Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
- Thread starter Marcelo
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Thanks for explaining.
Regarding your last sentence, how do you square it with Galatians 3:3?
While it's true that Moses followed God, it is perhaps misleading to say that Jesus followed God, being God Himself.
What I mean is this: we as Christians are righteous before God by faith in Jesus Christ. That is, we began by faith. Paul wrote to the Galatians, who erroneously thought that obedience to the Law had to be added to faith in Christ. Paul asks rhetorically, "Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?" The answer, of course, is No.
Our righteousness in Christ is not maintained by obedience to the Law; it is maintained by faith in Christ. His Spirit in us began a good work and will bring it to completion (Phil. 1:6). We don't bring it to completion by obedience to the Law.
Paul and James both make clear that if we seek to be righteous before God by obedience to the Law, then we must obey ALL of it: circumcision, Sabbath, the offerings, the feasts, the stoning of adulterers and murderers, the Levites and the priests. Well, we can't obey ALL of it because there is no temple, no Levites, and no priests, so it is ludicrous to think that we will be righteous before God by obeying parts of it. The Law was fulfilled by Jesus, and is fulfilled by our loving God and loving our neighbour as ourselves, by the power of the Holy Spirit within us.
Sadly, those who preach adherence to certain parts of the Law are actually preaching a false gospel, one which is contrary to the gospel that Paul preached.
You and others fail to understand what the Eye of the Needle is. It was a small entry into Jerusalem. A camel had to crawl on its knees to crawl through the gate. This gate was always open and easily defended.
Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus. Every year the first born male of a Jewish family had to attend the annual festival at Jerusalem to present the required offerings, often bringing at least a perfect lamb, along with tithe #1 of three. I got that from the Torah. I will not spend time teaching the requirements of the Law of Moses. You too can get all that from the Torah. There's a period at the end of that statement.
It's true that Jesus said He only preached what the Father God said and did.
More specifically, the covering sins for one year is the day of atonement, or Yom Kippur. The passage is from Lev 16, and concluded with
34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the Lord commanded Moses.
Old Testament. Today we have Jesus who lived a sinless life becoming the Unblemished Lamb of God. As such was the perfect sacrifice for our sins. Thus the free gift of grace was given by God. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus.
The key lesson is that the annual sacrifice could take away sins for one year.
Yet, we have many Christians who have the silly view that Jesus's sacrifice only last us, until our next sin, and we must get it confessed and under the blood, otherwise God will punish us for it.
Torah says three times a year every male has to go to Jerusalem and participate in the feasts, not just the firstborn: for passover, or the feast of weeks, and the feast of tabernacles.
but where do you get 'the benefit only lasts a year' ? what benefit? atonement for sin?
if you're getting that from Hebrews 10:3, isn't the reference to yom kippur?
if the sacrifices on the day of atonement - e.g. the 'scapegoat' - are 'only lasting for 1 year' then the 2nd year are the priests again sacrificing for the sins of 2 years ago plus all the sins of the present year? and so on and so on?
i don't understand where you get 'benefit only lasts one year' and link it to passover. in the law passover is commanded to commemorate the day He took them out of Egypt, not to assuage a yearly, repeating threat of the angel of death coming to kill the firstborn of every household that doesn't have blood on the door. AFAIK.
if that's not so, can you show me?
where does the Bible say 'if you make this sacrifice for sin the LORD will forgive you for exactly one year then you have to make it again' ??
yes, that would be a week before passover; not passover. so wordswordsman would not be correct in what he said earlier.
but is this for the sins of that year or for collectively that year's sins plus all the sins of all the previous years, because God's mercy expires on a yearly basis??
100 years after the Exodus is yom kippur atoning for 100 years of sins, or one year?
where does the Bible say His mercy has an expiration date?
No.
Moses was no Christ.
Moses was an example of giving people what they wanted, Like King Saul. "Tell us what we should do and we'll do it". That's what people want.
Christ is the example of God giving people what He wants. Like King David. A man after Gods own heart.
** sorry, a week before sukkot ((feast of tabernacles)), not a week before pesach/passover. that's totally different time of year
but my point, more concisely, is this:
- all Jewish males under the law, not just firstborn, are required to go to Jerusalem 3 times a year for feasts
- passover is a commemoration, not an atonement
- the day of atonement seems to me to be for the sins of each year not for all sins of all preceding years:
- i see nothing in the text indicating the atonement of yom kippur has an expiration date
- i see nothing in the Bible anywhere about God's forgiveness having an expiration date
i don't consider 'read all 5 books of Moses' to be an adequate answer to my question. am looking for something a teensy bit more specific .. ?
thanks
Read the text again:
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
27 Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”
28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[e] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.
The disciples were greatly surprised because they realized it would be impossible for many to be saved and Jesus confirmed it. Obviously the "eye of a needle" Jesus was talking about was not wide enough for a camel to be squeezed through it.
i've heard & read many people giving this as the explanation and many people saying this is a complete myth being propagated and that there never was any such thing. so much so that i don't feel confident either agreeing or disagreeing that this is what He is referring to.
setting that aside -- i'm not even sure whether camels actually physically can crawl on their 'knees' -- but the most poignant thing i have heard about this is that the keyway door being very narrow, a camel has to have all of its burdens removed from it in order to pass through.
i.e. -- could not fit through the door if it was carrying any baggage
that makes some sense in the context, because the Lord told the man to give his possessions ((baggage/burdens)) away.
it does make sense, too, about going to ones knees, i admit - because the opening of the conversation is Christ asking why he calls Him good? which i see as prodding this man to confess that Jesus is in fact Lord, not just a 'teacher'
ok, here's a video of a camel crawling on her forelegs --
however she's only down on her forelegs, and her hindlegs are still extended. so Aria the camel doesn't actually get any shorter than she would be if she only ducked her head.. which, i'm thinking, if a camel could fit through a gate like this, it could fit through without doing it, too.
His love of wealth was greater than his love for God. His god was money and for someone who loves mammon more than God, it is impossible for that person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
A camel might just squeeze through a narrow gate if it gets down on its knees and rids itself of its baggage. The Rich young Ruler was not prepared to do that. Money was more important to him than God.