Catholic believe pope is infallible

[AllenW]

is Depend

heresy is If one doing again church dogma

if that particular church dogma Said tithing is OK than tithing is not heresy

so then you agree if a church says to pray to Mary in front of a statue of her, then it's okay, right?

 

[FranC]

I am a bit confused why you advocate the catholic ideology despite not being a catholic.


I don't ADVOCATE Catholic theology. I know it and believe it is very misunderstood. I don't like it to be called a cult when I hear so many other incorrect doctrine in other churches. I just think we should call it incorrect doctrine. Not satanic and all those nasty words...


Regarding the Pope being the head of the Church, this is against the Bible.
The church has only one head and that is JESUS. Therefore it is wrong to call the Pope the head.
Yes, it is absolutely biblical for a church to have a leader in the form of an elder or an overseer or a deacon, etc

Jesus did pick Peter to be the rock upon which He based His Church. I've studied this a bit and it does seem like Jesus meant for Peter to be THE ROCK, not the LITTLE ROCK. But I don't dwell on this too much. If the RCC wants to go back and proclaim Peter the first Pope, let them. The Catolic Church DOES HAVE APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION. This cannot be denied.

Also, there may be elders in a Church, but every mainline denomination has a LEADER of the entire Church, and all the elders.
Someone MUST be in charge, just like a corporation.


A church leader must:
-be humble with a servant's attitude
-preferably be married with god-loving children (the bible says this more than once)
-point people to the Word of God, not to man-made dogmas or traditions
-teach sound doctrine that is in line with the Bible.

A person cannot be a church leader if:
-he considers himself infallible under any circumstance
-he forbids anyone to marry
-if he makes anti-biblical or extra-biblical dogmas and traditions that nullify the Word of God
-he allows anyone to bow down before him
-he allows anyone to call himself "father" or "Holy Father"

About giving importance to a leader, the bible tells us to give "double honour" to our leaders (it's in the Bible). However, we must not bow down before them and kiss their hands and exalt them to a pedestal, the way catholics treat the pope.

I agree. I do think of Protestant leaders though. Ceflo Dollar comes to mind immediately.
Which of your specifications does HE embody?? As you know, there are plenty more. Some have even been caught in adultery.
We have to keep our eyes on Jesus and not on men. If people want to kneel down to the Pope, they can't be stopped. Francis does pick them right back up --- I guess they just love him too much. Some child he blessed was healed...



Yes, Pope Francis seems to be very humble. However who is he to declare a particular year as the "Jubilee Year of Mercy" or invent concepts such as "Holy Door" etc? If he is humbie, why does he allow people to call him "Holy Father?" Why can't he do his job of pointing people to Jesus? Why does he allow the assembly of cardinals to bow down before him? Why does he call Mary the Mother of God?

The Holy Door was there way before Francis! He can declare a year anything he wants. As a habit the Catholic Church does give a name to every year. I remember a couple: The Year Of Listening, The Year Of Sharing. It's a theme. It seems nice to me. Sets the tone for the coming year...

 

[onlinebuddy]

i believe the bible just fine, however you are not the bible.

I never said I was the Bible
Why do you always make such absurd remarks?

this doctrine being that the example of Jesus, John and Paul are just as good teachers as those that are married?

The catholic doctrine is man made and not in line with the Bible.
About Jesus, John and Paul being better teachers than married men, I would never disagree or dispute it. You shouldn't even be bringing this up. No person on earth can be better than "The Teacher" himself. Also, it would be very difficult for any man on earth (married or unmarried) to be better a better teacher than John or Paul. I never said this. You can't compare Jesus and the original apostles to any leader after them. I never said that a church leader is a substitute for Jesus, John or Paul, the way the Pope is said to be a substitute (vicar) for Jesus.

i believe the bible is above your interpertation such as this one:

So you do not believe that the Bible is the ultimate authority, do you? Also, I never said that unmarried men are disqualified from becoming elders. It's just that the verses talking about appointing elders, specifically talk about how married men who wish to be elders must conduct themselves. Even if I said, Paul preferred to appoint married men, I did not say paul disqualified unmarried men from becoming elders. BTW, married elders have an advantage over unmarried ones (and I don't say that they are better). They have personal experience in marriage related issues and in raising children and managing families.

more like avoiding them.

