Did it happen literally and physically?

[GWH]

Yes, there is evidence of a world wide flood that covered every mountain, although perhaps Genesis condenses the time frame,
but focusing on the physical happening misses the spiritual purpose of the story, which is that God literally rescues believers from ultimate death/hell aka reaping the just result of evil behavior. The story of Jesus explains the meaning of Noah (Matt. 24:37-38,
Heb. 11:7, 1Pet. 3:20-21, 2Pet. 3:8-9, Gen. 6-9).

 

[Dino246]

I'm here to share the truth.

Then don’t add your personal comments to the truth (Scripture); your comments are not truth.

 

[Godsgood]

Then don’t add your personal comments to the truth (Scripture); your comments are not truth.

I have no personal comment.

My sharing is based on what God the Father revelation.
Because he is the one giving the understanding.
PROVERBS 2:6
6 For the Lord giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

Personally, I know nothing.

 

[Dino246]

Personally, I know nothing.

Finally, something on which we can agree!

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Yes, there is evidence of a world wide flood that covered every mountain, although perhaps Genesis condenses the time frame,
but focusing on the physical happening misses the spiritual purpose of the story, which is that God literally rescues believers from ultimate death/hell aka reaping the just result of evil behavior. The story of Jesus explains the meaning of Noah (Matt. 24:37-38,
Heb. 11:7, 1Pet. 3:20-21, 2Pet. 3:8-9, Gen. 6-9).

Would it not make more sense to say the fossils on mountaintops were there before God raised the land from the waters when He formed the earth instead of saying that they were formed during a quick 1 year flood? I would expect to see all types of fossils such as animals and humans if it was from the flood.

 

[GWH]

Would it not make more sense to say the fossils on mountaintops were there before God raised the land from the waters when He formed the earth instead of saying that they were formed during a quick 1 year flood? I would expect to see all types of fossils such as animals and humans if it was from the flood.

Yes, indeed. As Bernard Ramm pointed out in "The Christian View of Science and Scripture" (p. 123), literal interpretations of the Genesis creation account which placed the date as 4004 B.C. occurred in the 1600s, when people were ignorant of scientific evidence for a much longer time frame, but the purpose of Genesis was to assert that God is the Creator, not to explain the process in scientific detail.
Surprisingly, however, as I skimmed through Ramm's book just now, I could not find him appealing to 2 Peter 3:8-9 as Scriptural warrant for viewing the days of Genesis 1 as long periods of time.

 

[Dino246]

Would it not make more sense to say the fossils on mountaintops were there before God raised the land from the waters when He formed the earth instead of saying that they were formed during a quick 1 year flood? I would expect to see all types of fossils such as animals and humans if it was from the flood.

No, it would not make more sense. If you carefully examine the flood account, you will find that it is the best explanation for the extant evidence.

 

[Godsgood]

Finally, something on which we can agree!

JOHN 5:19
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise

 

[Godsgood]

The entire flood was an act of God their survival in the ark was also an act of God. Never doubt what God can do. Check out a video on Tubi TV called the Ark and the Darkness. It's a very interesting watch and may help you with your doubts.

I don't use the word Act of God. I can't imagine a Storm/Hurricane/Cyclone/Earthquake, that devastate the properties & life of the people. God never do that literal physical. So I call it Act of Nature.

Act of God is pertaining to Spiritual things because what he saves are the spirit of the people.

 

[Godsgood]

No, it would not make more sense. If you carefully examine the flood account, you will find that it is the best explanation for the extant evidence.

The extant evidence is a contradiction of what Paul said.
2 CORINTHIANS 4:18
18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

No, it would not make more sense. If you carefully examine the flood account, you will find that it is the best explanation for the extant evidence.

I guess if you don’t believe in the gap theory then the flood makes sense. But if you believe in the gap theory the it makes sense for the fossils to be there before. It just doesn’t make sense to me for there to only be sea life fossils when all creation should be mixed in.

