Did God occupy any space before creation?

[PaulThomson]

Genesis should read, “In A beginning.” There are several beginnings in Scripture, but the one that begins the book of John is closer to THE beginning. However, since He is described as having NO beginning or end, it still leaves room for speculation, and as curious creatures, we love to speculate.

That is correct. In a beginning God created the heavens and the earth. But that does not answer my question.

PaulThomson said:
Where does scripture say God created space ? I don't see that anywhere. I do see that He created things that occupy space: the heavens and the earth..

 

[PaulThomson]

Genesis should read, “In A beginning.” There are several beginnings in Scripture, but the one that begins the book of John is closer to THE beginning. However, since He is described as having NO beginning or end, it still leaves room for speculation, and as curious creatures, we love to speculate.

That is correct. In a beginning God created the heavens and the earth. But that does not answer my question.

PaulThomson said:
Where does scripture say God created space ? I don't see that anywhere. I do see that He created things that occupy space: the heavens and the earth..

 

[Sipsey]

That is correct. In a beginning God created the heavens and the earth. But that does not answer my question.

PaulThomson said:
Where does scripture say God created space ? I don't see that anywhere. I do see that He created things that occupy space: the heavens and the earth..

I think the term “everthing” encompasses space also.

 

[PaulThomson]

Genesis should read, “In A beginning.” There are several beginnings in Scripture, but the one that begins the book of John is closer to THE beginning. However, since He is described as having NO beginning or end, it still leaves room for speculation, and as curious creatures, we love to speculate.

That is correct. In a beginning God created the heavens and the earth. But that does not answer my question.

PaulThomson said:
Where does scripture say God created space ? I don't see that anywhere. I do see that He created things that occupy space: the heavens and the earth.

Space sounds quite divine to me.

Space Meriam Webster
definition 4
a
: a boundless three-dimensional extent in which objects and events occur and have relative position and direction
infinite space and time

b
: physical space independent of what occupies it
called also absolute space

 

[Sipsey]

That is correct. In a beginning God created the heavens and the earth. But that does not answer my question.

PaulThomson said:
Where does scripture say God created space ? I don't see that anywhere. I do see that He created things that occupy space: the heavens and the earth.

Space sounds quite divine to me.

Space Meriam Webster
definition 4
a
: a boundless three-dimensional extent in which objects and events occur and have relative position and direction
infinite space and time

b
: physical space independent of what occupies it
called also absolute space

Everything was created by Him, everything in heaven and on earth, everything seen and unseen, including all forces and powers, and all rulers and authorities. All things were created by God's Son, and everything was made for Him.

 

[Jimbone]

What do you mean by "space as we understand it"?

What do you mean by, "what do you mean"?

 

[PaulThomson]

Everything was created by Him, everything in heaven and on earth, everything seen and unseen, including all forces and powers, and all rulers and authorities. All things were created by God's Son, and everything was made for Him.

I think the term “everthing” encompasses space also.

Space is not a thing. It is the vacuum of nothingness in which all created things subsist, and in which we live and move and have our being.

Space Meriam Webster
definition 4
a
: a boundless three-dimensional extent in which objects and events occur and have relative position and direction
infinite space and time

b
: physical space independent of what occupies it
called also absolute space

REPLY

 

[PaulThomson]

What do you mean by, "what do you mean"?

I mean, who is "we" and where did that knowledge come from? And why can "we" be certain that that knowledge is accurate?

 

[Mem]

Are we being led to conclude here that God is space?

 

[Eli1]

Does God have size? If God has size, how big is He? If God has size now, was God always this big?

Logically Yes, He does have some sort of size. Practically it's a different story.
We are like fish in a bowl contemplating what's outside the bowl.
It's impossible to know this answer until revealed so not sure why you're asking.

1 John 3:2.

 

[PaulThomson]

Everything was created by Him, everything in heaven and on earth, everything seen and unseen, including all forces and powers, and all rulers and authorities. All things were created by God's Son, and everything was made for Him.

Vacuum -
1: emptiness of space


2a: a space absolutely devoid of matter

Empty -
1a: containing nothing

I think you are pushing it to consider nothing some thing. It is the absence of things.

Space is medium within which everything exists. Does the Bible call the emptiness of space a thing?

 

[posthuman]

Vacuum -
1: emptiness of space


2a: a space absolutely devoid of matter

Empty -
1a: containing nothing

I think you are pushing it to consider nothing some thing. It is the absence of things.

Space is medium within which everything exists. Does the Bible call the emptiness of space a thing?

some needed astrophysics vocabulary:

void 0 is the absence of space.
void 1 is empty space.

