

Those of the Calvinist persuasion, whether they follow him religiously or not, disagree and will state all believers who are in fact believers, are the elect. They are chosen by God to believe, have no choice in the matter and that makes them elect.

There is nothing whatsoever in the Bible that will agree with your beliefs about the elect are chosen and the rest of us poor slobs get to choose. Nothing.

So far, pointing this out to you as myself and several others have done, does nothing but engender either a smart remark or supposed confusion. Don't do either. Instead, just show us where the Bible indicates there are chosen and those who choose.

 

[Jimbone]

We find ourselves able to believe by accepting the grace to believe in Jesus correctly. Simple.

I disagree in a way, from a different perspective, but understand what you mean, but this highlights a major point of contention between believers. I disagree that "we accept" in order to be saved. This means we "do" something to be saved as humans. This also can lead to me thinking that because I "accepted" that it put's me above those who just couldn't accept as good as I could. It gives me a tiny foothold to try to claim some of that glory for myself when He tells us very clearly it ALL belongs to Him. I understand what you're saying and there was a time as a born again in truth believer that I believed the same thing, which was directly linked to my false belief that we can "lose" our salvation. Because if I made the choice to "give my life to Jesus" by my free will then does He take my free will at that point? Am I now "stuck saved" no matter what? So the only logical conclusion to me was that even though I never could, we must be aloud to walk away from Him if we wanted to, again I would always preference this argument with "I don't know how it could ever happen", or "I would never, but...."

I know it's impossible to grasp because of the fact we do have a will, it's just not free. Our will is a slave to sin or righteousness, and like it or not God is in charge of it ALL. I have no clue how the sovereignty of God works with our wills to bring about His plan, but it does. The biggest reason I think people hold on so tightly to this "I choose Him" idea is to cling onto a since of power they have, that doesn't really exist. The thing is we just don't, even when we are on our knees crying out that we're done with our way and we need Jesus to live on, it was Him that put you there, not "your choice". He gets ALL the glory for a reason. It all belongs to Him.

 

[CS1]

Who:(The non-elect)
What:(Free-will)
When, where, how, and why did it go wrong for those who are not of the elect?

all have free will LOL

 

[NightTwister]

It's been a long time since we had this discussion.

 

[selahsays]

That is not biblical. There are not 2 classes of believers. You keep saying the above, but where in the Bible do we read there are 2 types of Christians?

Those of the Calvinist persuasion, whether they follow him religiously or not, disagree and will state all believers who are in fact believers, are the elect. They are chosen by God to believe, have no choice in the matter and that makes them elect.

There is nothing whatsoever in the Bible that will agree with your beliefs about the elect are chosen and the rest of us poor slobs get to choose. Nothing.

So far, pointing this out to you as myself and several others have done, does nothing but engender either a smart remark or supposed confusion. Don't do either. Instead, just show us where the Bible indicates there are chosen and those who choose.

Here’s what you need to do @Niki7 Study.
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.

- 2 Timothy 2:15-16

 

[Niki7]

Here’s what you need to do @Niki7 Study.
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.

- 2 Timothy 2:15-16

Obviously I have already done that. Your interpretation is wrong. Your sarcasm is duly noted and sadly, not surprising

But and yet again, where is that scripture I asked you to provide that indicates there are 2 classes of Christians/believers?

You know, the ones you call elect and the ones who have free choice. I would really like to see that instead of sarcasm.

 

[selahsays]

Obviously I have already done that. Your interpretation is wrong. Your sarcasm is duly noted and sadly, not surprising

But and yet again, where is that scripture I asked you to provide that indicates there are 2 classes of Christians/believers?

You know, the ones you call elect and the ones who have free choice. I would really like to see that instead of sarcasm.

Okay. I’ll give you a scripture example of both free will and election:

Free Will:
"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. "For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

- Matthew 7:7-8

Elect:
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.

- Ephesians 1:3-6

 

[Niki7]

Okay. I’ll give you a scripture example of both free will and election:

Free Will:
"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. "For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

- Matthew 7:7-8

Elect:
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.

- Ephesians 1:3-6

nah...not even close. you take 2 scriptures and try to do a mashup. in the sense of the word elect, sorry to say, but I would probably agree with a Calvinist except for their idea that some are created for the dumpster.

once we are in Christ, we are or may be considered ALL elect. I honestly have never seen anyone but you come up with this 2 tier idea of who is saved

 

[selahsays]

nah...not even close. you take 2 scriptures and try to do a mashup. in the sense of the word elect, sorry to say, but I would probably agree with a Calvinist except for their idea that some are created for the dumpster.

once we are in Christ, we are or may be considered ALL elect. I honestly have never seen anyone but you come up with this 2 tier idea of who is saved

I have never said that there are two classes or two tiers of believers. God loves all His children.

