Christians Are Not Sinners

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Then put your money where your MOUTH is. Provide actual evidence, or you are a LIAR.

Besides your rant on this thread page ? As you try to cover what is your hypersensitive reaction to a question pages back that CLEARLY asked if there are members here who argue,teach, Jesus was just a man with a sin nature who chose not to sin?

That question wasn't worded as it is now. So why didn't you just answer my question when I initially asked you to clarify?

Overlooking the question though , you go off asking if I'm implying something about you and this forum.

Yes, why did you overlook the question repeatedly? Are you now aware of how your comments come across? Maybe you should at least read before posting.

Ignored the actual question.

Yes, that is what you did. I didn't ignore your question. I didn't understand it, and asked for clarification, which you ignored.

Instead you accused me of not being clear in asking the question you didn't comprehend

Accused?? Boy are YOU hypersensitive. If you can't tolerate questions about your confusing questions, you need to take a break.

Proof? Of instability? Start at page 19. Find your post and move forward.

Let me remind you of the fact that I claimed that YOU made false claims about me, so I challenged YOU to prove your false claims. Or, if you can't, won't, etc, then you will have proved YOURSELF a LIAR.

You're so angry you lash out at your own delusion. That is pathetic.

No, I'll tell you what is truly pathetic. Thinking you can read my mind and then accuse me of being "so angry". Instead, I laugh at your childish retorts when challenged to prove what you claim.

Instead of even trying to, you simply try to 'read my mind' , and tell me what my emotions are. That is truly pathetic.

And you still don't understand my question.

No, now that you FINALLY did rephrase it, I do understand it.

Not because it was ever garbled.

Obviously you don't proofread your posts before posting.

Rather it appears you feel guilty about something you inferred was in my post about your involvement in this community. That was all you.

More pathetic guessing. It takes a whole lot of arrogance to claim what someone else is feeling or thinking.

My asking,wording, ''Have you members here....'' [''who teach ,believe Jesus was just a man.....''], was the same as asking, ''are there members here....''

That wasn't the question. Go back to page 18 and find it and read it.

You went off on a tangent of your own imagination thinking I was accusing you of something?

How about just reading what you have posted here, Mr. Tangent?

You are right though in one respect alone.

You demonstrate yourself to be free of grace.

Given how you're reacted from the very first post asking for clarification, you have clearly demonstrated that you either know nothing about grace, or just don't care. You could have just rephased when I first asked for clarification. But instead, you went off on a tangent.

And that's why you sound like the enemies who post their screeds on this forum. Sometimes you're rational. Sometimes not.

It seems you have no problem LYING. Maybe you ease your guilt by saying it's an "educated guess". Prove that I have made irrational posts. Let's see what YOU claim is irrational.

I don't care if you accept this post. You're a tragedy.

You need a lesson in grace. Desperate need.

You posed a question that didn't make sense and I asked for clarification. What has ensued since then is just a mess of posts, or better, diatribes. One thing is clear; you are extremely hypersensitive, to the extent that my confusion over your ill worded question is seen by you as an attack against you.

Sad.

 

[EDENgate]

FreeGrace2 said:
Then put your money where your MOUTH is. Provide actual evidence, or you are a LIAR.

That question wasn't worded as it is now. So why didn't you just answer my question when I initially asked you to clarify?


Yes, why did you overlook the question repeatedly? Are you now aware of how your comments come across? Maybe you should at least read before posting.


Yes, that is what you did. I didn't ignore your question. I didn't understand it, and asked for clarification, which you ignored.


Accused?? Boy are YOU hypersensitive. If you can't tolerate questions about your confusing questions, you need to take a break.


Let me remind you of the fact that I claimed that YOU made false claims about me, so I challenged YOU to prove your false claims. Or, if you can't, won't, etc, then you will have proved YOURSELF a LIAR.


No, I'll tell you what is truly pathetic. Thinking you can read my mind and then accuse me of being "so angry". Instead, I laugh at your childish retorts when challenged to prove what you claim.

Instead of even trying to, you simply try to 'read my mind' , and tell me what my emotions are. That is truly pathetic.


No, now that you FINALLY did rephrase it, I do understand it.


Obviously you don't proofread your posts before posting.


