Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[PaulThomson]

But He sure did say some were given and some weren't. It's a principle. And I didn't say anything about eternity past.
And the passage doesn't say He explained the parable to the multitude. It was only explained to the disciples. To the multitude he said...who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

I'm interested in knowing why did Jesus use such a phrase? Was He just saying pay attention? Or was He suggesting something like Luke 8:18...take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken...

I think He was saying, "He who has ears that have hearing, let him pay attention to what I am saying." AkuO" means both to ear and to listen attentively.

What do you think "8:18...take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken..." taken in context, means exactly?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

It always seems to get brushed aside that God grants repentance, skewed by those who think they have a will that is free (despite the teaching of Scripture to the contrary) to mean God forces it, or somehow it is a fraudulent offer, while Paul asks, what do any have that was not given to them? <= again all but completely overlooked. What must they make of, the god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, who are taken captive to do his (the devil's) will??? Do they think the will of the devil is that unbelievers turn to Christ and suddenly accept the gospel as not being foolish? That in the hostility unbelievers harbor in their minds against God, the devil desires them to believe God commanded the light to shine out of darkness into their hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ? I really do wonder how it can be asked, as @HeIsHere did, how does one feel okay making Jesus a liar. Who has said nobody can believe in God? That is just such a ridiculous thing to say. I suppose it is predicated on them not believing people (the natural man) need to have their hearts and ears circumcized, as if that was never mentioned in Scripture. I will suppose again that those with eyes to see, see it there. Because it is there.

Deuteronomy 30:6~
The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love Him
with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.

My friend, as you well know, if certain "people" acknowledge the Circumcision of Christ, they will be forced to acknowledge that they haven't received it. The Word Circumcision is a dividing sword, for very few can barely put the Word to their lips, especially men when they are surround by children and women. It makes them feel funny, for they do not understand it, therefore, they cannot understand the Saving Plan of Christ. In fact, when preachers and teachers want to protect the tender ears of little children from the discussion of Circumcision, they literally prevent them from knowing the Saving Plan of Christ. All this . . . because they do not understand this Essential Doctrine. Why do they not understand Spiritual Circumcision, because they have not received this precious Gift, the very Purpose for Christ's arrival . . .

John 9:39-41 NLT - "Then Jesus told him, "I entered this world to render judgment--to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see that they are blind." Some Pharisees who were standing nearby heard him and asked, "Are you saying we're blind?" "If you were blind, you wouldn't be guilty," Jesus replied. "But you remain guilty because you claim you can see."

In order to keep the Saving Plan a hidden Mystery to the Blessed Jews, this teaching of Christ is the most plain teaching He would ever give regarding Spiritual Circumcision. It wouldn't be until Paul was given the eyes to see this teaching, that he was capable of explaining it like none other. Nonetheless, it is abundantly clear: No one can understand this teaching, regardless of how hard you and I try to explain it, UNLESS Jesus gives such people the Spiritual eyes and ears to see and hear it. It is utterly impossible.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

You say that's what Calvinism teaches. I've heard people here describe all manner of belief to Calvinism and they range from similar to very different than what I believe.

Since I have never read any of Calvin's works, I don't use the terminology ascribed to him. And for 2 reasons:
1. I can't tell you what Calvin may have meant by his use of the terms, and
2. Whenever I hear the name of Calvin invoked or terminology ascribed to him employed, the discussion becomes highly emotional. Rational people turn very irrational quickly.

So if you want to continue to invoke Calvin's name into the conversation, you are free to. But I'm not interested in talking about Calvin. I am interested in talking about Christ.

I stopped studying Calvinism about thirty years ago. Studying Calvinism is NOT the study of the Bible, but the study of what Calvin taught. Who cares about Calvin (not to be rude or disrespectful to his person). I have had so many angry, upset imposters call me a Calvinist, but I have come to realize that this is simply a diversion from the fact that such people struggle to talk about the Bible. Thus they turn to something other than it as the means by which to destroy and diminish our personal spirits. These "people" are intent on causing us emotional harm, thus they fall deep into sounding just like the Blessed Jews during the Day of Christ . . . and their ugly words turned to murder. Whom did they not kill first with their words, and then with their hands? These people are dangerous, for they are filled with hatred for Christian men and women, proven by their strong and uncontrollable need to cause emotional damage. They do not know how to build others up and encourage. Rather, they thrive upon and enjoy hurting others because of what they believe. They are neither patient nor kind, but impatient and slanderous . . . the qualities that come from their Spiritual Father, the Devil.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

To the multitude he said...who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

I'm interested in knowing why did Jesus use such a phrase?

