Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[cv5]

2 Chronicles 19:3 Nevertheless good things are found in you, in that you have removed the wooden images from the land, and have prepared your heart to seek God

2 Chronicles 12:14 And he did evil, because he did not prepare his heart to seek the LORD.

2 Chronicles 30:18 …But Hezekiah prayed for them, saying, “May the good LORD provide atonement for everyone 19 who prepares his heart to seek God, the LORD God of his fathers, though he is not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary.”

Ezra 7:10 For Ezra had prepared his heart to seek the Law of the LORD, and to do it, and to teach statutes and ordinances in Israel.

The expression of this *****response***** TO God's will/calling a matter of our own of will/volition/desire.

This according to God's perfect design.

 

[Blue155]

The expression of this *****response***** TO God's will/calling a matter of our own of will/volition/desire.

This according to God's perfect design.

Yes, and a Calvinist gave it a dislike.

 

[BillyBob]

Beginning in Isaiah 31:1, God is asking his people What are you doing? Why are you willing to place your trust in the things of this world rather than me?

3 Now the Egyptians are men, and not God; And their horses are flesh, and not spirit. When the Lord stretches out His hand, Both he who helps will fall, And he who is helped will fall down; They all will perish together.

It is the LORD who will deliver Jerusalem!

But do we not all do the same thing? We often look around us and place our trust in things other than God himself. Whether it be our government or even our own strength – Our trust often turns to other things, rather than placing our trust in Christ alone who has done all things perfectly.

Hope everyone is having a good Lord's Day. . . . .

 

[Rufus]

The expression of this *****response***** TO God's will/calling a matter of our own of will/volition/desire.

This according to God's perfect design.

Except when it isn't! What part of Rom 3:9-17 can't you understand? The the entire human race is under [the power of] sin (v. 9), which is why the world hates God, His Son, His people, His Law, His Wisdom, His Truth, His Gospel. Only God's elect are out from under the power of sin (Rom 6:14). The world, however, is under bondage to its own sinful nature, to itself and to the devil.

 

[cv5]

Except when it isn't! What part of Rom 3:9-17 can't you understand? The the entire human race is under [the power of] sin (v. 9), which is why the world hates God, His Son, His people, His Law, His Wisdom, His Truth, His Gospel. Only God's elect are out from under the power of sin (Rom 6:14). The world, however, is under bondage to its own sinful nature, to itself and to the devil.

You Calvinist one verse wonders are bound and determined to wear out that passage aren't you?.....

 

[GWH]

This still doesn't answer whether it's God's will that is planted.
Your idea of having moral free given to the unsaved is a concept, that is not proven.
What part of the will of man lives in the flesh should be moral and free to the lord in an unbeliever ?
God delivers his word to all people in ways that are out of your control.
Whilst you can make it inviting to reason with an atheist, sadly the only one who can truly is God instructing there conscience and condemning there conscience,
He will save then with his living fear that will convict them and condemn them,
Then what all atheists do is they start to question God whilst still in rebellion.
Telling them they have free will is actually doing them more bad than Good.

They are a slave to sin

The saved don't need to have MFW IYO.
God 's way of delivering His Word to all people includes via me.
Hopefully God will use the PP to prick atheists' hearts,
and they will be convicted by His great love for them,
so they will question God about how they may be saved.
Of course, if they are not free to repent of sin, then loving
them and sharing GW about salvation is silly.

 

[Blue155]

There are people in the Bible who are referred to as righteous (Gen. 18:23, Ex. 23:7; Deut. 16:19, 2 Sam. 4:11, 1 Kings 2:32, Matt. 9:13, 25:46, Lk. 1:6, 2 Pe. 2:7, etc etc). One must harmonize those with Romans 3:10.

Concerning understands, Nehemiah 8:7-8, 13, Ps. 107:43, 119:100, Prov. 28:5, Rom. 15:21, Matt. 17:13, Matt. 12:33, Eph. 3:4. 5:17, etc etc. One must harmonize those with Romans 3:11.