More pathetic guessing. It takes a whole lot of arrogance to claim what someone else is feeling or thinking.


That wasn't the question. Go back to page 18 and find it and read it.


How about just reading what you have posted here, Mr. Tangent?


Given how you're reacted from the very first post asking for clarification, you have clearly demonstrated that you either know nothing about grace, or just don't care. You could have just rephased when I first asked for clarification. But instead, you went off on a tangent.


It seems you have no problem LYING. Maybe you ease your guilt by saying it's an "educated guess". Prove that I have made irrational posts. Let's see what YOU claim is irrational.


You need a lesson in grace. Desperate need.

You posed a question that didn't make sense and I asked for clarification. What has ensued since then is just a mess of posts, or better, diatribes. One thing is clear; you are extremely hypersensitive, to the extent that my confusion over your ill worded question is seen by you as an attack against you.

Sad.

And you call others liar?
You're Satanic. And mentally unbalanced.
Calling me a liar doesn't change that. And you get away with personal attacks because your other account is a Moderator. No wonder you act like Satan when it suits.

Liar! Repeat that as often as you like. Your reading comprehension deficit remains obvious.

You couldn't understand the first question. Now, like a child, you call names to avoid the fact you're not well read nor do you care to read carefully the posts of others.

Copying and pasting excerpts from Bible study sites to argue Exegesis is your other obvious tactic to hide that fact. And no link credits to the source.


There are more demons on this site than saints. You being one.

I wish the Saints God's protection.

And you and your Fellow Demons God's speed to your just deserts after you finish faking your way among Christians that see you for what you are. You, Running man VARob etc....

You are a tragedy.
Eternally.

Goodbye family in Christ.

The Demons here have you outnumbered.

 

[Runningman]

Well, that escalated quickly. Now , according to @EDENgate , humans, Christians no less, are demons. Where have I heard that before?

There are many disagreements but your continued attacks on Christians is appalling. FG2 is a Christian, as am I, and many others here. Smh.

 

[TMS]

All of us are sinners and have inherited a currupt nature.
Adam passed on the sinful nature.
All of us have sinned and fallen short. Sin = death, which means we are all in need of Jesus.
When we are glorified and transformed back into the perfect image of God sin will no longer be an issue in our natures.

Even as a born again christian, I'll admit that i struggle with sin.
My flesh is fighting against the Spirit.
But i know i can be secure in Jesus by faith in His grace.

So I'm a sinner saved by grace.

If you are not a sinner you don't need grace.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Then put your money where your MOUTH is. Provide actual evidence, or you are a LIAR.

That question wasn't worded as it is now. So why didn't you just answer my question when I initially asked you to clarify?

And you call others liar?

Only when they LIE.

You're Satanic. And mentally unbalanced.

Wow. What a way to address a fellow believer.

I think you should take a break. Seems your seams are coming apart.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Well, that escalated quickly. Now , according to @EDENgate , humans, Christians no less, are demons. Where have I heard that before?

Well, consider this at the bottom of his posts:

Do Christians Have A Sin Nature? (Absolutely not!)

Paul spoke of his own sin nature. Obviously that poster is a troll.

There are many disagreements but your continued attacks on Christians is appalling. FG2 is a Christian, as am I, and many others here. Smh.

Thanks for noting!

 

[Mem]

 

[Snacks]

Neither myself nor the op have ever said we are sinless...we have only stated that scripture says God sees us as sinless through His Son if we belong to Him

Oh boy, Einstein strikes again. There’s a monumental difference between denying being a sinner and being seen as sinless by God. I acknowledge being a sinner saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. How is that possible? Because God sees me as sinless. You see how easy it is to acknowledge both truths?

And I don’t know if anyone else has done so, but I never accused you of stating that you denied being a sinner so place your false accusations against me wherever it feels good. Once again, try knowing what you’re talking about lest you continue to act the fool.

 

[Runningman]

I thought everyone who reads the Bible a lot knew this:

1 John 1:8-10
8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

 

[Polar]

 

[montana123]

Christians are not sinners because they are led of the Holy Spirit and a Spirit led person will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts and show the ways of the Spirit and not the flesh and God will not allow them to be tempted above what they are able and will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.