These people are unwilling to acknowledge the Purpose of Christ, which Jesus clearly explained in John 9:39-41, but if these people were to acknowledge His Purpose, they would be forced to acknowledge His Spiritual and physical Work (in order to put His Purpose into action). If people refuse to acknowledge the Messiah's Work, they will have created an evil path by which to deny His Spiritual Effect.

But as I have said in the past, there are very few uncorrupted preachers and teachers who teach them the truth. Christianity today is as Pure as the Blessed Jews of 2000 years ago. In fact, the Blessed Jews of yesterday were and are a pattern for the obviously lost church of this day. The lost always have the same attitude of hatred, and the fact that they resort to horrible name-calling is essentially equivalent to possessing murder in their hearts.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I don't get the big deal. Someone has a view different than your own. So what? Make your argument using scripture and contend for the faith as you see fit. If they receive it, great. If they don't, move on. No need to slander someone.
People seem very concerned with knowledge, but little concerned to be like Christ. No where in scripture is knowledge equated to Christ-likeness. But love, joy, peace, longsuffering, goodness, gentleness are all said to be marks of genuine believers yet are often little in evidence. Yet few seem concerned that these things are lacking in their manner of discourse. Some even laud and encourage sinful behavior so long as they agree on a particular topic.

Oh, how beautifully said! It is simply mind-boggling to see that these people do not care that they obviously disregard the command to Love one another, just as the Father Loves His Son. But if this Love is not within them; if this Love has not been granted, there is zero chance that they can express such Love. A person cannot give what they have not been given.

If not for you and Magenta, this place would seem absolutely hopeless. I am so thankful to read both of your most Holy Words, for I know deep within that the understanding that we possess has come from Transformation. We cannot possibly understand these things if our hearts of soft, tender flesh, had not been given as a replacement to our former hearts made of stone.

I am so thankful that He rescued me from the clutches of Satan by giving me a new heart and spirit, and Holy Spirit just as described in Ezekiel 36:25-27. For some insane reason, people reject these beautiful Scriptures that outline Spiritual Circumcision, yet they may sing in their church the following:

Psalm 51:10-12 KJV - "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit."

It is staggering that they do not understand Spiritual Circumcision, yet each time they sing this song, they are singing about the Purpose, Work, and Effect of His Work . . . and they have no clue. None.

 

[MerSee]

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I stopped studying Calvinism about thirty years ago. Studying Calvinism is NOT the study of the Bible, but the study of what Calvin taught. Who cares about Calvin (not to be rude or disrespectful to his person). I have had so many angry, upset imposters call me a Calvinist, but I have come to realize that this is simply a diversion from the fact that such people struggle to talk about the Bible. Thus they turn to something other than it as the means by which to destroy and diminish our personal spirits. These "people" are intent on causing us emotional harm, thus they fall deep into sounding just like the Blessed Jews during the Day of Christ . . . and their ugly words turned to murder. Whom did they not kill first with their words, and then with their hands? These people are dangerous, for they are filled with hatred for Christian men and women, proven by their strong and uncontrollable need to cause emotional damage. They do not know how to build others up and encourage. Rather, they thrive upon and enjoy hurting others because of what they believe. They are neither patient nor kind, but impatient and slanderous . . . the qualities that come from their Spiritual Father, the Devil.

And to prove what I have written, Paulthompson thinks my words are funny. Such people remind me of Bildad, Zophar, and Eliphaz.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

View attachment 265014

Might consider taking a new screenshot. There are now three "winners" given.

 

[Cameron143]

Good morning, Cameron. Maybe it’s not a principle. Eternity past? As in ”before the foundation of the world?” Was there another time that existed before the one we’re living in now in which God chose His Elect? Wasn’t Lucifer and the fallen angels cast down to the earth because of their rebellion against God? Remember the Nephilum and then the flood? …and yet Noah was found righteous. Remember when Jesus confronted the totally depraved Pharisees when He said to them:

John 8:44
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Eternity past just means before creation. As far as the rest, I don't understand what exactly you are wanting me to consider. Can you clarify?

 

[Cameron143]

I think He was saying, "He who has ears that have hearing, let him pay attention to what I am saying." AkuO" means both to ear and to listen attentively.

What do you think "8:18...take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken..." taken in context, means exactly?

Not sure. It could mean something like hearken or listen diligently. I'm still studying the passage.

 

[Mem]

Not sure. It could mean something like hearken or listen diligently. I'm still studying the passage.

I read it as if a teach is say, "Attention, class!"
Or a truck driver, "...anybody got their ears on?!"
or a divine APB

 

[HeIsHere]

And to have one set of rules for yourself and another for others is disingenuous.
I never used the term irresistible grace. What I have said is no one ever refused the offer of grace once given a new heart.

Speaking to the general narrative of this system, capisci.

And yet you, as in you >>> Mr. Cameron do assert a "spiritual hearing", which means Gods acts upon the person so maybe a slight deviation from the irresistible grace.