It's strange that after all the time i have spent discussing various issues,and after all the bible verses I have shown you, you still say I'm avoiding your questions.

they dont, what does that have to do with anything???

I asked you to show me where in the Bible are men forbidden to marry, and you say that this has nothing to do with anything. Strange! It has a lot to do with the false catholic doctrine that forbids men to marry. if it is not in the Bible, it should not be done, especially when it leads to sin and violates ones conscience.

i interpret the bible with common sense.

Wouldn't it rather be better to interpret the Bible based on its context. Your common sense is nothing before the wisdom of God.

t

his is called common sense, but lets try it your way. when the bible teaches a man should have one wife and good kids, explain how this rule applies to teachers such as Paul, a man with no wife, no kids.

No common sense required here. Paul never disqualified unmarried men from becoming elders. The Bible is clear.

i would say its wishful thinking based on Matthew 19:12

Mt 19:12 has nothing to do with wishful thinking. Wishful thinking is the result of a carnal mind that is not focused on the things of God.

[/COLOR][/SIZE]

are you sure?

At least I'm sure of this, that Paul did not forbid men from marrying.

1 Corinthians 7:8-9
6Now as a concession, not a command, I say this.a 7I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.

I told you earlier that I'm aware of what Paul has said. The point I'm making is that Paul never forbade men from getting married. Why does the Catolic church forbid men from getting married. Such a doctrine is not from God, but from the Devil. Paul knew that in advance.

i am all for married men being teachers. i am against married men being preferred over unmarried men when that unmarried man gave up that life for a more devoted life. according to your logic man that follow that example of Jesus, John and Paul are not preferred teachers, this i strongly disagree.

Preferring married men as elders does not mean that unmarried men cannot become elders. Please stop dragging the Lord and the apostles into this.

 

[onlinebuddy]

However, your story did make me wonder if maybe the practice of saying the rosary every evening didn't help you in discovering God later on in life.

My love story with God began when I was a Catholic. It is the catholic church that taught me the 10 commandments. The catholic church taught me to love my parents. I have beautiful memories of my catholic childhood. However the catholic church also taught me to pray and worship and venerate Mary. The catholic church taught me to bow down and kiss her feet. The catholic church taught me to say novenas. The catholic church taught me to say one Our Father, but ten Hail Marys. The emphasis on Mary was more than that on Christ. The Catholic church taught me to pray to saints and pray to statues.

The catholic church taught me to light candles and lamps. There is a church that is known for Novenas of "Our Lady of Perpetual Succour" People from all over the city and also from neighbouring cities come for the novenas. It is believed that if one attends 9 novenas in a row, "Our Lady" would grant them any wish. I have accompanied my mom for 9 such novenas. Outside the church are innumerable stalls selling candles and even replicas of human body parts made of wax. You will find wax hands, legs, feet, eyes, breasts, ears, noses, etc being sold at these stalls. It is believed that if one is unwell because of, say, their eyes, they must purchase the wax eyes and put it the box assigned for it in the church. Even as a catholic, I found this to be strange. Once I began to read the bible, it became clear that the catholic ways of intercession and worship are not biblical.

My bible tells me that personal sin is serious. It is so serious that Jesus had to die for the sins of the world. The catholic church never addressed the personal sin of the congregation. It never showed me how bad my sin was and never encouraged me to repent.

The catholic youth group that I was a part of had boys and girls who were nice and cool. However, no one displayed Christlike qualities. The youth leader himself used swear words. Many youth smoked and talked lewdly about women. Their focus was on women rather than Christ. i saw a lot of hypocrisy. There was no arrangement to train young men and women to be holy.

After every mass, the parish priest would stand in a corner and smoke cigarette after cigarette. He had no knowledge of what's right and wrong. He did not care about the image he was portraying.

I once was having tea with the parish priest and a "brother"(one who was being trained to be a priest). He was being taught theology and other things to prepare him for priesthood. I asked him what his views about Christ were. He said, "Christ is OK. At the moment people believe in him, but 50 years from now, no one will believe in Christ. There will be just one religion: Humanity." I got the shock of my life! And the parish priest was there listening to all the garbage, and said nothing.

All this is just the tip of the iceberg. I wish I had time to write more.

Any exposure to God must be good. (if it is simple and pure).

Yes, if it is simple and pure. Not if it promotes man-made traditons and doctrines that put you under the wrath of God.

