Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[gb9]

we do see. the Law is Not DIVIDED . you are now willfully blind to this, the language has been explained to you multiple times, you reject it.

that is a you problem.

this is for deighann

 

[Grandpa]

That's the thing. We already went to the author (master physician) and are now well. That's the first part.

We are then given specific instructions to follow to avoid getting sick again.

That's what our "spurring-on" is all about: avoiding getting sick again. The second part. But some (like you, respectfully) keep arguing as if we were never healed at the start of this process.

Some would insinuate that the author (master physician) ALSO keeps us from getting sick again - all on his own, as he does all the work - with no effort required to be taken on our part, and if we do anything we're instantly made sick again.

...while some insinuate that we are never made well by Him but that He simply covers our cancer with bandages and calls us "healed", and any effort or movement by us will cause our bandages to fall off exposing the illness.

Meanwhile, some of us believe that when the author (master physician) heals us we are finally healed; no longer at death's door, but then - in a healed state - He expects us to obey his instructions to avoid getting sick again, as He gives us the best support system to do so, but that we must make the effort to build up our body's resistance.

And if we DO relapse and get sick again we can freely and immediately go back to Him to be healed.

----

Our entire push is for the second part of this process, but you keep replying as if we're pushing for doing the first part ourselves.

That's what's frustrating.

Yes. We are given specific instructions to follow in order to not become sick again.

But legalists and judaizers don't get it. Why don't they? Because they lack faith.

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Mmm... No. If it were as you say and it is up to us to depart from Christ and His Spirit and go back to working at the law in order to "strengthen" our "immune system" SOMEONE would have said it. Some Apostle or the Lord Himself would have said those words.

Paul is talking to Christians here. People who have come to Christ. And then attempted to do what YOU are telling other Christians to do;

Galatians 3:10-12
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.


How come you guys don't understand what this is saying???

If you went to the Author (master Physician) how is it you don't know the Process of being Healed and staying Healed?

If it was by going back to the law Why would there have been so MUCH description on why the LAW has no POWER to heal anyone or to keep anyone from sin?

It is because it is a construct that you have made up in your own imagination from a lack of faith. Right? Look at the weak brother and the strong brother. Its not the strong brother that follows his understanding of the law. Its the weak brother.

Something to think about, maybe.

 

[gb9]

no. all these , and nine of the Ten are repeated in the New Testament, with Sabbath keeping being the exception.

that is my beef with the judeaizers- they push Sabbath, and it is not there.

this is for deighann.

 

[gb9]

and in the fruits of the Sprit is found no Sabbath keeping because it is not required for Christ followers .

this is for deighann

 

[gb9]

Most certainly if this were true, you would attach the posts. These "random" posts must really bother you. The Word of God (the lawgiver) goes against OSAS and all the twisting of the truth that must follow. I myself am very happy "works" are the only thing to follow us.
The traditions of men make void the word of God. I can find no truth in any of this.

I just pulled up a few posts of me proving you wrong. is that enough, or do you want more??

( there is plenty more )

and, I am STILL waiting on you to produce a translation that says the Torah is in parts, as the SAME WORD is used for " Law " over 200 times in the N.T.

 

[DeighAnn]

What you consider "proof" and "proving" is not working for me. Sorry, it just doesn't fit in with the rest Gods Word, for me.

I just pulled up a few posts of me proving you wrong. is that enough, or do you want more??

 

[Nehemiah6]

isn't it when heaven and earth pass then the Torah will be fulfilled?

That is in its TOTALITY. Large portions of the Torah have already been fulfilled. But all references to the Second Coming of Christ have yet to be fulfilled.


The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh [Christ] come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. [when the Kingdom of God is established on earth] (Gen 49:10)

 

[wokinluv]

Yes. We are given specific instructions to follow in order to not become sick again.

But legalists and judaizers don't get it. Why don't they? Because they lack faith.

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Mmm... No. If it were as you say and it is up to us to depart from Christ and His Spirit and go back to working at the law in order to "strengthen" our "immune system" SOMEONE would have said it. Some Apostle or the Lord Himself would have said those words.

Paul is talking to Christians here. People who have come to Christ. And then attempted to do what YOU are telling other Christians to do;

Galatians 3:10-12
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.


How come you guys don't understand what this is saying???

If you went to the Author (master Physician) how is it you don't know the Process of being Healed and staying Healed?

If it was by going back to the law Why would there have been so MUCH description on why the LAW has no POWER to heal anyone or to keep anyone from sin?