So there is no excuse why a person cannot abstain from sin.

A Spirit led person is not under the law because they are not sinning therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

We might sin after we are saved for we still have the choice to sin and if we do sin we should repent of it not wanting the sin again and move forward in the Spirit.

When we sin we forfeit repentance because we are not turning away from sin and we must repent of the sin and be led of the Spirit.

If a person wilfully sins after they have received the knowledge of the truth there is no more sacrifice for sins which means if they hold on to sin the blood of Jesus cannot wash it away for God will not take away a sin from someone that holds on to a sin.

The Bible says some people have a form of godliness but they deny the power thereof ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth which turn away from these people.

Some people have a form of living for God but they deny the Spirit leading them because they are led of the flesh and do not think that sins hinder their relationship with God but they hold on to sin and think they are alright with God.

They make an excuse that their sins will not cause them to lose salvation when there is no excuse why a person cannot abstain from sin for they can have the Spirit.

Turn away from these people for there hypocrisy in sinning is not the Christian way for Christ was sinless and God said be ye holy for I am holy.

There are millions of people that claim to be with Jesus that hold on to sin and believe they are alright with God making an excuse for their sin that they cannot abstain from sin but they do not try to abstain from sin but do it wilfully and then want to say they cannot abstain from sin.

Their hypocrisy of holding on to sin causes the world to call them hypocrites for even the world knows it is not right.

 

[Polar]

Oh boy, Einstein strikes again. There’s a monumental difference between denying being a sinner and being seen as sinless by God. I acknowledge being a sinner saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. How is that possible? Because God sees me as sinless. You see how easy it is to acknowledge both truths?

And I don’t know if anyone else has done so, but I never accused you of stating that you denied being a sinner so place your false accusations against me wherever it feels good. Once again, try knowing what you’re talking about lest you continue to act the fool.

you know, you might finally be catching on. I have repeatedly said that very thing. God sees us as sinless, but that does not mean we never sin.

the expression 'sinner saved by grace' is not in scripture but people continue to say it as if it was some sort of prize. It is actually not a good expression as people tend to act in accordance to how they view themselves. That has also been repeated numerous times...I won't get into the psychological aspects of that even though I am quite intelligent as you said several times now in your posts to me

you are now actually agreeing with what I have said but try to make it seem that I had it all wrong, yet here you are saying what I have said. smh

dude...I find you more than just a little disagreeable. your silly remarks to me just indicate somesome with a low tolerance for anyone who points out their error. I have changed how I think and view scripture through correction and seeing my error and do not blame others for my mistakes as it seems apparent that you are now doing.

I suppose you will come back with more of your rhetoric and we shall all be educated, once again, on your opinion of me. your opinion of me is not what matters. see, I know I am a new creation in Christ as are all believers and that even means you. However, you seem to be very short on displaying the fruit of a nature changed by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Polar]

Several places in Scripture refer to believers being “in Christ” (1 Peter 5:14; Philippians 1:1; Romans 8:1). Colossians 3:3 gives a little more insight: “For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.” When we come to Christ as broken sinners, He exchanges our sin for His righteousness (2 Corinthians 5:21).

Through repentance and acceptance of Jesus’ death on our behalf, we are even called His children (John 1:12; Galatians 3:26). God no longer sees our imperfections; He sees the righteousness of His own Son instead (Ephesians 2:13; Hebrews 8:12). Because we are in Christ, God sees Christ’s righteousness covering us. Only “in Christ” is our sin debt cancelled, our relationship with God restored, and our eternity secured (John 3:16–18; 20:31). In Christ, God sees me as a new creation: “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come” (2 Corinthians 5:17). We have peace with God and are counted as righteous before Him (verses 17–21). Rather than seeing my sin, God sees the righteousness of His Son. He sees me as justified, redeemed, sanctified, even glorified (see Romans 8:30).