 

[Jackson123]

so then you agree if a church says to pray to Mary in front of a statue of her, then it's okay, right?

No I am not agree. It is again the bible

 

[onlinebuddy]

No Onlinebuddy.

Mary is not to be worshipped.

I was taught to worship Mary. Isn't bowing down,
kissing the statue, singing praise and adoration, expressing reverence and adoration called worship? Doesn't all praise and adoration and glory belong to Jesus?

This is the official Church teaching.

Are you sure?

If members of the Church do not understand this, it's not the fault of the Church.

It is the responsibility of the church leader to preach, teach, correct, rebuke and encourage. The church leader must strive hard to see that the congregation does not follow false doctrines.

I DO AGREE that there is not enough teaching in the Catholic Church.

I fully agree. This is because: 1. Many become priests for wrong motives. They have their eyes set on the perks involved. I personally have come across such priests. 2. The priests are well trained how to say the mass, and organize events, but they are not trained how to take care of the needs of the congregation. 3. The priests are not personally involved with the congregation.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

971 "All generations will call me blessed":

Why not!

"The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship.

" Are we saying that Mary was a Virgin forever?The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of '

Mother of God

But Mary is the Mother of Jesus, right. Not the mother of God. She is the child of God. Why does the Catholic church adopt such contradictory titles?,'

to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs.

How can Mary protect us? Is she omnipresent and omnipotent?. . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration." The

liturgical feasts

man made terminology again dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as

the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel,

Isn't Jesus an epitome of the whole Gospel? "

express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.

Isn't our devotion supposed to be to Jesus?


970

"Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ,

Offcourse it definitely obscures the mediation of Christ. Asking Mary to mediate means that Christ's mediation is not enough or that he is not willing to mediate that we have to ask his mother to intercede. but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it." "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."[/QUOTE]

 

[AllenW]

No I am not agree. It is again the bible

Jackson, you contradict yourself.
Look up the definition for contradict, it has your name written all over it.
You are on a mission to convince yourself through others that catholicism is the enemy.
What demon gave you that message?
I came out of the catholic church.
Others here have come out of the catholic church.
My wife got saved in the catholic church before she met me.
You don't have all the answers.
You should be asking questions rather than try to tell us what is right and wrong.

 

[onlinebuddy]

I
Firstly, why coin extra -biblical terminology such as the words "sacrament" or "first holy communion?" Both these terms do not have biblical foundation.

Many of our terms do not have a biblical foundation:
Trinity
Postitional
Hell, as we understand it
Salvation, as we understand it
Limited atonement


and more... We do need words to be able to express what the New Testament teaches.

Aren't the words hell and salvation in the Bible? I don't understand what postitional and limited atonement is. Sounds like false doctrine to me.

I don't mind the word sacrament, but the sacraments must be biblical. The words are OK, but the concepts are not biblical.

The first sacrament- baptism is in the Bible, but the catholic church has totally changed what baptism is. Nowhere in the bible will you find a child being baptized. Parents cannot make decisions for a child. The child has to make the decision to follow Jesus when he grows up.

The second sacrament- eucharist or first holy communion is not biblical either. Nowhere in the Bible has anyone "received Christ" as a child.

The third sacrament- confirmation is also not biblical. Nowhere in the Bible do we see a teenager being confirmed into the church and receiving the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is received at baptism.

All these are man-made checkpoints.

 

[onlinebuddy]

Believe me, Catholics know all about Ephesians 2:8
Sometimes it surprises me that some thingkthe first Church does not understand the concepts IT came up with...

Please give me some bible verses that talk about sanctifying grace and actual grace.

 

[onlinebuddy]

agree with the above. I do think, for example, the First Holy Communion is felt as being very important to kids. How much this helps them to know God is not certain. In my experience with children, I can say that some are naturally more drawn to God, and some not at all.

In india, kids receive First Holy Communion at the age of 9. At this age how much can we expect them to understand about God, especially since they lack any training in the Word of God and the ways of God. Apart from the 10 commandments, they do not know much.

Yes, kids enjoy their First Holy Communion, but whether they enjoy the fact that they have received Jesus or they enjoy the lavish celebration remains to be seen.

In India, FHC is celebrated lavishly. People spend their life's savings on it. Some of them take a loan, because they want to match up with the neighbour's celebration.