It is because it is a construct that you have made up in your own imagination from a lack of faith. Right? Look at the weak brother and the strong brother. Its not the strong brother that follows his understanding of the law. Its the weak brother.

Something to think about, maybe.

For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant. Hebrews 9:15

Israel is the recipient of the first covenant. Are they not recipient of the new covenant?

But God found fault with the people and said: “The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because THEY DID NOT REMAIN FAITHFUL to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord. This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. Hebrews 8:8-10

Are we suppose to REMAIN faithful or not?
What will God put in their/our hearts that we should remain faithful to?
Now, what are you boasting about?

If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. Romans 11:17-22

Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and Walk in Love.

God is good and His LOVE endures forever.

 

[wokinluv]

Right then. Now we cannot put all Jews in the same bracket. Many turned to Christ, both for physical healing and for spiritual healing. Other Jews believed Jesus was an impostor and plotted his death. Those who believed in him, followed him and worshipped him are saved by Him eternally. Now I do not know which group you belong to, but if people are going to follow Jesus, they need to give Him their all and I see so much talk about Moses and the law, I really wonder where their affections lie. I don't want to know, it is not for me to know, that is between you and the Lord, but when I am among Christians, which I usually am, our talk is of spiritual matters, we have times of devotion, we have the communion service in which we remember Christs death and resurrection. We do not deny the Trinity because that is to deny Jesus, and there is so much talk on the internet that exclude Jesus, who should be at the centre of our affections, that I really wonder about the spiritual state of peoples hearts. Mainly it seems to me most peoples thoughts are with all things regarding earthly Israel, rather than the Saviour. Those whose thoughts dwell on Jesus are the ones who self identify as Christians, while others identify as Jewish or some other religion. Your thoughts, it seems to me are all on the Old Testament about which you are very knowledgeable.

Sorry PS but something in your post got my attention and i just want to clarify. First of all, can you tell me your simple and honest view of the Gospel? Just curious and maybe it's all for now.

Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and Walk in Love.

God is good and His LOVE endures forever. Amen

 

[SimpleGardner]

isn't it when heaven and earth pass then the Torah will be fulfilled?

Greetings G911,

Here's one you probably already know;

"In all things small and all things great remember Romans 8:28!"

Saw that was your favorite verse.

SG

 

[SimpleGardner]

Right then. Now we cannot put all Jews in the same bracket. Many turned to Christ, both for physical healing and for spiritual healing. Other Jews believed Jesus was an impostor and plotted his death. Those who believed in him, followed him and worshipped him are saved by Him eternally. Now I do not know which group you belong to, but if people are going to follow Jesus, they need to give Him their all and I see so much talk about Moses and the law, I really wonder where their affections lie. I don't want to know, it is not for me to know, that is between you and the Lord, but when I am among Christians, which I usually am, our talk is of spiritual matters, we have times of devotion, we have the communion service in which we remember Christs death and resurrection. We do not deny the Trinity because that is to deny Jesus, and there is so much talk on the internet that exclude Jesus, who should be at the centre of our affections, that I really wonder about the spiritual state of peoples hearts. Mainly it seems to me most peoples thoughts are with all things regarding earthly Israel, rather than the Saviour. Those whose thoughts dwell on Jesus are the ones who self identify as Christians, while others identify as Jewish or some other religion. Your thoughts, it seems to me are all on the Old Testament about which you are very knowledgeable.

Greetings,

I will be the first to admit that I refer to Genesis through Malachi as the "Old Testament" and "Matthew through Revelation" as the "New Testament", but just to open up how our thinking is guided by the terms and ideas we simply adopt as relevant let me ask:

From where, when and by whom did the Designator "Old Testament" and "New Testament" originate?

Do these terms guide men's conceptualization of the works of each and from there leave them ripe for misdirection?

 

[Whispered]

Works do not save.
It's interesting really. The Christian will say they believe in God and His eternal word. Then in moments like this we'll insist we have to be involved in saving ourselves.
That's pride.


Pride is a sin.
Those who are in Christ don't make a habit of sinning.
I've never worked for a gift. People give me a gift because they love me. And I too give them gifts for the same reason.
Why would God be any different when He's greater than us?


Works are the fruit of our Salvation. Not the seal that guarantees it.

 

[wokinluv]

I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. 2 Corinthians 11:2-4

.

