Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

Technically... we were chosen in Him before the foundations of the world. (Ephesians 1:4)
God's omniscience enables God alone to know such a thing.

That does not mean God chose us to believe.
But, rather. Chose us because He knew we would believe.

Why, "chosen in Him?"
Well?
Where was Eve before Adam was placed into a deep sleep?
The woman was?
"In Adam."

We are now "in Christ."
For we were chosen to be the Bride of Christ.

You just contradicted yourself. Since God must peer into the future to learn the choices and acts of men, then He cannot be omnisicient, since He must acquire knowledge in temporal reality as any of us mere mortals do. Genuine Omnisicience requires that God knows all things instantaneously, simultaneously and infintely. God's knowledge is not limited and He is never informed by his finite creation.

Plus you have have zero biblical proof that God learns or acquires knowledge as we mere finite mortals do.

 

[HeIsHere]

There is no such thing as fleshly faith. Because no living human being is created merely flesh alone.
The flesh is only the space suit, the container. The will and faith are that which animate the body.
This denying of the human spirit God intentionally created as part of every person is another horrific Calvinist lie.

Thank you!!

Why was Augustine given religious prominence, what a mess.

 

[GWH]

Exactly my understanding is the only understanding I have which is the entire point we are to not lean on our own understanding thus my understanding is contrary to the spirit

Now if understanding was given by the spirit then that is how you find truth but my own understanding? garbage useless null and void doesn't matter

If your understanding is contrary to the Spirit, then you need to repent and align it with the Spirit's teaching in Scripture.
However, even then/as we learn GW we should not claim our new understanding is infallible. Humility is a continual need.

 

[Genez]

no your making excuses for yourself again, whilst throwing yet another accusation at me, which you've now done in the last ten posts you've made to me.

You've shown your lack of conviction to repent of your cruel words on way to many occasions.

Your in no position to Judge other people's actions as you can't even judge your own.

It's your British sensitivities ruling over you again.
Nothing I can do about it.
Such as you are.

But, you keep trying to change me according to your ingrained bias.
Try leaving me be, as I don't demand you to change, as you do me.

Agape love is "impersonal."

 

[Genez]

Your non sequitur response explains much about you. Since you won't give a straight, honest answer, it appears your parents raised you to be a rebellious, autonomous brat. Good thing they never did impose their will upon you. You very likely would have considered them to be tyrannical, bullying monsters and would have offed them in self-defense of your sacred "freewill"!

Sawdust wouldn't answer my question either. This speaks volumes to the moral, spiritual and intellectual bankruptcy to FW soteriology.

Hello Rufus.
Nice to see you again.

 

[HeIsHere]

It's like I've said many times on these threads, everyone thinks the Spirit taught them yet most are in constant disagreement. One has to shut off the mind to not see this reality.

Good point.

Seems to me, shutting off the mind is "mysticism" which denies the need for using the brain/mind for discernment and rigorous analysis like a Good Berean.

 

[HeIsHere]

If your understanding is contrary to the Spirit, then you need to repent and align it with the Spirit's teaching in Scripture.
However, even then/as we learn GW we should not claim our new understanding is infallible. Humility is a continual need.

Without critical thinking, one can be very self-deceived and this applies to spiritual realities as well.

 

[Rufus]

So you are saying that Calvinists have the attention span of a 6-year-old?
Absolutely agree in consideration of the content and quality of their posts.
Typically soundbites, incoherent rambling, or one verse disasters.

If you can't sit down and absorb an hour or two worth of lectures, you are never going to truly understand the Bible.

Another satanic lie. God is ultimately the one who, through the Spirit, gives his people wisdom, knowledge and understanding in the Word of God itself. No extrabiblical lectures necessary.

 

[Rufus]

BillyBob ... since Rufus is the one who can't keep the discussion straight ... don't know why you're complaining to me ... Just saying. . .

.

I've kept our exchange perfectly straight. Jesus prayed for for two groups of disciples, according to Jn 17:20. It was you, more recently in 33,298, who said that He prayed only for the 11. It is you who can't keep the discussion straight!

 

[Rufus]

The Calvinists have abused this passage more than any other.
Completely de-Calvinized by reading 5 verses onward.
What do you think @HeIsHere @studier ?