The OT and NT Scriptures says to seek the Lord: Deut. 4:29, Prov. 8:17, 1 Chron. 16:10-11, 22:19, 2 Chron. 15:2, Amos 5:4, Deut. 4:29, Prov. 8:17, Job. 8:5, Jer. 29:10, 13, Acts 17:27, Heb. 11:6). Other passages that tells us to seek are Matthew 6:33 (seek the kingdom of God), Matthew 7:7 (seek and ye shall find). One must harmonize those with Romans 3:11.

So, Romans 3:10-11 does not apply universally to “all” people.

 

[Magenta]

Psalm 14 verses 1-3; Job 15 verse 16 ~ The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt; their acts are vile. There is no one who does good. The LORD looks down from heaven upon the sons of men to see if any understand, if any seek God. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. Man is vile and corrupt.

 

[Rufus]

You Calvinist one verse wonders are bound and determined to wear out that passage aren't you?.....

Actually, I cited several verses in one passage. You don't count too swell either, do you?

And besides, how many verses or passages does it take before it officially becomes God's infallible, authoritative Word?

When you categorically reject that Rom 3:9 says, you place the ungodly world into the same spiritual category as Paul's audience in Rom 6:14 -- as being free FROM sin's controlling, addictive power.

 

[Rufus]

There are people in the Bible who are referred to as righteous (Gen. 18:23, Ex. 23:7; Deut. 16:19, 2 Sam. 4:11, 1 Kings 2:32, Matt. 9:13, 25:46, Lk. 1:6, 2 Pe. 2:7, etc etc). One must harmonize those with Romans 3:10.

Concerning understands, Nehemiah 8:7-8, 13, Ps. 107:43, 119:100, Prov. 28:5, Rom. 15:21, Matt. 17:13, Matt. 12:33, Eph. 3:4. 5:17, etc etc. One must harmonize those with Romans 3:11.

The OT and NT Scriptures says to seek the Lord: Deut. 4:29, Prov. 8:17, 1 Chron. 16:10-11, 22:19, 2 Chron. 15:2, Amos 5:4, Deut. 4:29, Prov. 8:17, Job. 8:5, Jer. 29:10, 13, Acts 17:27, Heb. 11:6). Other passages that tells us to seek are Matthew 6:33 (seek the kingdom of God), Matthew 7:7 (seek and ye shall find). One must harmonize those with Romans 3:11.

So, Romans 3:10-11 does not apply universally to “all” people.

Wow! We're actually making some headway, maybe? You mean "all" doesn't literally mean all in the distributive sense? So, who are the "all" in Rom 3:9? (Verse 10 & 11 don't contain the term "all").

As far as understanding goes, those who Fear the Lord in their hearts are the only ones who have true spiritual understanding.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

here's another morbid attack on a sister .

One after the other From people suffering CDS with co morbid

And honestly God is God that breaths fire.

You know it's a shame they can't see the griffin a mix of the lion and the eagle defining Gods divine nature to see, that tattoo.

All tho a lot of people get tattoos in there arms in wales of a griffin like this one here just for that reason, without even reading Leviticus

The sad reality is the dooms day fanatics here want to ruin magenta with there morbid attacks and ridicule her. With there OCD obsessive compulsive disorder

it goes both ways, Jordon.

have you ever heard of the saying "if you can dish it out, you'd better be able to take it" ?

Magenta gives even as she gets ... hopefully/prayerfully she is strong in the Lord (I believe she's a strong woman ... but that is not the same as being strong in the Lord).

God is the One Who provides what is needed. The believer is to be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might ... put on the whole armor of God ... stand and withstand ...

.

 

[Jordon]

The saved don't need to have MFW IYO.
God 's way of delivering His Word to all people includes via me.
Hopefully God will use the PP to prick atheists' hearts,
and they will be convicted by His great love for them,
so they will question God about how they may be saved.
Of course, if they are not free to repent of sin, then loving
them and sharing GW about salvation is silly.

Why don't you call the pp inherent value ?

Why change it to one understanding that suits yours reasoning better ?

As far as I'm aware the moral responsibility of the lords is something he can act freely with.