 

[wokinluv]

For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Ephesians 5:23

 

[wokinluv]

NIV1984 Hebrews 11:39-40
These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

 

[wokinluv]

Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.
2 John 1:9-11

 

[wokinluv]

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained. Philippians 3:12-16

 

[wokinluv]

Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Hebrews 9:27-28

 

[PS]

Sorry PS but something in your post got my attention and i just want to clarify. First of all, can you tell me your simple and honest view of the Gospel? Just curious and maybe it's all for now.

Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and Walk in Love.

God is good and His LOVE endures forever. Amen

The Gospel is well encapsulated in the words of Jesus who said, "I Am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life."

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Joh 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Joh 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

In verse 11 Jesus said, "Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me" meaning quite literally that Jesus is Yahweh in the flesh.

The Jews quite rightly look to God for salvation, which they did by following the commandments, for the most part sincerely and faithfully, but never perfectly due to our human nature, to which end God, the perfect one made a way of escape, so that ALL who believe in Him shall be saved.

That Jesus is Yahweh God is clearly stated in scripture. Read on: -

Exodus 3:14 - God says "I AM who I AM" - John 8:58 - Jesus says "Before Abraham was, I AM" in reference to Himself.

Deut. 4:2; 12:32 - the Lord God commands that we not add or take away from His word - Rev. 22:18-19 - Jesus so commands us not to add or take away from His word.

Deut. 32:39; 1 Sam. 2:6 - the Lord kills and makes alive again and raises up - John 5:21 - the Son raises and gives life.

Deut. 32:39 - neither is there any that can deliver out of God's hand - John 10:28 - nor shall any pluck out of Jesus' hand.

2 Sam. 22:3 - God is the horn of salvation - Luke 1:68-69 - Jesus is the horn of salvation.

Psalm 24:10 - the Lord is the King of glory - 1 Cor. 2:8 - Jesus is the Lord of glory.

Psalm 62:12 - the Lord God renders to each according to his work - Matt. 16:27; Rev. 22:12 - Jesus so renders to each according to his work.

Psalm 71:5 - the Lord God is our hope - 1 Tim. 1:1 - the Lord Jesus Christ who is our hope.

Psalm 97:9 - the Lord God is above all - John 3:31 - Jesus is above all.

Psalm 148:1-2 - the angels worship the Lord God - Heb. 1:6 - the angels worship Jesus. Only God is worshiped.

Prov. 3:12 - who the Lord loves He corrects - Rev. 3:19 - who Jesus loves He corrects.

Isaiah 25:8 - God swallows up death in victory - 2 Tim. 1:10 - Jesus abolishes death and brings life and immortality.

Isaiah 40:8 - the Word of God shall stand forever - Matt. 24:35 - the Words of Jesus shall not pass away.

Isaiah 43:14 - the Lord God is redeemer - Titus 2:14 - Jesus is the redeemer.

Isaiah 44:6 - the Lord God is the first and the last - Rev. 1:17; 2:8; 22:13 - Jesus is the first and the last.

Isaiah 45:19 - I, the Lord God, did not speak in secret - John 18:20 - Jesus said "I have said nothing secretly."

Isaiah 45:23 - to God, every knee shall bow and every tongue swear. Phil. 2:10-11 - at Jesus' name every knee should bow and tongue confess.

Isaiah 48:17 - God is the Holy One - Acts 3:14 - Jesus is the Holy One.

Isaiah 60:19 - God is everlasting light - Revelation 21:23 - Jesus the Lamb is eternal light.

Jer. 17:10 - the Lord searches the hearts and repays us according to our deeds - Rev. 2:23 - Jesus searches the hearts and repays us according to our deeds.

Ezek. 1:26-28; Daniel 7:9 - God's glorious appearance - Rev. 1:13-16 - Jesus' glorious appearance.

Ezek. 34:11-31 - God the Father is the shepherd of the flock - John 10:7-29 - Jesus is the shepherd of the flock.

Ezek. 34:16 - God seeks to save that which was lost - Luke 19:10 - Jesus seeks to save that which was lost.

Ezek. 34:17 - God judges between cattle, rams and goats - Matt. 25:32 - Jesus judges and separates the goats from the sheep.

Ezek. 43:2 - God's voice was like a noise of many waters - Rev. 1:15 - Jesus' voice was like the sound of many waters.

Dan. 2:47 - the Lord is the God of gods and the Lord of Lords - Rev. 17:14 - Jesus the Lamb is the Lord of Lords.

So now, instead of following Old Testament law, people can simply believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and follow Him all the days of their life.

