Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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When one creates a different god, anything can be rationalized and justified. The gate slamming is horrid.
The doctrine of limited atonement is outside Christianity, and covering it up with the new Reformed line, "Christ died for all, but it is not efficacious for all" is just more Reformed double speak which they employ regularly to gain acceptance.
What man-exalting garbage you post! If A&E were "perfectly holy" in their nature, they would NOT have have been able to sin, anymore than God is able to sin in his perfect holy nature.
Moreover, if A&E were "perfectly holy" in their nature and yet somehow had the spiritual ability to overcome that nature by sinning, then why would any saint ever think that the new Eternal Order order will consist of only perfectly holy saints who will never be able to sin?
And what right choice did post-Fall Adam make? Chapter and verse, please.
But man's depraved HEART within his evil nature does! All man's faculties are in his heart, which is desperately wicked and deceitful above all else.
Yeah you are way late to the party @cv5 and I have already had this discussion a long while back.
There you go trying to cause dissension once again.
[QUOTE="cv5, post: 5655628, member: 277646"]So simple a child can KNOW and understand. In fact that is the intended purpose. Even to this present day.
BTW, between the Israelites and Egyptians, you have several million eyewitnesses. But word went around very quickly....to Canaan, Edom, Moab, Ammon, Midian, Syria.... everyone knew.
[Exo 6:7 KJV]7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.
[Exo 7:5, 17 KJV] 5 And the Egyptians shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I stretch forth mine hand upon Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them. ... [/QUOTE]
And this explains nicely why none of you FWers "KNOW and understand", since NONE of you believe that you're helpless, weak, fragile, vulnerable little children in the eyes of God. If you had any true spiritual understanding, you would understand that God's paternal love for his chosen people is what moves his heart to protect and rescue his little ones by imposing his perfect holy will upon them for his own glory and for their good. But you reject this truth, proving that you are not a little child in God's eyes. In your stubborn pride, you think you're smarter than God -- a grown adult who doesn't need loving paternal guidance. After all, that's what an adult's "freewill" is all about isn't?
You're spiritual relationship with the Lord is at best most precarious since you think you're smarter and wiser than the Heavenly Father.
BTW, between the Israelites and Egyptians, you have several million eyewitnesses. But word went around very quickly....to Canaan, Edom, Moab, Ammon, Midian, Syria.... everyone knew.
[Exo 6:7 KJV]7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.
[Exo 7:5, 17 KJV] 5 And the Egyptians shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I stretch forth mine hand upon Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them. ... [/QUOTE]
And this explains nicely why none of you FWers "KNOW and understand", since NONE of you believe that you're helpless, weak, fragile, vulnerable little children in the eyes of God. If you had any true spiritual understanding, you would understand that God's paternal love for his chosen people is what moves his heart to protect and rescue his little ones by imposing his perfect holy will upon them for his own glory and for their good. But you reject this truth, proving that you are not a little child in God's eyes. In your stubborn pride, you think you're smarter than God -- a grown adult who doesn't need loving paternal guidance. After all, that's what an adult's "freewill" is all about isn't?
You're spiritual relationship with the Lord is at best most precarious since you think you're smarter and wiser than the Heavenly Father.
You kick off the New Year on the right footing since you just confessed that you're a heretic. You FWers, too, believe that the Atonement is limited in the qualitative sense. Christ died for all w/o exception even though the Father never gave the entire world w/o exception to Jesus.
lost as lesser and non deserving.
At least you asked, rather than go into you are a liar, deceitful and hypocrite diatribe as some are known to do, I can appreciate that.
you must yield yourself, Jordon ... you present yourself to God ...
Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
The word "yield" is translated from the Greek word paristēmi (from para "to place beside" or "by"; and histemi "to set") ... to place beside or near; to present; to place a person at one's disposal.
Under the Old Covenant, the worshiper presented an unblemished animal sacrifice to God.
Under the New Covenant, the worshiper is to present him or herself to God as a living sacrifice (Rom 12:1).
We either place ourselves at the disposal of unrighteousness unto sin or we place ourselves at the disposal of righteousness unto God.
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You were bequeathed God's saving grace unawares, but Mr. Jones down the street did not, and apparently you were created for this gift and Mr. Jones was not, he was created for destruction, therefore we can conclude you were worthy and Mr. Jones was not worthy.
yes you do! ... you limit the inestimable value of the sacrifice/offering of the Lamb ... the offering of the Lord Jesus Christ is more than sufficient to cover the sin of all mankind ... all descendants of Adam.
God's love encompasses the whole world ... the whosoevers receive the gift ...Rufus said:
John 3:16-17
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
How "humble" were you before you believed the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation?Rufus said:
the whosoevers that believe the gospel are given to Christ.Rufus said:
The Lord Jesus Christ prayed for those who were with Him in the garden just before He was crucified ... that would be the 11 apostles after Judas left.Rufus said:
Why do you jump from the prayer in John 17 when the Lord Jesus Christ was with His 11 apostles at the end of His earthly ministry to an unrelated passage in John 10 when the Lord Jesus Christ was speaking to pharisees who had cast out of the synagogue the blind man who had been healed?Rufus said:
What Jesus spoke of in John 10 was directed to the pharisees who heard Jesus when He was speaking to the blind man who had been healed by Jesus ... the man was cast out of the synagogue (John 9:34). Jesus heard the man had been cast out and went to speak to him and the man was brought to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (John 9:35-38). Some pharisees overheard Jesus speaking to the man and asked if they were blind (John 9:40). Jesus answered them (John 9:41-John 10:21).Rufus said:
In John 17, Jesus was with His apostles. Jesus knew His hour had come (John 13:1). He ate His last meal with His 12 apostles. After Judas left, Jesus was with the 11 ... He gave them crucial information concerning His departure ... the Comforter (Who is the Holy Spirit) ... He prayed to His Father ...
Quit conflating what is written in John 10 with what is written in John 17.
Those who are one in the Lord Jesus Christ are a witness to the world that the Lord Jesus Christ was sent into the worldRufus said:
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Believing that Jesus was in the world is not the same as believing in the Lord Jesus Christ unto salvation.
Lots of people believe Jesus lived in the world ... that He was a man of God ... a prophet ... a great teacher of truth. That is not the same as believing unto salvation.
you limit the love of God the same as you limit the inestimable value of the offering of the Lord Jesus Christ.Rufus said:
Ephesians 3:14-19
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
the whosoevers of the world who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ will be with Him in new heaven/new earth ... they will walk on streets of gold and eat of the tree of life.Rufus said:
Those who reject Him in this life will not walk on those streets of gold nor will they eat of the tree of life.
100% effectual to those who believe ... those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness receive the consequence of not having believed ...Rufus said:
God allowing those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness to reject His offering does not equal the offering being insufficient to cover the sin of those who reject.Rufus said:
The sin of mankind is not at issue ... what is at issue is faith in the One Who gave His life ... the life of inestimable value.
my belief that God's love is uncomprehendingly greater than your limitation of God's love ...Rufus said:
my belief that the offering of the Lord Jesus Christ is inestimably greater than your limitation of His offering ...
does not equal my having "to pervert" whatever narrative you have vainly imagined.
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?Rufus said:
the above verse should be read with this verse in mind ...
1 Corinthians 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
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Then you would conclude wrongly! Your logic is totally skewed; for there is a third option that you conveniently overlook: The saints' Federal Head is the only one who totally merited the salvation of all God's elect for whom He died.
Now answer my question that you ducked: As a professing Christian, do you consider yourself worthy of God's saving grace?