[Jhn 14:17, 22-26 KJV]
17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. ...

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being [yet] present with you.

26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

And from whence comes this love?

 

[GWH]

Without critical thinking, one can be very self-deceived and this applies to spiritual realities as well.

Yes, self-deception is a problem we all need to be aware of. Here is how I as a truthseeker (TSer) try not to deceive myself:

TSers seek to learn the best belief and most logical answer to questions concerning ultimate reality. (Matt. 7:7, John 8:46, 1Cor. 2:6&13)

TSers are grateful to all people including both famous philosophers and anonymous acquaintances who help answer these questions. (Acts 17:26-31, 1Pet. 1:10-12)

TSers share their fallible faith with others, hoping they will find what they have learned helpful for understanding ultimate truth. (1Pet. 3:15b, 1Tim. 2:3-6)

TSers hope the Christian view is correct, because there is no better (credible and desirable) way of attaining heaven than NT theism. (Acts 7:51-53, Rom. 1:16-17)

TSers use logic, because they believe God is One/Logos, so right reasoning leads to all truth, both scientific and spiritual. (Isa. 1:18a, Acts 17:17)

TSers want to learn the best belief, so when a contradictory view is deemed to be better, they change their opinion. (1Cor. 13:11, Heb. 6:1-3, cf. Matt. 5:25)

TSers love everyone and thus want to share knowledge with other truthseekers, so they may fellowship (2Tim. 4:3-4, 1John 1:3).

TSers are humble/teachable, never thinking they have papal infallibility, absolute proof or moral perfection (Phil. 3:12-16, 2Cor. 5:7,
Eph. 4:11-15).

 

[Jordon]

It's your British sensitivities ruling over you again.
Nothing I can do about it.
Such as you are.

But, you keep trying to change me according to your ingrained bias.
Try leaving me be, as I don't demand you to change, as you do me.

Agape love is "impersonal."

I'll be nice to you when your nice, but I'm not going to be nice to you when your horrible as I'm not your wife, unless your actions are warranted to be Judgemental I won't say anything. so get over it.

 

[Rufus]

Is that the best rebuttal you can muster?
Thanks to all those who have pitched in with their fine work so that the biblically illiterate nonsense that the Calvinist ilk proffer is being exposed.

His answer still has all your sleep of death beat.

 

[Genez]

You just contradicted yourself. Since God must peer into the future to learn the choices and acts of men, then He cannot be omnisicient, since He must acquire knowledge in temporal reality as any of us mere mortals do. Genuine Omnisicience requires that God knows all things instantaneously, simultaneously and infintely. God's knowledge is not limited and He is never informed by his finite creation.

Plus you have have zero biblical proof that God learns or acquires knowledge as we mere finite mortals do.

God has always been seeing the future as if it were in the present.
God does not peer into the future.

 

[Rufus]

cv5 said:


There is no such thing as fleshly faith. Because no living human being is created merely flesh alone.
The flesh is only the space suit, the container. The will and faith are that which animate the body.
This denying of the human spirit God intentionally created as part of every person is another horrific Calvinist lie.

There's no such thing as "fleshly" choices?

 

[Genez]

I'll be nice to you when your nice, but I'm not going to be nice to you when your horrible as I'm not your wife, unless your actions are warranted to be Judgemental I won't say anything. so get over it.

Sorry, Jordon. Now you're female?

You need to better express what you mean.

 

[Jordon]

Sorry, Jordon. Now you're female?

no but this lady is

Maybe this may calm you your nerves,

 

[Genez]

no but this lady is

Maybe this may calm you your nerves,

My nerves are just fine, thank you.

 

[Rufus]

God has always been seeing the future as if it were in the present.
God does not peer into the future.

Nope. You're conflating what is eternal with what is temporal (Time). God's will, plan, purposes are not dependent on any part of his creation. Eternity trumps temporal reality.

Plus, you still have God learning...acquiring knowledge like any mere mortal. God's will is not contingent on any part of his creation, for ALL his choices rely solely upon the counsel of his own will.

 

[Jordon]

My nerves are just fine, thank you.

What about other people nerves do you think there as Good yours after you get on them ?