 

[Sipsey]

Space is not a thing. It is the vacuum of nothingness in which all created things subsist, and in which we live and move and have our being.

Space Meriam Webster
definition 4
a
: a boundless three-dimensional extent in which objects and events occur and have relative position and direction
infinite space and time

b
: physical space independent of what occupies it
called also absolute space

REPLY

This is where we disagree:
Yes, the term "everything" would encompass space when used in a broad, all-inclusive sense. Space is part of the totality of existence and reality, so it is included within the scope of the word "everything."

Space refers to the vast expanse or extension in which all material objects and events occur. It is one of the fundamental aspects or arenas of the universe, along with time, matter, and energy.

So when someone refers to "everything" without any qualifiers or limitations, that broad term by definition includes space, since space is an essential part of the totality of what exists in reality. The only way space would be excluded is if "everything" was explicitly defined or constrained to a more limited domain that specifically omits space.

But in general usage, "everything" casts the widest possible net, encompassing all aspects of existence, including the dimensions and extent of space itself. So in that all-encompassing sense, yes, "everything" absolutely includes and accounts for space.

 

[PaulThomson]

Logically Yes, He does have some sort of size. Practically it's a different story.
We are like fish in a bowl contemplating what's outside the bowl.
It's impossible to know this answer until revealed so not sure why you're asking.

1 John 3:2.

The reason I am asking is because the nature of space is easier to describe than the nature of time, but many people consider the universe to exist within a limited space-time continuum. Such people should be able to countenance that if our universe's space is limited, there must be some space outside the boundaries of our space.

This is where we disagree:
Yes, the term "everything" would encompass space when used in a broad, all-inclusive sense. Space is part of the totality of existence and reality, so it is included within the scope of the word "everything."

Space refers to the vast expanse or extension in which all material objects and events occur. It is one of the fundamental aspects or arenas of the universe, along with time, matter, and energy.

So when someone refers to "everything" without any qualifiers or limitations, that broad term by definition includes space, since space is an essential part of the totality of what exists in reality. The only way space would be excluded is if "everything" was explicitly defined or constrained to a more limited domain that specifically omits space.

But in general usage, "everything" casts the widest possible net, encompassing all aspects of existence, including the dimensions and extent of space itself. So in that all-encompassing sense, yes, "everything" absolutely includes and accounts for space.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the semantics here.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Does God have size? If God has size, how big is He? If God has size now, was God always this big?

And more importantly, how many Angels CAN dance on the head of a pin???

 

[Eli1]

The reason I am asking is because the nature of space is easier to describe than the nature of time, but many people consider the universe to exist within a limited space-time continuum. Such people should be able to countenance that if our universe's space is limited, there must be some space outside the boundaries of our space.

Yes, exactly. Logic tells you that before the Big Bang there was "something" outside, but this possibility is impossible to verify from our point of view unless revealed by God.

 

[posthuman]

some needed astrophysics vocabulary:

void 0 is the absence of space.
void 1 is empty space.

important to note:

the best idea we have now of the nature of the universe is that space itself is expanding.
void 1 is growing, fling up more of void 0.

the 'big bang' isn't things inside of space getting further apart, it's space itself expanding from not existing at all to ever increasing. to wit, God stretching out the heavens like a tent.

so space itself very much is a thing, a created thing. see Genesis 1:1, and current astrophysics models agree. there was nothing, not even space, and then all things appear to have emenated out of a single point and were stretched out from there.

 

[PaulThomson]

Yes, exactly. Logic tells you that before the Big Bang there was "something" outside, but this possibility is impossible to verify from our point of view unless revealed by God.

10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

It sounds like the heavens are a garment God wears on his invisible body of space

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

It sounds like space is not a created thing.

Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

It sounds like God is like space. We live and move and have our being in God. And we live and move and have our being in space.

Space could be God's uncreated invisible body. Astronauts report having a heightened sense of awe when in the vacuum of space.

 

[Jimbone]

I mean, who is "we" and where did that knowledge come from? And why can "we" be certain that that knowledge is accurate?

Not sure exactly what you mean by "we".
Like a French yes?

 

[Eli1]

10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

It sounds like the heavens are a garment God wears on his invisible body of space

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

It sounds like space is not a created thing.

Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

It sounds like God is like space. We live and move and have our being in God. And we live and move and have our being in space.

Space could be God's uncreated invisible body. Astronauts report having a heightened sense of awe when in the vacuum of space.

Now i understand you better as to why are you asking this question.
It looks like you're interpreting certain verses in a different way while also ignoring what we are able to see and measure.
This is the equivalent of the typical Young Earth vs Old Earth discussion.