Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[sawdust]

If for once you could actually answer clear instruction it might not feel as if I'm ranting

If for once you actually made any sense I might be able to make a clear answer but you don't.

You can't answer the question even when the answer is in the verse I gave you.

Emotion is a function of the soul, not the body. The body expresses the pain we feel (ie through tears etc) it does not have it's source there. The bodies in hell will be burned to ash so no nerve endings, no physical pain only emotional pain of the soul.

I said the mind is in the soul in the very post you quoted but you make nonsense responses like "if the soul has no mind", something I have never even remotely intimated is true.

The soul is who we are, all we think and value and desire.

You seem to get very confused between the function of the physical body and the function of the immaterial soul.

you just want to make things fit it not my fault I can't agree with what your saying ..mind body and soul is what I just showed you.

What you showed made no sense. There is nothing about any "seed" in the verse.

I want to make things fit? You bet. Fit what the scriptures are actually saying not some mumbo jumbo ranting.

Have a nice day.

 

[sawdust]

I don't know about you, but I think bananas have a beautiful nature! Evil does not lurk within them!

On this we can agree. My favourite fruit.

 

[Blue155]

@cv5 Zech. 7:12,Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the LORD of hosts.

 

[Jordon]

If for once you actually made any sense I might be able to make a clear answer but you don't.

You can't answer the question even when the answer is in the verse I gave you.

Emotion is a function of the soul, not the body. The body expresses the pain we feel (ie through tears etc) it does not have it's source there. The bodies in hell will be burned to ash so no nerve endings, no physical pain only emotional pain of the soul.

I said the mind is in the soul in the very post you quoted but you make nonsense responses like "if the soul has no mind", something I have never even remotely intimated is true.

The soul is who we are, all we think and value and desire.

You seem to get very confused between the function of the physical body and the function of the immaterial soul.



What you showed made no sense. There is nothing about any "seed" in the verse.

I want to make things fit? You bet. Fit what the scriptures are actually saying not some mumbo jumbo ranting.

Have a nice day.

This is nothing more than a rant, which again you never answered clear logical text proof.

all you did was answer what you could find fault in,

You would rather reason with free will, which is absolute head shrink, but also you would rather reason with idealism, only Gods word can give you the answers to your question you can't prove anything about your soul by having empathy for your soul or others

Only his word does, and you had clear proof that the soul is fully accountable to God, but because your to busy supporting you other ranting friend genez who also thinks he has all the answers to everything,. your cutting of your own nose to spite your face.

Anyhow enjoy your day, but if I was you which I'm not I would wise up.

 

[Jordon]

“Gnostics denied Free Will, and affirmed Total Depravity, Original Sin and Determinism. They also used the word “elect” to denote the teachers, in contrast to the “hearers.” Later, after conversion, the former Gnostic, Augustine, coincidentally “discovered” a hearty Determinism in Scripture. Augustine was very careful not to quote or cite any particular Gnostic, and no quote from any early Church father was ever used in support of his newly discovered Determinism. Gnostic writings are no longer extant, and much of what is known of the battle over Free Will, comes primarily from the early Church fathers, Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, who in opposition to the Gnostics, staunchly defended Free Will, even citing such passages as Matthew 23:37 in support. Ultimately, the early Church was a very strong advocate of Free Will, that is, until the 300’s, when the former Gnostic convert, Augustine, arrived on the scene. Naturally, Calvinism is frequently accused of being the enduring remnant and legacy of Gnosticism, and just as Gnosticism was identified by knowledge (Greek: gnosis), Calvinists of today are identified as Reformed.”
— ExaminingCalvinism

no God Denys mans free will

 

[Jordon]

"In YOUR twisted version of events,"

Great apology, enjoy your misery

 

[Jordon]

If my free will didn’t matter, then I wouldn’t have used it to say it doesn’t matter what I think. And it doesn’t matter what I think, as I’m but a man. Not God.

What do I make of believers saying it is I who no longer live but the Lord?

I say, great!!!

all your doing it reasoning with logical fallacy, nothing more, you've got this picture of what free will means to you, and all your doing is believing that How God must be.

Probably down to fact like others you can do no wrong.

But you are doing plenty wrong, you've now joined the religious racism squad, it will only get worse for you from here on in.

 

[Jordon]

if it's by the grace of God who's will is it m

ok so the one who do his will are they doing his will by there own free will.

No.

So all your doing then is copy and pasting ideas and adding to them.

And the ideas your copying are ones that are intended to offend.

Seems pretty much like your free will isn't accountable.

 

[Jordon]

What you showed made no sense. There is nothing about any "seed" in the verse.


Have a nice day.

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Which means when your born of God your also born of spirit, the seed is spirit to, the seed is life to, the seed is the breath of life in mankind, Adams seed was the breath of life, the seed is also the the word which was God which is spirit.

Now we can have a long drawn out discussion about a soul not being spirit also if you want, which is probably how most head shrink discussions go.

Or you can listen to logic.

 

[sawdust]

This is nothing more than a rant, which again you never answered clear logical text proof.

all you did was answer what you could find fault in,

You would rather reason with free will, which is absolute head shrink, but also you would rather reason with idealism, only Gods word can give you the answers to your question you can't prove anything about your soul by having empathy for your soul or others

Only his word does, and you had clear proof that the soul is fully accountable to God, but because your to busy supporting you other ranting friend genez who also thinks he has all the answers to everything,. your cutting of your own nose to spite your face.