 

[Dino246]

I guess if you don’t believe in the gap theory then the flood makes sense. But if you believe in the gap theory the it makes sense for the fossils to be there before. It just doesn’t make sense to me for there to only be sea life fossils when all creation should be mixed in.

I reject the gap theory because it ignores plain Scripture and injects speculation.

I encourage you to research the matter further. Answers in Genesis is a great source… one of several.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

I reject the gap theory because it ignores plain Scripture and injects speculation.

I encourage you to research the matter further. Answers in Genesis is a great source… one of several.

I reject a young earth theory cause it plainly ignores reality and science. Either way the gap theory and young earth theory are both unproven theories. I have researched plenty and encourage everyone to do so. My research is what brought me from believing in young earth to the gap theory.

 

[Dino246]

I reject a young earth theory cause it plainly ignores reality and science. Either way the gap theory and young earth theory are both unproven theories. I have researched plenty and encourage everyone to do so. My research is what brought me from believing in young earth to the gap theory.

What “reality” and “science” does YE reject?

 

[Just_A__Follower]

What “reality” and “science” does YE reject?

Just to name a few:
1)Pretty much every type of radio metric dating unless it of course it is dating a biblical artifact
2)the fact that fossils aren’t produced in one year let alone the few days or maybe weeks that Mt. Everest would’ve been covered by water
3)the fact that they found fossils of tropical plants under Antarctica which would have either meant Antarctica wasn’t always there or the entire earth was a lot hotter. Would’ve been hot enough in the Middle East to slowly cook a person.
4)the fact that dinosaurs existed and no fossils have ever been found to prove they existed along with humans
5) the Grand Canyon. Many like to claim it was created during the flood and that the rock layers were from waves. I’d be really fascinated to know how each wave brought in a different type of of stone. I means there’s limestone, sandstone, shale, more limestone, more sandstone, oh and some granite. And volcanic ash and lava mixed in multiple layers but not all.

Then there’s the reality that scripture doesn’t say the earth was created on day 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6. It says the earth was created in the beginning. When was the beginning? Only God knows that just as only He knows the ending. We can scientifically say it’s really really old give or take a few million. Going by scripture, without adding speculation, you can only come to the conclusion that we have existed on the earth for 6-7000 years being that the genealogy record is the only thing we have to go off of for dating purposes.

So what we see today says the earth is old. The Bible doesn’t tell us the earth is young. I go off the evidence we have and it doesn’t contradict scripture. Old earth, young humans.

 

[Dino246]

Just to name a few:
1)Pretty much every type of radio metric dating unless it of course it is dating a biblical artifact

I don't know about archaeological dating of artifacts, but I do know about radiometric dating of rocks and fossils, which is rife with speculation, error, and corruption. When a single sample can produce "ages" ranging from thousands to hundreds of millions of years, something is not reliable in the methodology.

[QUOTE="Just_A__Follower, post: 5662396, member: 344912" 2)the fact that fossils aren’t produced in one year let alone the few days or maybe weeks that Mt. Everest would’ve been covered by water[/QUOTE]
Fossils can be produced in weeks, given the right conditions.

[QUOTE="Just_A__Follower, post: 5662396, member: 344912" 3)the fact that they found fossils of tropical plants under Antarctica which would have either meant Antarctica wasn’t always there or the entire earth was a lot hotter. Would’ve been hot enough in the Middle East to slowly cook a person.[/QUOTE]
Or the continents are not now where they were at the time of the flood.

[QUOTE="Just_A__Follower, post: 5662396, member: 344912" 4)the fact that dinosaurs existed and no fossils have ever been found to prove they existed along with humans[/QUOTE]
There are good explanations for that, and evidence strongly suggesting they did exist concurrently.