 

[posthuman]

i do not know whether people are being purposefully disingenuous or whether people have just not been properly understood in what they are saying, and i simply have not had time over the last few months to keep up with & read everything going on in here -- and i can't speak for everyone, yet myself, but i want to make a couple things clear because i keep reading falsehood repeated as tho it is established truth:

• when i use the phrase 'the law' i refer to the law of Moses, which is not of Moses but of God, which is the law of the Sinai covenant
  • this law, found in Exodus Leviticus Numbers & Deuteronomy, is ubiquitously spoken of as one undivided law not 'a moral law' and two other parts whose jots and tittles can be freely removed. the idea that you can be faithful to 'segments' of the law while breaking the other 2/3 of it is entirely modern and unscriptural. it's not how the Bible talks about the law at all but it's super common anyway, despite it being an entirely false characterization.
• to not be under 'the law' is not to be 'lawless'
  • see 1 Cor. 9:20-21 for one very clear example.
    • 'the law' which is 'the law of the Sinai covenant' is not the same as 'the law of Christ' which is by extension 'the law of God' ((because Christ is God made flesh))
• to believe what the scripture literally says - the redeemed believers in Christ are not under the law - is absolutely not to say 'do not do anything good' nor is it making excuses to sin or to live wickedly.
• the believer is free from the law because they have died with Christ with regard to the law, and no one who has died is liable to the law.
  • Romans 6, 7, 8. seriously, y'all need to read Romans.
  • this means not a single jot or tittle of the law needs to be considered as 'removed' in order for the Christian not to be under its judgement -- however for you people who wish to judge and so be judged by the law, you've got 2/3 of the jots and tittles removed.
• the law is not the only way anyone can know the difference between righteousness and evil. the law was given 430 years after Abraham but sin and righteousness existed a thousand years before Abraham. the law was given so that sin might be made more sinful, and the law was given as a covenant to a specific people, the Hebrews
  • sin exists apart from the law. did Jesus not tell you that to lust after a woman in your heart is sin, even if you do not break the law by going on to commit adultery or fornication with your body?
• righteousness does not change. as having believed, we are 'under' compulsion to live righteously and carry out righteous works. just because we do not live according to the written commandments of the covenant we are not under does not mean we encourage unrighteousness or hate righteousness. those are false accusations and total misconstruing of the reality of the gospel and the walk of the Christian faith.
• we are not arguing against righteousness at all, because righteousness does not come by the law. Galatians 2:21. we are in fact arguing for righteousness, the kind of righteousness God accepts, which is that which is by faith. that does not mean 'inaction' or 'do nothing' -- those are false characterizations and slanderous charges that should not go on being repeated by people who know better.
• what we are teaching is the very same thing that the Bible teaches: we have been saved by grace, we have been made partakers in a new covenant which must therefore be a new law. our justification, our sanctification, our salvation and our righteousness are 100% the work of Christ, not our own work - so that turning to the law of the old covenant in order to boast in it as a means for justification, for sanctification, for righteousness, is to deny the One who justifies, who sanctifies and who declares righteous.
  • the sabbath itself ought to declare that to us, if we would only listen, because it was explicitly given as a sign that God is the One who sanctifies us. Exodus 31:13, Ezekiel 20:12. therefore in Him we find rest. keep that holy: keep the sanctification that is not of human hands holy.
• righteousness does not change. all of the righteousness taught in the law is fulfilled in the keeping of one command: love one another as Christ has loved you. Romans 13:8-10, James 2:8, Galatians 5:14, Romans 8:4, Romans 3:10, Matthew 22:40, John 13:34-35, Hebrews 1:2, Hebrews 8:13, 2 Corinthians 5:17, Matthew 7:12, Micah 6:8, etc etc etc
  • i am under no other debt but the continuing debt to love -- and thereby, though i am not under the law, not under the ten commandments, i am in no way arguing against doing what is right; i am arguing do what is right from the heart, not from scrolls of precept after precept. if God has indeed written His own law of righteousness in your heart, you do not walk after the written commands and you do not need to be taught what righteousness is by placing yourself in subjection to rules governing your body.
    

Christ has offered you freedom from the law of sin and death, and for freedom's sake He has made me free, not to use it as a means for licentiousness but that i might have life, and more abundantly.

please do not spit on what He has done for me.
please do not mischaracterize it and please do not pretend He hasn't done it.
please read Romans. then read it again. and again. and also Galatians, and the whole Book, and look for Christ in it, not for ammunition to attack and judge and accuse and enslave others with.
OK THX