Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

The riches of the Lord Jesus Christ are unsearchable ... there is no end ... to Him or His riches.

You limit the exceeding riches of His grace to your subset of humanity ... of which, interestingly, you include yourself and exclude those you refer to as "FWers" or "freewillers" ...

The offering/sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ is more than sufficient to cover the sins of the whole world ... all descendants of Adam ...

Romans 1:16-19

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness when truth is revealed to them are the ones suffer the consequence of their actions.

Those who do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness when truth is revealed to them are the ones who receive the blessing ... the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation ... God's power is not limited to your understanding of who is included in "the world" or "whosoever" ...

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

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I DO NOT limit anything! But Scripture does! First, God's saving grace is limited to the humble, per numerous scriptures.

Secondly, God limits whom He gives to Christ. He does not and has never given the entire world to Jesus.

Thirdly, this explains why Jesus didn't pray for the world in Jn 17:9.

Fourthly, it also explains why Jesus prayed for both flocks of his Father's sheep, for He laid down his life for them (Jn 10:11, 14-16).

Fifthly, Jesus, not being of this world (Jn 17:16), does not know the ungodly world -- only his sheep (Jn 10:14).

Sixthly, Jesus does not sanctify the world but only his Father's sheep (Jn 17:19).

Seventh, Christ's love is only for his Father's sheep (Jn 17:23).

Eighth, Jesus did not want the world to be with Him for all eternity, only His sheep (Jn 17:24).

Lastly, Christ's Atonement is 100% effectual since all that Father has given to Him in eternity, He will give them eternal life (Jn 17:2).

Very obviously, God never intended or designed for Christ's atonement to be sufficient for the entire world, since He never has given the world to Christ.

P.S. All these LIMITS mentioned above are taken from scripture, which you have to pervert to fit your "freewill" narrative and the Santa Claus image you have created for God.

PPS: Yes, I include myself as being one of God's elect because scripture tells me HOW believers can know they are children of God. God did not leave that all-important practical truth up to our fallible, finite and often carnal imaginations to figure out.

 

[Jordon]

No it’s just that a response isn’t always an answer. It’s like me asking you if the temperature outside is 32°f or 84°f and you replying with a random response of how the uv light from the sun works. Beings that I don’t see you answering questions directly either I wouldn’t expect you to completely understand. The question was:

Do you completely understand the complexity of God’s will or the human will?

A)yes
B)no

I’ll answer it first to demonstrate.

My answer: B)no

Dictators generally demand answers How they want them answered. Funny enough They also have a will that's out of control.

Where as a discussion about the whole bible like this one can go in any direction and people like to discuss even with intelligence , so I suggest you get over it, and quit with answers that suggest we are unintelligent, because actually where not,

 

[Rufus]

opposites cannot both be true about the same idea in the same sense. Sounds to me like you have no faith in the words of Jesus being true.

And at the same time per Law of Non-Contradiction.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Where is this taught in the Bible???

The sky is a Nissan Altima that eats fish on saturdays after going to mars with a frog.

Does that answer your question? Do you see how a random response isn’t an answer?

 

[Jordon]

The sky is a Nissan Altima that eats fish on saturdays after going to mars with a frog.

Does that answer your question? Do you see how a random response isn’t an answer?

yawns your talking to a mature Christian, start treating her like one.

 

[Jackson129]

Nope. Faith is always without doubt...James 1:6.

Then why did Peter start sinking?

 

[Magenta]

The sky is a Nissan Altima that eats fish on saturdays after going to mars with a frog.

Does that answer your question? Do you see how a random response isn’t an answer?

I see how deceitful you are.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Dictators generally demand answers How they want them answered. Funny enough They also have a will that's out of control.

Where as a discussion about the whole bible like this one can go in any direction and people like to discuss even with intelligence , so I suggest you get over it, and quit with answers that suggest we are unintelligent, because actually where not,

“because actually WHERE not”

At least spell check before making that claim. I guess the difference between you and I is that I’m not afraid to just say I don’t know something.

 

[Magenta]

yawns your talking to a mature Christian, start treating her like one.

Maybe he thinks those things are what the Bible teaches?

It is certainly another misdirect away from what the Bible actually says, which I have posted.

 

[Rufus]

Stop with the secular stuff, please? ...