[QUOTE="Just_A__Follower, post: 5662396, member: 344912" 5) the Grand Canyon. Many like to claim it was created during the flood and that the rock layers were from waves. I’d be really fascinated to know how each wave brought in a different type of of stone. I means there’s limestone, sandstone, shale, more limestone, more sandstone, oh and some granite. And volcanic ash and lava mixed in multiple layers but not all.[/QUOTE]
You're using the worst examples of explanations; that's strawman fallacy argumentation. The Grand Canyon strata were likely created during the flood. The canyon itself was likely formed soon after, when a great interior lake ruptured its bank.

[QUOTE="Just_A__Follower, post: 5662396, member: 344912" Then there’s the reality that scripture doesn’t say the earth was created on day 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6. It says the earth was created in the beginning.[/QUOTE]
Exodus 20:6 states clearly that "in six days the Lord made the heaven and the earth". Most old-Earth proponents ignore that verse or try to explain it away.

[QUOTE="Just_A__Follower, post: 5662396, member: 344912" Going by scripture, without adding speculation, you can only come to the conclusion that we have existed on the earth for 6-7000 years being that the genealogy record is the only thing we have to go off of for dating purposes.

So what we see today says the earth is old. The Bible doesn’t tell us the earth is young. I go off the evidence we have and it doesn’t contradict scripture. Old earth, young humans.[/QUOTE]
"Old" and "young" are relative terms. To a human whose life expectancy is somewhere under 100 years, 6,000 years is old.

As for "evidence", most of the OE / atheistic interpretations of evidence are biased by anti-theistic propaganda.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

I don't know about archaeological dating of artifacts, but I do know about radiometric dating of rocks and fossils, which is rife with speculation, error, and corruption. When a single sample can produce "ages" ranging from thousands to hundreds of millions of years, something is not reliable in the methodology.

[QUOTE="Just_A__Follower, post: 5662396, member: 344912" 2)the fact that fossils aren’t produced in one year let alone the few days or maybe weeks that Mt. Everest would’ve been covered by water

I see you acquire all your research from Ken Ham and his buddies. I on the other hand prefer my information to come from actual scientists. Whether they’re atheists, Hindus, Jews, Christians, doesn’t really matter. I suggest you branch out a little and allow yourself to look at evidence without your mind being set on a 6000 year old earth.

I would love to see your evidence for dinosaurs and humans living together. I’d also be interested in learning why Noah didn’t load up a couple trexs and 120 foot titanosaurs when God said “all kinds”. I’ve heard some say they went extinct before the flood. I thinks it’s funny saying the largest meat eater on earth couldn’t survive but the chickens, cows, and sloths made it. Also interested in the reason God gave a meat eating dinosaur 12 inch pointed teeth if it was only eating plants. Saying dinosaurs existed with humans before the flood says that dinosaurs defied God also since fossilized dinosaurs have been found with animals inside their stomachs. All the animals were vegetarian except for the rebellious dinosaurs. That would kinda go against scripture unless of course dinosaurs existed in a previous creation before Adam.

And I’m guessing you meant exodus 20:11 or exodus 31:17. Neither verse says that God created the earth in 6 days. They both say “made” aka formed. The Bible does not say the earth was “created” in six days.

 

[Dino246]

Fossils can be produced in weeks, given the right conditions.

[QUOTE="Just_A__Follower, post: 5662396, member: 344912" 3)the fact that they found fossils of tropical plants under Antarctica which would have either meant Antarctica wasn’t always there or the entire earth was a lot hotter. Would’ve been hot enough in the Middle East to slowly cook a person.

Or the continents are not now where they were at the time of the flood.

[QUOTE="Just_A__Follower, post: 5662396, member: 344912" 4)the fact that dinosaurs existed and no fossils have ever been found to prove they existed along with humans[/QUOTE]
There are good explanations for that, and evidence strongly suggesting they did exist concurrently.

[QUOTE="Just_A__Follower, post: 5662396, member: 344912" 5) the Grand Canyon. Many like to claim it was created during the flood and that the rock layers were from waves. I’d be really fascinated to know how each wave brought in a different type of of stone. I means there’s limestone, sandstone, shale, more limestone, more sandstone, oh and some granite. And volcanic ash and lava mixed in multiple layers but not all.[/QUOTE]
You're using the worst examples of explanations; that's strawman fallacy argumentation. The Grand Canyon strata were likely created during the flood. The canyon itself was likely formed soon after, when a great interior lake ruptured its bank.