 

[Niki7]

I have never said that there are two classes or two tiers of believers. God loves all His children.

aw come on. if you believe there are the elect who have no choice and God has granted them salvation before the creation of the world and then a bunch of others who can choose their salvation, then,

that is exactly TWO classes of Christians

and you will not find that concept in scripture

 

[selahsays]

aw come on. if you believe there are the elect who have no choice and God has granted them salvation before the creation of the world and then a bunch of others who can choose their salvation, then,

that is exactly TWO classes of Christians

and you will not find that concept in scripture

I’m sorry that you don’t understand. It’s really sad. Bye.

 

[selahsays]

Read with understanding @Niki7 …

Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

- Romans 8:27-30

 

[selahsays]

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.

- Ephesians 1:3-6

 

[Niki7]

Read with understanding @Niki7 …

Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

- Romans 8:27-30

I understand that you believe there are 2 classes of Christian and you deny it even after posting multiple times that the elect are one class and everybody else is a 'free to choose'; the elect having no choice.

What is God's purpose according to your understanding?

Did you happen to notice the fact that God CALLS.....nothing about deciding for a person if they will be saved or not

you cannot say that God chose someone and then actually post for us all to read that God CALLS . A positive answer results in salvation; not forceation

God has foreknowledge of everything....hence the prophets who tell us God's plans and speak for Him....most modern so called prophets have not been called but are sadly revered even when what they say does not happen.

Listen: it is YOUR idea of understanding you desire I should have. not God's

 

[selahsays]

What is God's purpose according to your understanding?

Did you happen to notice the fact that God CALLS.....nothing about deciding for a person if they will be saved or not

It’s not what I say; it’s what the Bible says.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

- John 3:16-17

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

- 2 Peter 3:9

Read Acts ch.9. What was Paul (Saul) doing on that road to Damascus? Do you know? He was persecuting Christians! Now we know that Paul was chosen before the foundation of the world because the Lord said to Ananias:
But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. "For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."

- Acts 9:15-16

God interceded and totally changed Paul’s plan to His plan and told Paul exactly what he was to do. In other words, God decided for Paul and gave him no choice.

So he, trembling and astonished, said, "Lord, what do You want me to do?" Then the Lord said to him, "Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."

- Acts 9:6

 

[homwardbound]

Ok So question

How can the power off death be in people life's without any life there

Thanks to Adam the first who ate from that tree in "Unbelief to God"
God did not kill Adam or Eve, they brought that on by "Unbelief" God brought it back to save us by belief for our soul's to be saved by God not the self or anyone else. predicted

Genesis 3:15

Authorized (King James) Version

15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Jesus won in the resurrection as he made an open spectacle of those that got him killed, this is revealed in Col. 1-2

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Thanks to Adam the first who ate from that tree in "Unbelief to God"
God did not kill Adam or Eve, they brought that on by "Unbelief" God brought it back to save us by belief for our soul's to be saved by God not the self or anyone else. predicted

Genesis 3:15

Authorized (King James) Version

15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Jesus won in the resurrection as he made an open spectacle of those that got him killed, this is revealed in Col. 1-2

Thanks to God that his life hold the power of death in his life is more appropriate

 

[Niki7]

It’s not what I say; it’s what the Bible says.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

- John 3:16-17

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

- 2 Peter 3:9

Read Acts ch.9. What was Paul (Saul) doing on that road to Damascus? Do you know? He was persecuting Christians! Now we know that Paul was chosen before the foundation of the world because the Lord said to Ananias:
But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. "For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."

- Acts 9:15-16

God interceded and totally changed Paul’s plan to His plan and told Paul exactly what he was to do. In other words, God decided for Paul and gave him no choice.

So he, trembling and astonished, said, "Lord, what do You want me to do?" Then the Lord said to him, "Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."

- Acts 9:6

Yes. I understand that is how you interpret it. Rather unique actually.

There are not 2 ways to become a believer.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Thanks to Adam the first who ate from that tree in "Unbelief to God"
God did not kill Adam or Eve, they brought that on by "Unbelief" God brought it back to save us by belief for our soul's to be saved by God not the self or anyone else. predicted

Genesis 3:15

Authorized (King James) Version

15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Jesus won in the resurrection as he made an open spectacle of those that got him killed, this is revealed in Col. 1-2

yes his seed is in everyone that exists in Genesis 1.27-28

It's called his life, in everyone.

Yes also his seed in everyone shall bruise the heel.

Yes also his seed in everyone hold the power of his deathnin everyone

Which means his seed can still live under the power of death in everyone.
.
Oh and one more thing. free will is a dictionary quote

 

[selahsays]

Yes. I understand that is how you interpret it. Rather unique actually.

There are not 2 ways to become a believer.

They are both believers.