Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jhn 10:18
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

So you do CHOOSE to blame God for every sin of the devil, and every sin of man to boot?
Sounds unwise......:cautious:

So, Jesus had some mental issues, did he? He had a messiah-complex that He felt only his suicidal tendencies could fulfill? If not, what is the above passage supposed to prove? And how does your "proof text" square with Act 4:27-28?
 
So, I guess you do believe that God's will is free, right, even though He cannot make any choices contrary to his nature? If so, explain to me how His will is free.
His will belongs to him, and only his sheep do his will m.

And only his sheep are set free, but they do have to go through what everyone else's has to go through before becoming filled with the spirit.

Which is They have to have his works tested in his fire in there hearts m

Again called for-knowing
 
Millions upon millions of people since the cross never heard the gospel. Millions upon millions never heard the the name Jesus. This isn't in dispute. The gospel didn't even come to America until the 15th century. This is merely 1 of a myriad of examples I could share. The statement that all have had equal opportunity is absurd.

Not to mention those who are too young, too old, or too infirmed to consciously intellectualize it, nevertheless, if of the elect, God must and will save them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cameron143
Millions upon millions of people since the cross never heard the gospel. Millions upon millions never heard the the name Jesus. This isn't in dispute. The gospel didn't even come to America until the 15th century. This is merely 1 of a myriad of examples I could share. The statement that all have had equal opportunity is absurd.

Millions never heard the Gospel before the Cross. Millions never heard the name of Jesus before the Incarnation. You want to try telling me none of those got saved or they had less opportunity to be saved?

It is not absurd, grace is the equalizer. I gave you the scriptures. You cannot bargain with God's grace and get more than what God is willing to give and what He gives is from the goodness of His heart.

What's absurd is you trying to limit the heart of God to a formula of salvation.

The more you speak, the more convinced I become, you don't know grace and you don't know the heart of God.
 
God doesn't have to determine both sides of the chessboard to get his end result. He's that good. Think about how many people are disillusioned or discouraged because of the belief they think “well, everybody is already in the category they're determined to be in, whether it's to be saved or lost, it can't be changed, and those who are born without God electing them to salvation have got no hope. Jesus didn't even die for them. So, they got no hope. There’s nothing they can do. They're born with a God-hating nature that doesn't even allow them to want to do anything different. They are helpless. Helpless to do anythingdifferently. And they will be condemned for all eternity for what they had no human power to do anything differently. That is extremely upsetting to a lot of people. You can say, "Well, it's what the Bible says if you're Calvinist." No, I disagree. But still that's the practicality of it. What is assumed often by Calvinists is that you can't choose to do one or the other. Well, tell that to Peter when Jesus said, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men." But yet Peter was able to go back and stop doing that.

According to Calvinism, God must have eternally decreed all decisions that man will make and choose in order for Him to be sovereign and retain ultimate sovereignty. However, that presupposes that granting man free will somehow renders Him incapable of exercising sovereignty. But a truly sovereign God does not need to do such order to accomplish His purposes. Is God not still all sovereign, all-powerful, etc etc without having to eternally decree both sides of the chessboard? If not, why not?
 
  • Like
Reactions: OLDBUTNEW
I also find it odd that you judge another's experience of God's love by the questions they ask and not on the way they treat others.

You did not ask that question because you wanted an answer. I gave you an answer of how grace equalizes situations, of how God holds us responsible to what we have been given, not what others demand.

Your responses here in this forum is my only way of knowing you. I suspect the majority of your questions is not for the purpose of getting answers to things you don't know or to see what others think because you are genuinely interested, but to try and show up others as to how wrong you think they are.

If that is the case and you think that is love? Stick it up your jumper.
 
God doesn't have to determine both sides of the chessboard to get his end result. He's that good. Think about how many people are disillusioned or discouraged because of the belief they think “well, everybody is already in the category they're determined to be in, whether it's to be saved or lost, it can't be changed, and those who are born without God electing them to salvation have got no hope. Jesus didn't even die for them. So, they got no hope. There’s nothing they can do. They're born with a God-hating nature that doesn't even allow them to want to do anything different. They are helpless. Helpless to do anythingdifferently. And they will be condemned for all eternity for what they had no human power to do anything differently. That is extremely upsetting to a lot of people. You can say, "Well, it's what the Bible says if you're Calvinist." No, I disagree. But still that's the practicality of it. What is assumed often by Calvinists is that you can't choose to do one or the other. Well, tell that to Peter when Jesus said, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men." But yet Peter was able to go back and stop doing that.