[QUOTE="Just_A__Follower, post: 5662396, member: 344912" Then there’s the reality that scripture doesn’t say the earth was created on day 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6. It says the earth was created in the beginning.[/QUOTE]
Exodus 20:6 states clearly that "in six days the Lord made the heaven and the earth". Most old-Earth proponents ignore that verse or try to explain it away.

[QUOTE="Just_A__Follower, post: 5662396, member: 344912" Going by scripture, without adding speculation, you can only come to the conclusion that we have existed on the earth for 6-7000 years being that the genealogy record is the only thing we have to go off of for dating purposes.

So what we see today says the earth is old. The Bible doesn’t tell us the earth is young. I go off the evidence we have and it doesn’t contradict scripture. Old earth, young humans.[/QUOTE]
I see you acquire all your research from Ken Ham and his buddies. I on the other hand prefer my information to come from actual scientists. Whether they’re atheists, Hindus, Jews, Christians, doesn’t really matter. I suggest you branch out a little and allow yourself to look at evidence without your mind being set on a 6000 year old earth.

I would love to see your evidence for dinosaurs and humans living together. I’d also be interested in learning why Noah didn’t load up a couple trexs and 120 foot titanosaurs when God said “all kinds”. I’ve heard some say they went extinct before the flood. I thinks it’s funny saying the largest meat eater on earth couldn’t survive but the chickens, cows, and sloths made it. Also interested in the reason God gave a meat eating dinosaur 12 inch pointed teeth if it was only eating plants. Saying dinosaurs existed with humans before the flood says that dinosaurs defied God also since fossilized dinosaurs have been found with animals inside their stomachs. All the animals were vegetarian except for the rebellious dinosaurs. That would kinda go against scripture unless of course dinosaurs existed in a previous creation before Adam.

And I’m guessing you meant exodus 20:11 or exodus 31:17. Neither verse says that God created the earth in 6 days. They both say “made” aka formed. The Bible does not say the earth was “created” in six days.[/QUOTE]
I see your mind is closed so there’s no point in continuing.

Peace.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

[QUOTE="Dino246, post: 5662704, member: I see your mind is closed so there’s no point in continuing.[/QUOTE]

no actually my mind is wide open. Which is why I said I would like to hear more about the dinosaurs living with human evidence. I’m all ears. Please share.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

I see your mind is closed so there’s no point in continuing.

Peace.

There are many Christians, and I’m not saying you’re one of them, that say scientists are just atheists trying making up things to prove God’s not real. I’m sure that there are a few that are doing that. But your everyday geologist is digging for fossils because that is his or her passion. The only motive behind their work is to learn something new and to make a new discovery to get their name in a paper. This is true across most scientists. Not all of them are out to disprove Christianity. They make discoveries and simply provide their findings. We have to look at evidence the same way, not to prove or disprove God but to learn something new. I see science as simply the study of His creation and the processes He uses. I love it. It’s truly amazing how He puts things together and how every little piece of His creation has a purpose. I watch a beaver do their thing and it amazes me how one animal can use their teeth to create a lake. Something humans still fail at with millions of dollars worth of equipment and design. I watch cumulonimbus clouds form on the horizon and anvil out at around 40k feet so that the trees can get water to grow so the beavers and cut them down to build a dam and it amazes me. Humans are worried about creating clean electricity and He created an eel that basically has onboard batteries to create their own electricity. That’s amazing. He designed air to change density based upon temperature so that the wind would blow the seeds from the flowers so the flowers could spread and flourish. And the One that created all this amazement loves us. That amazes me the most. Science can’t be used to disprove the One that created it. Science is the study of God Himself. That would be like studying humans to prove they don’t exist.