So why should the saved not have moral free will once your saved, his way lives in you.

The unsaved are not free full stop in anyway only in thought , and only Godly sorrow in there heart can cause them to repent, as much as they would like to think they can, they can't

There is none that do good not one

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Really? Even when such hardening works for a greater good, e.g. God's gracious rescue mission of the ancient Hebrews from Egypt which He accomplished by hardening Pharaoh's heart?

I believe the "greater good" would have been for pharaoh to not suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... however, that is not what happened.

do you believe it would be a good thing for your heart to be hardened?

I provided all the usages of the word "sklērynō" here and asked you if you believed it was a good thing for your heart to be hardened ... crickets ... and now here you are again with your same old same old.

Read the verses, Rufus ... doesn't appear to me that hardening the heart is a good thing.

.

 

[Jordon]

it goes both ways, Jordon.

have you ever heard of the saying "if you can dish it out, you'd better be able to take it" ?

Magenta gives even as she gets ... hopefully/prayerfully she is strong in the Lord (I believe she's a strong woman ... but that is not the same as being strong in the Lord).

God is the One Who provides what is needed. The believer is to be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might ... put on the whole armor of God ... stand and withstand ...

.

Well you defend them all you like sis, but I'm not defending there lies,

Magenta has only spoke the truth, and been a good role model.

They have been the exact opposite

 

[reneweddaybyday]

There is no winning or losing with each other.

But, with the Lord who is going to judge us on our thoughts?
With Him alone, there will be winning...

Or, losing.

I see it as blessing or consequence.

And, yes, all will give an account for every idle word ... I guess some folks figure as long as they get to heaven that's all that matters ...

I wonder if folks know about the joy of fellowship during this lifetime ???

Psalm 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Well you defend them all you like sis, but I'm not defending there lies,

Magenta has only spoke the truth, and been a good role model.

They have been the exact opposite

I'm not defending anyone ... I merely commented on what I see in the back and forth in this thread.

.

 

[cv5]

Magenta has only spoke the truth, and been a good role model.

????????????

 

[Genez]

and now we know the reason why you posted, the I was a child scripture


Doeeeeeeeeee.

Your imagination is very enlightening

Hi Jordon.

;;;;;;
Bye Jordon.

 

[Blue155]

Psalm 14:1 is a conscious, deliberate rejection of God. Not a condition imposed at birth.

Verse 2 explains that God looks down to see if anyone understands or seeks Him. Keep in mind the “fool” actively chooses to reject God. The reason why for them not understanding or seeking is due to the corruption from the result of their choices, as well as having parents that are rejecting God, and the corrupt environment due to that, not an innate total depravity that makes them unable to seek Him. Again, it’s a conscious, deliberate rejection of God. Not a condition imposed at birth.

Verse 3: God observes that many have turned aside, become corrupt, and done abominable works. In order to turn aside and become corrupt (which led to doing abominable works), they would have first have had to start out not being corrupt. Again, it’s a conscious, deliberate rejection of God. Not a condition imposed at birth.

Psalm 14:5 contrasts the rebellious with the righteous. Those who reject God experience fear and judgment, while those who seek Him…who intentionally reject the path of the fool experience God’s presence and protection. Seeking God is the first step of deciding to wanting to be in the generation of the righteous, demonstrating cooperation with God’s will.

Therefore, instead of proving total inability to seek, Psalms 14 proves the very opposite!

In conclusion: Context kills Calvinism!!

 

[rogerg]

So, Romans 3:10-11 does not apply universally to “all” people.

What part of "none" don't you understand? NONE means NONE whatsoever. If any were righteous, those verses simply couldn't' say what they say. It can't be made any clearer than that. By you saying otherwise you would alter their meaning, turning them into something bogus and unintended. Your problem is that you select verses from two completely different covenants, each representing something different, yet treat them as one - taking from one and arbitrarily and incorrectly cross-transplanting from one into the other according to your own personal perceptions, preferences, and desires: apples and oranges should not be harmonized.


[Rom 3:9-11 KJV]
9 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.