Faith is having a normal spiritual response to God by means of having developed an accurate understanding of God's Word.

But lost sinners have no normal, natural or instinctive understanding of spiritual gospel truth (Rom 3:11).

 

[Jordon]

“because actually WHERE not”

At least spell check before making that claim. I guess the difference between you and I is that I’m not afraid to just say I don’t know something.

If I need a lecture I'll ask for one, if you don't know something and your not afraid to say you don't know, why does that make me different, that's just an answer a little child would give,

So far you've come across as if you know it all.

 

[cv5]

Seems like those who adhere to TULIP find complexity in human behaviour challenging, black or white.

Part of the complex of the psychology of gate slamming and pronouncements of doom to all humanity?

 

[Rufus]

I could just as easily turn that around and say “If you or anyone here is able to physically prove that you are who you really say you are, then please do. If you or anyone here is able to physically prove that George Washington was really the first president, or that John Wilkes Booth assassinated Abraham Lincoln, then please do. Until that is physically proven, I will walk by my faith that George Washington was really the first president, and that John Wilkes Booty really assassinated Abraham Lincoln.”

One does not need physical proof to know something is true or that something happened. If that was the case, many cases and historical writings would be thrown out.

Almost everything you believe in life isn’t based on physical evidence: You believe your great-grandparents got married—but you weren’t there. You believe in logic—but it’s not physical. You trust that someone loves you—but you can’t measure it in a test tube. You believe historical events like Ghandi’s assassination or Lincoln’s speeches—based on documents and testimony. We believe these things because of reasonable, human evidence.

If you say we have physical evidence of John Wilkes booth assassinating Lincoln, then how do you know that’s really the evidence? How do you know it wasn’t tampered, doctored, etc? Same for saying any other physical evidence about any historical event? Do you trust obituaries without tracking down the coroner? Do you trust historical writings without ever having physical evidence? Do you trust medical writings that have been confirmed to be true without physical evidence? Does juries have to have physical evidence for something to be true?

You're quite the poster boy for Agnosticism, are you?

 

[Cameron143]

Then why did Peter start sinking?

He stopped exercising faith. He took his eyes off Jesus and began looking at the waves.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

If I need a lecture I'll ask for one, if you don't know something and your not afraid to say you don't know, why does that make me different, that's just an answer a little child would give,

So far you've come across as if you know it all.

This has been fun. We should do it again sometime.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Note: The Greek word 'elpis' translated hope; meant having an absolute confidence about something.

yes ... faith is the foundation in which our hope is rooted ... and hope anticipates that which we cannot see. We have steadfast confidence in those future expectations God has laid on our hearts through the unshakable foundation of faith.

And faith is energized by love

Galatians 5:5-6

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love [Greek = agapē].


love this verse ...

1 Corinthians 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, [Greek = agapē], these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Faith guides us in our life on this earth ...
Hope anticipates our future glorification in new heaven/new earth ...
Love of God and His way keeps us on the right path we are to follow.

faith hope love are bound together and direct us to walk more closely with God.

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[Rufus]

Agree 1000 %

The topic of free will encompasses neuroscience, philosophy, theology and cognitive science.

I am mostly on this thread to stifle Calvinist proselytizing.

And no doubt your closed mindedness is your best friend.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I believe what the Bible teaches on the will of man, which is that until set free by Jesus, man is a slave to sin and lover of darkness opposed to the Spiritual things of God toward Whom he is hostile and incapable of submitting to or obeying, as the flesh cannot please God. And that without the Spirit of God he can neither receive nor comprehend the Spiritual things of God.

any time a person sins (whether born again or not born again), he or she subjects himself or herself to being a "slave to sin".

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

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[Rufus]

There is no mention of empirical proof in the verse.

Neither is Heb 11:1 qualified.

 

[Rufus]

That's because biblical faith doesn't require empirical proof, though it may include it. Read the verses for yourself...slowly and carefully.

What was Jesus' response to Thomas? Who is blessed?

Good response! PLUS...numerous people in the bible had empirical proof of this, that or some other thing, yet they did not believe. Look what happened when Lazarus was raised from the dead. This was the spectacular miracle that actually triggered the religious establishment to murder Christ -- and they wanted to murder Lazarus as well. Faith is a supernatural work and a gift of God.