Did God occupy any space before creation?

[posthuman]

They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

It sounds like the heavens are a garment God wears on his invisible body of space

i don't see anything here indicating God "wears" the universe.
the simile is the aspect of decay, and the text does not say "Your" garment.
does God clothe Himself with decay? no. He clothed Himself with flesh, but per the Psalm, that flesh has no corruption. Jesus did not decompose in the grave.

in a other place the earth is likened to His footstool. do you ever get up in the morning, put on your ottoman, and go out to work?

 

[posthuman]

Define space, and explain why it cannot be God.

define time and explain why it cannot be God.

Which scriptures say God created time and space?

space is void 1.

time is a sequence of arrangements of the relative position of all the baryonic and non baryonic substance in the universe.

Genesis 1:1

 

[PaulThomson]

Now i understand you better as to why are you asking this question.
It looks like you're interpreting certain verses in a different way while also ignoring what we are able to see and measure.
This is the equivalent of the typical Young Earth vs Old Earth discussion.

I have no idea what that means.

But here is another text that from my perspective is possibly saying that space is God. Not that God is space, but that space is God's body.

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Did God occupy any space before creation?

Which Creation?
The Creation of His Eternal Kingdom where Jesus told us there's many mansions, the Heavenly Temple, home of the Angels?
The Creation of the Universe, Earth, life on Earth?

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth only speaks about the Universe to which Earth and we live in. It does not speak about God's Heavenly kingdom?

But God did indeed occupy the space we know as the Heavenly Kingdom where many mansions are waiting for us.

 

[PaulThomson]

does God clothe Himself with decay? no.

The cross would show that this conclusion is wrong. Gd created the world and saw that it was very good. So, one could say that the garment was originally not corrupt. It became corrupt and decaying. However, God did not immediately discard it, but condescended to keep on wearing it in order to rescue some mementos from it to keep forever. God did not resile from putting on our sin as a garment in Christ on the cross.

Zec. 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

5 And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord stood by.

6 And the angel of the Lord protested unto Joshua, saying,

7 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.

8 Hear no


So, I don't think your rebuttal here holds biblically.

 

[PaulThomson]

does God clothe Himself with decay? no.

The cross would show that this conclusion is wrong. God created the world and saw that it was very good. So, one could say that the garment was originally not corrupt. It became corrupt and decaying. However, God did not immediately discard it, but condescended to keep on wearing it in order to rescue some mementos from it to keep forever. God did not resile from putting on our sin as a garment in Christ on the cross.

Zec. 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

5 And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord stood by.

6 And the angel of the Lord protested unto Joshua, saying,

7 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.

So, I don't think your rebuttal here holds biblically.

 

[PaulThomson]

space is void 1.

time is a sequence of arrangements of the relative position of all the baryonic and non baryonic substance in the universe.

Genesis 1:1

Do reason and conversation between persons require that thinking and speech be logical and sequential? If the Father and Son conversed and planned before creation, would that constitute a sequence of arrangements of non-baryonic substances?

 

[maxwel]

Does God have size? If God has size, how big is He? If God has size now, was God always this big?

God is spirit... that means he is non-spatial.

Space is not a category of measure that applies to God.


Take care everyone.
.

 

[PaulThomson]

Did God occupy any space before creation?

Which Creation?
The Creation of His Eternal Kingdom where Jesus told us there's many mansions, the Heavenly Temple, home of the Angels?
The Creation of the Universe, Earth, life on Earth?

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth only speaks about the Universe to which Earth and we live in. It does not speak about God's Heavenly kingdom?

But God did indeed occupy the space we know as the Heavenly Kingdom where many mansions are waiting for us.

"Which Creation" ?

All and every creation.

 

[PaulThomson]

the best idea we have now of the nature of the universe is that space itself is expanding.
void 1 is growing, fling up more of void 0.

Like lungs expanding when we breathe in?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

"Which Creation" ?

All and every creation.

Before God created His own Kingdom and then the Universe there would logically be nothing but God before all of that. So the space occupied by God is God. He occupied Himself.

 

[PaulThomson]

God is spirit... that means he is non-spatial.

Space is not a category of measure that applies to God.


Take care everyone.
.

Where does scripture say God is non-spatial?
John say God is love.
Paul prays that we would know the height, length and breadth and depth of God's love.

Sounds spatial but immaterial to me.

 

[PaulThomson]

Before God created His own Kingdom and then the Universe there would logically be nothing but God before all of that. So the space occupied by God is God. He occupied Himself.

Indeed. Like I occupy my material body, from my perspective, it seems reasonable and biblically inferred by the texts I have cited, that God could inhabit an immaterial body, the dimension or dimensions we call space.

 

[maxwel]

Where does scripture say God is non-spatial?
John say God is love.
Paul prays that we would know the height, length and breadth and depth of God's love.

Sounds spatial but immaterial to me.

Here's a fun exercise:

1. Consider the concept of "love."
2. Now, tell us all just exactly where, in time and space, this concept resides. If you can measure it with a tape measure, and weigh it on a scale, and tell us where exactly it is so we can get a picture... now that would prove your point.

But if you cannot measure, weigh, or spatially locate love... then you need to try a better argument.



God Bless.

(BTW: This issue is not new in Christendom, and it's been thoroughly studied by the greatest Christian minds for millennia, and it isn't the kind of mysterious or difficult issue that trained pastors debate or worry about. It's a non issue. So if anyone wants to argue endlessly against the orthodox position which is well understood, I'll leave you all to do some reading. I won't stick around and argue.)


.

 

[posthuman]

The cross would show that this conclusion is wrong. Gd created the world and saw that it was very good. So, one could say that the garment was originally not corrupt. It became corrupt and decaying. However, God did not immediately discard it, but condescended to keep on wearing it in order to rescue some mementos from it to keep forever. God did not resile from putting on our sin as a garment in Christ on the cross.

there is no sin in Him, period. He carried our sin, but this doesn't mean He took corruption upon Himself.

if the Lamb has any blemish, it is not an acceptable sacrifice.

by becoming human Christ did not become corrupt.

 

[posthuman]

Do reason and conversation between persons require that thinking and speech be logical and sequential? If the Father and Son conversed and planned before creation, would that constitute a sequence of arrangements of non-baryonic substances?

why would you imagine infinite God requires 'time to think'??

you're anthropomorphizing, imo

 

[posthuman]

Like lungs expanding when we breathe in?

no.

 

[posthuman]

Where does scripture say God is non-spatial?
John say God is love.
Paul prays that we would know the height, length and breadth and depth of God's love.

Sounds spatial but immaterial to me.

how many dimensions does love have?

 

[posthuman]

Do reason and conversation between persons require that thinking and speech be logical and sequential? If the Father and Son conversed and planned before creation, would that constitute a sequence of arrangements of non-baryonic substances?

let me explain more:

God is neither baryonic nor non baryonic; those are created things. matter & energy.

God is Spirit.

so, no. a "conversation between the God head" i.e. a thought of God, doesn't consist of a time interval.

 

[PaulThomson]

there is no sin in Him, period. He carried our sin, but this doesn't mean He took corruption upon Himself.

if the Lamb has any blemish, it is not an acceptable sacrifice.

by becoming human Christ did not become corrupt.

I didn't say God became corrupt by wearing a fallen creation; nor that God became corrupt by bearing our sin. Both are garments God, though holy, did not disdain from associating Himself with.