In Ephesians 1:3–14 we learn some of the ways God sees us in Christ. God “has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places” (verse 3). We are equipped with all we need. We are chosen to “be holy and blameless before [God]” (verse 4). We are seen as holy and blameless because we are in Christ (cf. 2 Corinthians 3:18).
see Got Questions

 

[Snacks]

you know, you might finally be catching on. I have repeatedly said that very thing. God sees us as sinless, but that does not mean we never sin.

the expression 'sinner saved by grace' is not in scripture but people continue to say it as if it was some sort of prize. It is actually not a good expression as people tend to act in accordance to how they view themselves. That has also been repeated numerous times...I won't get into the psychological aspects of that even though I am quite intelligent as you said several times now in your posts to me

you are now actually agreeing with what I have said but try to make it seem that I had it all wrong, yet here you are saying what I have said. smh

dude...I find you more than just a little disagreeable. your silly remarks to me just indicate somesome with a low tolerance for anyone who points out their error. I have changed how I think and view scripture through correction and seeing my error and do not blame others for my mistakes as it seems apparent that you are now doing.

I suppose you will come back with more of your rhetoric and we shall all be educated, once again, on your opinion of me. your opinion of me is not what matters. see, I know I am a new creation in Christ as are all believers and that even means you. However, you seem to be very short on displaying the fruit of a nature changed by the Holy Spirit.

Yeah, whatever Reinstein.

 

[Polar]

Yeah, whatever Reinstein.

do you also laugh at the scriptures that have been posted twice that indicate what I have been saying since the inception of this thread?

smh

 

[VARob]

So there is no excuse why a person cannot abstain from sin.

Do you still sin? If you still sin, you're a sinner. If you think you don't, you're deceived.

Their hypocrisy of holding on to sin causes the world to call them hypocrites for even the world knows it is not right.

The hypocrisy and deception belong to those who think they no longer sin. Even the world knows they do.

I'm not condoning my sins. I try not to sin. I think I get better at it all the time. But I don't pretend that I've "arrived," either.

I'm a sinner saved by grace.

 

[Polar]

Christians are not sinners because they are led of the Holy Spirit and a Spirit led person will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts and show the ways of the Spirit and not the flesh and God will not allow them to be tempted above what they are able and will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.

So there is no excuse why a person cannot abstain from sin.

A Spirit led person is not under the law because they are not sinning therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

We might sin after we are saved for we still have the choice to sin and if we do sin we should repent of it not wanting the sin again and move forward in the Spirit.

When we sin we forfeit repentance because we are not turning away from sin and we must repent of the sin and be led of the Spirit.

If a person wilfully sins after they have received the knowledge of the truth there is no more sacrifice for sins which means if they hold on to sin the blood of Jesus cannot wash it away for God will not take away a sin from someone that holds on to a sin.

The Bible says some people have a form of godliness but they deny the power thereof ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth which turn away from these people.

Some people have a form of living for God but they deny the Spirit leading them because they are led of the flesh and do not think that sins hinder their relationship with God but they hold on to sin and think they are alright with God.

They make an excuse that their sins will not cause them to lose salvation when there is no excuse why a person cannot abstain from sin for they can have the Spirit.

Turn away from these people for there hypocrisy in sinning is not the Christian way for Christ was sinless and God said be ye holy for I am holy.

There are millions of people that claim to be with Jesus that hold on to sin and believe they are alright with God making an excuse for their sin that they cannot abstain from sin but they do not try to abstain from sin but do it wilfully and then want to say they cannot abstain from sin.

Their hypocrisy of holding on to sin causes the world to call them hypocrites for even the world knows it is not right.

I would disagree with your post. I maintain that God does not see believers as sinners any longer, but righteous in Christ, As long as we are on this earth and not translated, we will sin though. Actually, I don't think we quite understand just how sinful we are and all that offends God who is holy and does not allow any sin whatsoever anywhere near Him.

Jesus died for our sins and suffered in ways we cannot understand because he never sinned...He was like His Father while on this earth yet He took on the task before Him, even praying to the point of drops of blood, that His Father might 'let this cup pass from Him' and saying that even so, the will of God be done.

So there is no excuse why a person cannot abstain from sin.

where does scripture say this? nowhere is where. In fact, John says that if we say we have no sin, we are a liar. it seems to me you have convoluted a number of verses to create a somewhat misleading post

A Spirit led person is not under the law

even a newborn Christian is not under the law. sanctification is misunderstood.. it is not an instant occurrence; it is a process.