Anyhow enjoy your day, but if I was you which I'm not I would wise up.

You make no sense mate. Go back on ignore.

 

[sawdust]

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Which means when your born of God your also born of spirit, the seed is spirit to, the seed is life to, the seed is the breath of life in mankind, Adams seed was the breath of life, the seed is also the the word which was God which is spirit.

Now we can have a long drawn out discussion about a soul not being spirit also if you want, which is probably how most head shrink discussions go.

Or you can listen to logic.

You're not even on the topic of which I was speaking.

Goodby. have a nice day.

 

[Blue155]

all your doing it reasoning with logical fallacy, nothing more, you've got this picture of what free will means to you, and all your doing is believing that How God must be.

Probably down to fact like others you can do no wrong.

But you are doing plenty wrong, you've now joined the religious racism squad, it will only get worse for you from here on in.

You can believe that.

 

[Jordon]

You're not even on the topic of which I was speaking.

Goodby. have a nice day.

You can believe that.

neither one of you can answer, because your flesh which has free will born out of sin is playing the scape goat.

You can't answer simple questions with your free will, are you sure it's free will you both have or is it more like ignorance



Go and figure.

 

[Jordon]

You can believe that.

I do believe it because your the type who will believe anything

 

[Jordon]

This is what you wrote to which he responded to:

“But what would have happened if the lord didn't cloth them.

Without being loved what happens to a person who isn't living very well.
Without the name that's considered a name for the living like eve, how can you feel like living.

Did eve think her punishment had been taken away because Adam called her eve the mother of living.

Was eves spiritual existence totally secure the moment she was called eve.

Well it may have been but God coupled have looked at her whole life first spent with God . Is that a possibility ”

and so you make reference to what I wrote and no reference to his comment,.

Yep you have free will alright and it's called stinking flesh.

 

[sawdust]

neither one of you can answer, because your flesh which has free will born out of sin is playing the scape goat.

You can't answer simple questions with your free will, are you sure it's free will you both have or is it more like ignorance



Go and figure.

You have been answered. Your body does not have volition. The will is a function of your soul. You make no sense of the conversation because you go off on a tangent that was never the topic in the first place. Then you keep insisting we answer your mistaken error. Understand the topic then you might have something constructive to add to the discussion.

 

[Cameron143]

Because it's not. Why can't you hear what I'm saying? The sin nature deceives the mind (soul), not the other way round.

The sin nature resides where?

 

[Cameron143]

Where's your scripture for that? The mind in Romans 7 is loving righteousness, the sin nature in the flesh is telling it something different, hence the war. It is the mind that gives in to the flesh, not the other way round.

The spirit is willing the flesh is weak.

Luke 6:45.
What controls what? Is the flesh controlling the soul or the soul controlling the flesh when out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks? If the heart is part of the soul, then the soul is controlling the mouth. That means the soul is controlling the flesh, and not the flesh controlling the soul.

 

[HeIsHere]

Because it's not. Why can't you hear what I'm saying? The sin nature deceives the mind (soul), not the other way round.

Just so you know @sawdust those who are really skilled in proselytizing to the false doctrines of TULIP are very skilled at setting up

tangential little rabbit trails to keep people from off the main subject of TULIP and the false teaching of "regeneration preceding faith"

and limited atonement etc.,

Just a friendly fyi.

This will explain this feeling you get..

 

[HeIsHere]

Does anyone perceive the slightest hint of coercion, arm-twisting, pre-programming or other nefarious intrusions into free will or volition regarding the fact of Zacchaeus RECEIVING of the Lord Jesus JOYFULLY in these passages? And the fact that his volitional initiative was that which was crucial to the proclamation by Christ Himself of his salvation?

@Jackson129 @HeIsHere @Kroogz @Genez.......anybody?
How about @Magenta @Rufus @Cameron143? Will they postulate that, due to mysterious gnostic principles known only to them, there is embedded in this poignant missive some kind of doomer gate-slamming contrariety or unattainability barrier whereby no-one can possibly be saved if they desire it (Him)?

The way I see things, we have a "Seeker" Who is the initiator, offering the gift, and a free will "responder"......who in his heart was ALSO seeking, and then receiving the gift.


[Luk 19:1 KJV]
And [Jesus] entered and passed through Jericho.

[Luk 19:2 KJV]
And, behold, [there was] a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.

[Luk 19:3 KJV]
And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.

[Luk 19:4 KJV]
And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that [way].

[Luk 19:5 KJV]
And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.

[Luk 19:6 KJV]
And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.

[Luk 19:7 KJV]
And when they saw [it], they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.

[Luk 19:8 KJV]
And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore [him] fourfold.

[Luk 19:9 KJV]
And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

[Luk 19:10 KJV]
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

It is not really funny, but their responses are so predictable, "he was one of the elect" "he was drawn by God" does passage state that....NO it has to be inferred as all of TULIP is inferred into texts.

Of course then there is the continual and consistent misuse of the concept of "elect."