And yet we are left with the same conundrum of a god who leaves people unable to hear, in their sin even after hearing the Gospel message and allows others to hear, same difference really.

 

[Mem]

if I were delivering the sermon, I'd have said something like, "God gave you ears, use them"

What Jesus didn't say, "....Let him hear, that is, unless he wasn't given ears to hear and/or I've stopped up the ears he has been given."

 

[HeIsHere]

I don't get the big deal. Someone has a view different than your own. So what? Make your argument using scripture and contend for the faith as you see fit. If they receive it, great. If they don't, move on. No need to slander someone.
People seem very concerned with knowledge, but little concerned to be like Christ. No where in scripture is knowledge equated to Christ-likeness. But love, joy, peace, longsuffering, goodness, gentleness are all said to be marks of genuine believers yet are often little in evidence. Yet few seem concerned that these things are lacking in their manner of discourse. Some even laud and encourage sinful behavior so long as they agree on a particular topic.

The view that God grants repentance, spiritual hearing to individuals on a case by case, denying others, is non-scriptural and maligns God

So it is very understandable why people push back and sometimes quite hard.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

The view that God grants repentance, spiritual hearing to individuals on a case by case, denying others, is non-scriptural and maligns God

So it is very understandable why people push back and sometimes quite hard.

Isaiah preached:
3 Incline your ear, and come unto Me; hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

Jesus taught:
23 If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.”
24 Then He continued, “Pay attention to what you hear."


Both of these examples are when speaking to [(LARGE groups of people)] and we know many who heard are the ONES who yelled Crucify Him.

So this is for anyone with ears.

The only case for Spiritual Hearing is after we "are saved."

It's called hearing the Small Still Voice.

It's like going some place and you see someone in need but you get a feeling that you should buy that person food or give money and share God Loves Them. This is what Spiritual Hearing is all about.

 

[HeIsHere]

Every aspect of man...heart, mind, will...were corrupted in the fall.

Well not sure this a scriptural thing but certainly a St. Augustine view.

However, once again this does not mean that natural man is born morally incapable of responding to the power of the Gospel message!!

The inability to be perfect does not equate to the inability to trust in the perfect One and the message He has given for the ages

to believe in HIM and His work on mankind's behalf.

 

[Cameron143]

if I were delivering the sermon, I'd have said something like, "God gave you ears, use them"

What Jesus didn't say, "....Let him hear, that is, unless he wasn't given ears to hear and/or I've stopped up the ears he has been given."

Jesus does make a distinction between hearing and understanding and hearing and not understanding. If someone believes that that is a function of the hearer I get that. But if understanding is a function of revelation, hearing is no longer a function of the hearer, but is a function of one's spiritual estate.
I don't believe every reference to hearing must of necessity include the spirit. But neither does it mean none do.
As Christians, we ask God for understanding and wisdom. Why? Because we recognize that there are spiritual truths and realities beyond our natural abilities.

 

[HeIsHere]

Isaiah preached:
3 Incline your ear, and come unto Me; hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

Jesus taught:
23 If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.”
24 Then He continued, “Pay attention to what you hear."


Both of these examples are when speaking to [(LARGE groups of people)] and we know many who heard are the ONES who yelled Crucify Him.

So this is for anyone with ears.

The only case for Spiritual Hearing is after we "are saved."

It's called hearing the Small Still Voice.

It's like going some place and you see someone in need but you get a feeling that you should buy that person food or give money and share God Loves Them. This is what Spiritual Hearing is all about.

Thank you and Thank you!!

 

[HeIsHere]

Jesus does make a distinction between hearing and understanding and hearing and not understanding. If someone believes that that is a function of the hearer I get that. But if understanding is a function of revelation, hearing is no longer a function of the hearer, but is a function of one's spiritual estate.
I don't believe every reference to hearing must of necessity include the spirit. But neither does it mean none do.
As Christians, we ask God for understanding and wisdom. Why? Because we recognize that there are spiritual truths and realities beyond our natural abilities.

Understanding the Gospel message is NOT out of reach of the natural man and his natural abilities.

 

[HeIsHere]

Isaiah preached:
3 Incline your ear, and come unto Me; hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

Jesus taught:
23 If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.”
24 Then He continued, “Pay attention to what you hear."


Both of these examples are when speaking to [(LARGE groups of people)] and we know many who heard are the ONES who yelled Crucify Him.

So this is for anyone with ears.

The only case for Spiritual Hearing is after we "are saved."

It's called hearing the Small Still Voice.

It's like going some place and you see someone in need but you get a feeling that you should buy that person food or give money and share God Loves Them. This is what Spiritual Hearing is all about.

....and yet there will be some way around this absolute truth too, waiting. lol