When we sin we forfeit repentance because we are not turning away from sin and we must repent of the sin and be led of the Spirit.

sigh...no, salvation is not dependent on our ability to not sin. our salvation is ONLY dependent on our faith in Christ. first off, you state a Spirit led person does not sin; here, you seem to suggest we must be 'born again' every time we do sin...do I misunderstand you?

I don't think I need to respond to the rest of your post as the foregoing is reflected in your conclusion

 

[VARob]

I would disagree with your post. I maintain that God does not see believers as sinners any longer, but righteous in Christ, As long as we are on this earth and not translated, we will sin though. Actually, I don't think we quite understand just how sinful we are and all that offends God who is holy and does not allow any sin whatsoever anywhere near Him.

Jesus died for our sins and suffered in ways we cannot understand because he never sinned...He was like His Father while on this earth yet He took on the task before Him, even praying to the point of drops of blood, that His Father might 'let this cup pass from Him' and saying that even so, the will of God be done.

where does scripture say this? nowhere is where. In fact, John says that if we say we have no sin, we are a liar. it seems to me you have convoluted a number of verses to create a somewhat misleading post

even a newborn Christian is not under the law. sanctification is misunderstood.. it is not an instant occurrence; it is a process.

sigh...no, salvation is not dependent on our ability to not sin. our salvation is ONLY dependent on our faith in Christ. first off, you state a Spirit led person does not sin; here, you seem to suggest we must be 'born again' every time we do sin...do I misunderstand you?

I don't think I need to respond to the rest of your post as the foregoing is reflected in your conclusion

Maybe we're not that far apart after all, Polar.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Christians are not sinners because they are led of the Holy Spirit and a Spirit led person will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh

No, Christians are commanded to "be filled with the Spirit" (Eph 5:18)and "walk by means of the Spirit" (Gal 5:16).

Also, Gal 5:16 shows 2 sides of a coin:

So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Paul is giving an "if...then" kind of statement, even though he doesn't use that format.

Basically, he is saying that IF IF IF believers will walk by the Spirit, THEN THEN THEN they will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Your first sentence apparently says Christians don't sin and that all Christians are led of the Spirit, and no Christian fulfills the lusts of the flesh. The verse doesn't allow such an idea.

So there is no excuse why a person cannot abstain from sin.

Then why did Paul make such a big deal about his own struggles in Romans 7? And why did John write this: 1 Jn 2:1 - My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

If your thesis that "Christians don't sin" were true, why did John write his epistle "so that they will not sin"? Sure sounds like John knew they were sinning, or that he wanted to encourage them not to.

A Spirit led person is not under the law because they are not sinning therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

Since you bring up the phrase "a Spirit led person", could you define that, specifically? I mean, what does that mean, and HOW does a believer accomplish being "led by the Spirit".

We might sin after we are saved for we still have the choice to sin and if we do sin we should repent of it not wanting the sin again and move forward in the Spirit.

The word "repent" isn't in 1 John 1:9.

If a person wilfully sins after they have received the knowledge of the truth there is no more sacrifice for sins which means if they hold on to sin the blood of Jesus cannot wash it away for God will not take away a sin from someone that holds on to a sin.

You are misunderstanding Heb 10:26 quite a lot.
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

The verse doesn't say there is sin that "the blood of Jesus cannot wash way". Rather, you need to realize that Heb 10:18 is directly connected to v.26.

16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”
17 Then he adds: “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.”
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary."

The entire chapter 10 is about Christ's "once for all" sacrifice for sin. iow, Jesus died for all the sins of all people.

So v.26 isn't about Christ's death not being able to wash sin away, but rather, because all sin has already been paid for, there is "no sacrifice for sins left". iow Christ already paid for all sins.

It is what follows v.26 that you need to understand.

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

This is all about God's discipline towards His disobedient children. Those who willfully sin will face God's discipline, which is PAINFUL, per Heb 12:11.

Read Isa 38 to understand that God's discipline IS painful. David sure felt it, and wrote about it.

 

[Polar]

Maybe we're not that far apart after all, Polar.

maybe

but I have not changed what I have been saying

perhaps you see it better by what I posted above?

as someone else said a page or two back, both are true...we sin but God does not see us still sinner