According to Calvinism, God must have eternally decreed all decisions that man will make and choose in order for Him to be sovereign and retain ultimate sovereignty. However, that presupposes that granting man free will somehow renders Him incapable of exercising sovereignty. But a truly sovereign God does not need to do such order to accomplish His purposes. Is God not still all sovereign, all-powerful, etc etc without having to eternally decree both sides of the chessboard? If not, why not?
replace Calvinism with God in a couple of sentences you implied but didn't word it correctly, and you might make sense m.

Some of things you write is nothing but fantasies, which are not true of John Calvin whose work was devoted to caring for people struggling in there walk.
 
Millions never heard the Gospel before the Cross. Millions never heard the name of Jesus before the Incarnation. You want to try telling me none of those got saved or they had less opportunity to be saved?

It is not absurd, grace is the equalizer. I gave you the scriptures. You cannot bargain with God's grace and get more than what God is willing to give and what He gives is from the goodness of His heart.

What's absurd is you trying to limit the heart of God to a formula of salvation.

The more you speak, the more convinced I become, you don't know grace and you don't know the heart of God.
Most people before the cross were not saved. Generally a remnant in Israel and a few others like Rahab and Ruth.

It's not that I don't believe the grace of God could not reach every person. God can do all things. But to say it has been doled out equally is simply false.

Impugning another's character may actually be evidence that one doesn't know the grace of God.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rogerg
God elects the saved, He does not save the Elect.

Wrong. No one can save themselves. Christ alone is Savior.

[1Pe 1:2-3 KJV]
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
 
well the church leaders and pastors are fully aware to live by the authority of God

Who should I listen to more a voice on the internet or a church leader telling me there is not one single church called a calvinist church.

giphy.gif

giphy.gif



giphy.gif

giphy.gif

John-Calvin-Churches-Search-0001.gif





Calvin.png
https://calvincrcrv.org/

Calvin Church 02.png

https://www.johncalvinchurch.org/

Calvin_School_optimized_1000.png

https://www.calvinchristian.school/

giphy.gif





....
 
Wrong. No one can save themselves. Christ alone is Savior.

[1Pe 1:2-3 KJV]
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
she definitely got that one back to front m 👍

Elect means you where elected to be given adoption to the son at a point in your life only known in God before the foundations of the world.

Looks like where back to square one again 😂
 
  • Like
Reactions: rogerg
she definitely got that one back to front m 👍

Elect means you where elected to be given adoption to the son at a point in your life only known in God before the foundations of the world.

Looks like where back to square one again 😂

Agreed, Jordon, definitely is back to front - her post is completely illogical.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jordon
If Calvinism is consistent, then if God unchangeably determines every thought, motive, and deed, then Calvinists can't just give him credit for the good things. He may decree them in different ways. He has a secondary means for ways for one thing and for another he decrees it differently. But He’s still unchangeably decreeing all of it. And there is no human power for any human being to do anything differently. And by the way, that would include Adam. And so, that makes him the author of sin [when you take Calvinism consistently and logically]. In Calvinism, even the first evil intention, even the one in Satan's heart, Satan had no control. He had to do it. He had to want to do it. Whatever it is, you have to be consistent. And Calvinists are inconsistent. If they are going to give God the credit for all the good things, they have to give him the credit for all the bad things, which ultimately is saying He is the author of sin, that makes Him evil. And that’s why Calvinism is a blasphemous heretical faith and system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OLDBUTNEW
do you mind if I call you Rocky for a reason that I can only describe as out for the count 🤩

Thank you. I will take that as a compliment.
Just know that if you want to research anything within seconds, Google.com and Perplexity.ai can be your friends.
Granted, in some cases you have to double check those sources of course.




....
 
  • Like
Reactions: OLDBUTNEW