The communion celebration is just like a wedding celebration, complete with a march(exactly like a wedding march), throwing of confetti, raising the toast, cutting of a three tier cake,popping of the champagne bottle, releasing confetti from the centrepiece, the first dance, compere, blasting music, dance, buffet meal, alcohol, photo sessions, videography and photography, etc.

Some parents spend the remaining few years paying back the debt.

I wonder what Jesus would think about all this.

I don't mean to be negative, but I will wholeheartedly support the first communion sacrament if someone shows me where receiving Jesus by a child is mentioned in the Bible

 

[Jackson123]

Jackson, you contradict yourself.
Look up the definition for contradict, it has your name written all over it.
You are on a mission to convince yourself through others that catholicism is the enemy.
What demon gave you that message?
I came out of the catholic church.
Others here have come out of the catholic church.
My wife got saved in the catholic church before she met me.
You don't have all the answers.
You should be asking questions rather than try to tell us what is right and wrong.

I do not understand why you come to that conclution.
I try to inform people that catholic believe pope is infallible.
What wrong

 

[onlinebuddy]

I did the book of Mathew in my home a couple of times. With the blessing of the local priest. (I live in a totally Catholic area).
Some women would not attend because the priest was not present. So, you're right, but then again, some did come anyway.

I can relate to you, because I went through exactly the same thing. Someday, when the priests find out that you are conducting a bible discussion without their knowledge or without the knowledge of the area incharge, they may ask you who gave you the authority to do so. If they do not? Praise God!

 

[Jackson123]

Jackson, you contradict yourself.
Look up the definition for contradict, it has your name written all over it.
You are on a mission to convince yourself through others that catholicism is the enemy.
What demon gave you that message?
I came out of the catholic church.
Others here have come out of the catholic church.
My wife got saved in the catholic church before she met me.
You don't have all the answers.
You should be asking questions rather than try to tell us what is right and wrong.

I think you confius between I am agree or not and heresy

heresy is If again dogma, again dogma not always again Bible.

for Example: believe in purgatory. It is not again catholic dogma, but It is again Bible.

 

[AllenW]

I think you confius between I am agree or not and heresy

heresy is If again dogma, again dogma not always again Bible.

for Example: believe in purgatory. It is not again catholic dogma, but It is again Bible.

Jackson, you are in denial.
That's okay, that's the first stage.
But understand I could talk all day about protestant "so called dogma" and make the catholic church look good.
But I have better things to do than put down other Christians.

 

[Jackson123]

Jackson, you are in denial.
That's okay, that's the first stage.
But understand I could talk all day about protestant "so called dogma" and make the catholic church look good.
But I have better things to do than put down other Christians.

what do you mean by put Down other Christian.

I do not put Down other Christian.

 

[AllenW]

what do you mean by put Down other Christian.

I do not put Down other Christian.

Catholics are Christian.
They worship Jesus Christ.
Who has told you otherwise?
I can't get through to you.
There's no sense talking to you.
What you're doing is called hate propaganda

 

[jaybird88]

what do you mean by put Down other Christian.

I do not put Down other Christian.

Jackson if you really loved Catholics and your intention is only to educate them on truth, why are you preaching this message on a forum that is 99% non Catholic?

 

[Jackson123]

Catholics are Christian.
They worship Jesus Christ.
Who has told you otherwise?
I can't get through to you.
There's no sense talking to you.
What you're doing is called hate propaganda

brother Allen. To me Christian mean Christ follower.

it mean fellow the teaching of the Bible.

no add anything.

catholic believe purgatory, and is not in the Bible. that mean she is not Christian.

 

[AllenW]

brother Allen. To me Christian mean Christ follower.

it mean fellow the teaching of the Bible.

no add anything.

catholic believe purgatory, and is not in the Bible. that mean she is not Christian.

Then who is Christian?
Are there any denominations that are Christian?
Jehovah's Witness?
Are you a Jehovah's Witness?
Are you a mormon?
Or do you not go to a church and just follow your own understanding?

 

[Jackson123]

Jackson if you really loved Catholics and your intention is only to educate them on truth, why are you preaching this message on a forum that is 99% non Catholic?

Brother Allen.

A Lot of Christian including my brother and my wife believe catholic is Christian.

one time my wife sent money to her catholic friend that was work fo catholic organisation for helping

tsunami in Aceh.

not only catholic need education, Christian aswell.

i do not think Christian need education about satanism

they know It is bad

but some Christian do not know about catholic